Raising this dead article as Microsoft now delivers extended support pricing details for those who choose not to migrate to the newer version of Windows. The one they were told they’d not ever have to migrate to
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Well I suppose they were right. Windows 10 was the last version of Windows for me. I’m okay with not using what little only works on windows. Unless you need something more niche/specialised, windows isn’t worth the pain.
I wish I felt this way. I installed SuSE Tumbleweed a while ago, and while I overall liked it, it was so finicky. My bluetooth ceased working after updating a bunch of stuff and I never got it working again. I feel like things are very rarely plug and play with Linux, something Windows has gotten pretty good at since, well at least XP.
Back when I used Linux as my daily driver, around 2007-2011 I was okay with that. Sure I had issues every so often, but I didn’t mind spending time to solve them. Nowadays when I spend 8 hours in front of the computer for work, if I want to spend more time in front of the computer it’s generally because I either want to enjoy a game, or experiment with music, what have you, and having things spontaneously crap out on me would drive me nuts.
Maybe SuSE Tumbleweed wasn’t the right choice. My thinking there was; a rolling distro will always be up-to-date, no more big OS upgrades ever, I’ll just set things up the way I like it and that’s that.
That’s really the biggest problem I think Linux has, unfortunately it’s also one of Linux’s best features - it’s not a uniform experience. Yours won’t be the same as mine, etc.
Some things that should be simple aren’t, and sometimes getting things going can be frustrating, and you will without question at some point have to troubleshoot and fix something.
I’m fortunate that I have a lot of background and experience in the industry, and I can understand people don’t want to go to that trouble, just like people don’t want to learn to cook.
Most things in Linux I find these days do plug and play to some degree, but there is absolutely missing effort and/or openness from the hardware vendors. Like not being able to configure macro keys/extra mouse buttons without a windows vm.
Having said that, I found the way windows was going, adding crap into the os that I don’t want, and constantly changing where settings are etc. Changing my defaults, and so on. There’s just too much I don’t like about the way it’s managed. Also, winsecure.
I’m fortunate that I have a lot of background and experience in the industry, and I can understand people don’t want to go to that trouble, just like people don’t want to learn to cook.
I’m kind of in that boat, it’s not that I can’t solve the issues; I’ve used Linux for years. I work as a software developer, my entire day is about solving problems, sometimes it’s IT related, CI, dependency updates, build tools that cease working properly because of it, integration scripts, migrations, etc. and sometimes it’s more of a workflow thing; how do I best implement a solution that gets a user from A to B in the smoothest way possible?
In that way I’m like a professional cook that spent all day cooking for others, so when they get home they just don’t have the energy to put all that effort into themselves.
Having said that, I found the way windows was going, adding crap into the os that I don’t want, and constantly changing where settings are etc. Changing my defaults, and so on. There’s just too much I don’t like about the way it’s managed. Also, winsecure.
I can get behind this 100%, which is doubly funny because I make my money as a .NET developer. I work with various Microsoft platforms on a daily basis. As a developer the experience is honestly really comfy, they’ve done a good job there. Teams can fucking go die though. What a nightmare product.
In that way I’m like a professional cook that spent all day cooking for others, so when they get home they just don’t have the energy to put all that effort into themselves.
Funny that, I’m a Linux admin. I actually run my own servers for everything. I’m a firm believer in whoever owns the hardware owns the data. It’s just like work but with tools that I like. I like knowing where it is, and it’s not going to end the world if it’s offline for a time.
I did windows admin for about 5 years though up to 2008r2, and I have to say I do like AD and ntfs ACLs (except when they break). Those times do contribute to my aversion.
I too know a thing or two about developing, back in the day I did C, pascal, C++. I remember how much easier delphi was than mfc. I got out of developing when they started dumbing down the tools further (why didn’t you die, java… C#, etc.) Electron can’t die in a dumpster fire fast enough.
Don’t start me on teams. I’d say the same for o365 though. Hard to believe these products make me want work to go back to lotus notes, domino, sametime…
If you install Linux on any sort of proprietaryish system. Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. You need to expect to have some issues. And it’s not linux’s fault.
If you want to have a smooth “just works” experience with Linux. Either buy a system made to run it. System 76, tuxedo etc. Or build it yourself if you have the know how.
You wouldn’t try to install Mac OS on a non Mac and expect it to work flawlessly. We shouldn’t expect that of Linux either. It often still does. But that’s besides the point.
My favorite laptop to use right now A 2017 HP elitebook with an AMD chipset. The Bluetooth is indeed a bit of a problem unfortunately. But if I took the time to source a decent Intel m.2 upgrade board. It would be flawless apart from the fingerprint sensor which will never work. But again, that’s not linux’s fault.
Make the investment into a compatible system and you won’t regret it.
