• kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    I’m in tech and “computer programmer” has always sounded to me like a grandma phrase. Like how all gaming consoles are referred to as “the Nintendo” or “the game station”.

    • That’s funny, plain “programmer” would be my preferred term if it weren’t for the fact that non-tech folks think it sounds like menial work. I’ve landed on “software engineer” because that’s what my employer calls me and other people seem to understand a little bit, too.

      • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        I was hired with the official title “software engineer,” then I was noted in all unofficial org charts as a “SE/DE” (software engineer/data engineer), and recently my boss announced that I have had my title officially changed to “data engineer”. My job functions have not changed the entire time I’ve been here. I write Python, SQL, KQL and Pyspark scripts and have to fuck around with Azure architecture sometimes. So there’s not always clear delineation between these terms, anyway.

        • odium@programming.dev
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          8 months ago

          Lol, are you me? Job application said software engineer. 3 months after I was hired, it changed to data engineer with no changes to the work I do. I wasn’t even notified, just noticed on a random day that the role on my profile on Teams had changed. I also do Python, SQL, and Pyspark scripts, but use AWS instead.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          I was hired as a Developer and a month or two in they changed our titles to Software Engineer because “It sounds better.” I’d have to say I agree!

      • floofloof@lemmy.ca
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        8 months ago

        Here in Canada you can’t call yourself an engineer unless you are a qualified and licensed engineer. So most people have to call themselves “developer”. When you see someone calling themselves a software engineer it should mean something.

  • sunbytes@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago
    • Viewport engineer.
    • Browser-space technician.
    • Microsoft painter-decorator.
    • Inferior decorator.
    • He-who-responds (on the bugs channel).
    • Scope denier.
    • Manager disappointer.
  • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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    8 months ago

    Honestly, the longer I work in tech, the less confidence I have in anyone’s title. Even searching for a job, different companies have different ideas of what, pretty much everything is…

    I’m more on the side of IT support (sysadmin/netadmim/systems engineer/network engineer/second/third level support/engineer/whatever tf)… And even looking for a job for myself, it’s a nightmare… Even mundane details about the job are messed up. I saw a posting for a “remote support technician”, by their definition, this was “remote” as in, not from an office. The job was on-site support for remote sites. I don’t even think it was an IT position, more like mechanical maintenance IIRC. So you were “remote” aka, not at their office, doing support (for something not electronic), as a “technician”.

    It’s bullshit all the way down.

    When I was last looking for a job someone commented that I had “only” applied to x positions in y weeks, when their search for (some vague title related to my usual employment) had z search results, where z was more than 10 times x. I didn’t bother replying but I couldn’t help but think, did you look at any of those postings? I literally had a search filter for jobs that was “CCNA” (Cisco certified) and I literally had administrative assistant positions coming up… Those are little better than secretarial jobs. I know because I clicked on it because maybe, just maybe they meant an assistant to the systems administrator, but no, it was exactly what it said on the tin.

    This is my frustration with IT. There are zero standards for what a job is. Developer? Is it software or something related to construction? Engineer? Are you examining the structure of something or building out IT solutions? Admin? Office admin? Systems admin? Department admin? There’s too many “admin” related jobs… “Support”? Supporting what exactly? Am I programming switchports, or is this some other kind of bullshit support.

    That’s not even getting into all the actual IT jobs that are clearly out in left field. Sysadmin jobs that require years of experience with an application that’s extremely specific to one industry; an application you could learn likely in a matter of days, which isn’t very complicated, but your resume goes in a bin if you don’t have some very specific certification and a number of years of experience with the related app… I know that because I’ve applied to such positions and didn’t even get a courtesy email telling me to pound sand.

    Which takes me to another point, you don’t get rejected. You get ghosted. They don’t want you? Fine, tell me that. You don’t even have to give me a reason, just some copy pasta about pursuing other candidates. That way I will know to not expect anything further, and keep trying. I mean, I’m going to keep trying no matter what, but still…

    The whole job market is a hellscape.

    Then, I can turn my attention to the pointless titles people have, which often don’t mean shit outside of your specific workplace. “Lead customer success technician” … Ok, wtf is that? What does any of that mean? Are you technical in the sense of working with information technology? Or is it one of the DOZENS of other “technical” things? Everyone is a technician and everyone is an engineer now. Those terms used to mean something. Now they’re just keywords to blast your resume with to try to match some AI filter so you can get a call. If you don’t play the game, your left behind.

    I feel bad for all the professional engineers out there who hold degrees in real engineering. Now anyone, everyone and their mother is calling themselves some kind of engineer. It’s all word salad and I hate it.

    • Dashi@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      In my career i have gone from Systems Engineer to professional services to Profesional services team lead to Senior Systems administrator to now just Systems administrator. All doing basically the same IT stuff at progressively higher levels other than the team lead part.

      When i was looking for my last job i applied for a remote admin job and experienced exactly what you described. I was on the third interview and was asked when i was going to move to the area and if i wanted a relocation allowance as part of the offer. Uhh what? To them a remote admin was an administrator that went to remote sites. What a waste of my time

    • GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org
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      8 months ago

      My job title has changed 5x more than my actual job. I honestly don’t even know what my current title is.

      I wonder how many man-hours (and at what average salary) has been spent deciding on title changes that have literally zero impact at my company. I’m sure every change involves meetings full of highly-paid executives.

      • OpenStars@startrek.website
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        8 months ago

        “I (want to keep my job and therefore I) AGREE WITH YOU 100%”

        They collect the big bucks, the rest of us can suck dirt - barely not able to afford a home, food, medical care, etc. Oh wait, sorry, I meant “YES SIR/MAM!”

  • Solemarc@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    I don’t know where “software engineer” started but in Australia engineers have to study for years and then do a minimum amount of study every year to keep their license. Which we don’t have to do. I’ve always been weirded out by Software Engineer even though it seems to be becoming more common.

    • noride@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Engineering is engineering. You design it, you build it, you test it. Engineering. We shouldn’t gatekeep words.

      With that said, I recognize that certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.

      • F04118F@feddit.nl
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        8 months ago

        certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.

        How long until they realize software engineering has overlap with public safety too?

      • Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz
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        8 months ago

        Single software engineer can nowadays do more harm than most of other engineers. Just one SQL injection and all the people’s personal data have been leaked. Single bug in car self driving software and the car drives in to school bus.

    • AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml
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      8 months ago

      Software engineer is an accurate term for a lot of roles. The problem is when software engineers step out of their lane and start pontificating about other engineering fields.

  • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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    8 months ago

    Funny because HR doesn’t know either and its their job. In the US, you just need to slap engineer at the end and you are golden.

  • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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    8 months ago

    I’m a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I’m also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).

        • PmMeFrogMemes@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Oh man, I didn’t think that’d work haha… Kind of you to offer but I was recently promoted and wouldn’t feel right leaving now. Partially out of respect for my boss and partially because we are severely understaffed. But seriously, thanks for offering to ask around. Very generous of you to offer your help to a stranger ❤️

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon

      Sorry to hear that. I hit the same pothole about 6 months ago. I had been so fine with avoiding JS, but the guys building our admin console broke their build and couldn’t figure out how to fix it. Even worse, then I had to write up best practices for JS

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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        8 months ago

        Yeah. Fortunately, I didn’t have to do the programming. Unfortunately, I had to guide the debug. Happy to help people learn but the language, especially in its typing, is just awful.

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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        8 months ago

        I’m a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I’m also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).

    • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      I’m learning that I’m just enough of a front end dev to make a very ugly site. Navigating all the various CSS and JS frameworks feels like pulling teeth.

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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        8 months ago

        Having a familiarity is absolutely a great thing. The syntax isn’t alien, so, debug and guiding juniors through figuring out why their project isn’t working isn’t too terrible. The typing is probably what drives me crazy the most. It’s just bad and the standard library doesn’t seem to be equipped to handle every type that it can “support” cleanly.