I don’t get why you’re being downvoted because these are in general good tips.
I assembled my PC myself, off the shelf parts of course (I don’t really do electronics) but it’s not a locked down SOC or anything like that. My first foray into Linux with it was a bit too early because the kernel on the OS I tried hadn’t been updated to support my CPU. That was a bit of a headscratcher because the problems manifested in an interesting way.
It doesn’t change the fact that setting things up with Linux is a lot of extra manual work, which at some point the benefits of doing it will outweigh the inconvenience of it, but I’ve not reached that point yet.
Probably a tonal issue on my part. Not intentional. But it’s happened before. Combined with the fact that despite my advice being sound. It’s far from an ideal solution for a number of people. Not everyone can buy online, and many don’t have the interest or aptitude to procure and assemble themselves. And it sucks that there isn’t a better option. Brick and mortars etc providing an option.
I have run Linux on systems from every major SI. Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, IBM etc. Tower wise these days it’s fairly foolproof outside network or graphics interfaces. Realtek is a mess. And Nvidia IS getting better, but still shits the bed badly when I try to use it with Wayland and the software I want to use. Which is getting to be issue enough that I’m de-nvidifying where possible till Nvidia gets it together.
Laptops are a special hell though. Malfunctioning/non functioning screen controls, IO, and peripherals that can’t be replaced etc. The next laptop I buy will be one built with Linux compatibility in mind. I’m getting to the point myself that while I can chase down and fix issues. I would rather it just fully worked. Replacing the m.2 network interfaces on systems that allow it is great and all. But at my age my eyesight is getting to where attaching the antenna leads is very challenging.
Haha, you remind me of a brief period in 2014-ish when I tried to use Linux on an AMD laptop. It was a complete nightmare, nothing even remotely similar to my current issues with SuSE Tumbleweed. Fans going haywire, backlight issues, overheating. Gosh.
I’ve heard good things about the System76 laptops, it’s definitely enticing. Though I’m also interested in those modular Framework laptops, but they’re not available in my country.
I like the concept of framework as well. Though my understanding is they are generally compatible with Linux. But that isn’t a design goal with them. Still supposed to be a pleasant experience though. System 76 at least has Linux as a first class citizen. Even updating the BIOS from inside Linux. But either way it will be a much better experience than buying something like a Dell laptop or similar.
Okay, let’s test this theory. Recommend me a reasonable mouse and keyboard, that have working Linux support, and I can buy them at a reasonable store. Do the same with a webcam.
Yeah, same for me. I’m using the time between now and paying for updates to do research on what distro I want to try to learn… I’ve used Ubuntu a long time ago, but I’m not sure that’s exactly what I want.
I’ll probably get down voted to oblivion, but I remember EVERYONE had the same “I’ll never move” rhetoric with Windows 7, and before that Windows XP. Ya’ll eventually move.
I’ve moved 3 of my 6 windows boxes from 10 to 11 and it’s not that much different. I just debloat the stuff I don’t want and move on. Even that isn’t different, ya’ll remember nlite? We’ve been ripping crap we didn’t want out of the OS for as long as I can remember.
Hell, I even remeber getting doublespace.exe off my old dos 5 disks so I could use it on my dos 6 and Windows 3.1.1 install. People who use Windows are just more used to tearing down what they don’t want rather than building up what they do (*nix). Is it harder these days…marginally…is there more to remove…yup. But it’s still the same crap we’ve always done.
The difference this time is that my computer literally can’t run Win 11. I’m not throwing away a perfectly good PC just because of Win 11’s hardware requirements.
Especially not for such enragingly artificial hardware requirements. Any computer able to run 64-Bit Win XP would probably run Windows 11 just fine if Microsoft hadn’t decided to build instructions that only work on recent CPUs into the kernel specifically to make it not run on older hardware.
Assuming Microsoft is acting nefarious here, what would there motivation be to lock out older hardware?
To sell new hardware with new OEM windows licenses
Or in future be able to block programs they don’t like or that are modified in a way they don’t like. Or be like android and lock it down so you can’t be admin without losing ability to use applications
They could probably reduce the support needed for drivers that support said older hardware. I would imagine some of those drivers are probably hard to maintain. That’s my guess anyway.
If you still need/want to run Windows 11, you can download the ISO from Microsoft, and burn it to an USB Stick using Rufus.
Rufus lets you disable all those requirements.But I wouldn’t count on it working forever. Any Update could break your OS, cause Microsoft expects you to install it on conforming hardware.
If I wanted an operating that could break from a regular update I’d just install Arch!
What breaks Arch is people thinking
pacman -Syuis enough to keep it running.
So I WAS on 11 until all of the sudden my computer refused to boot with the special hardware thing enabled. Had to downgrade to Windows 10 and the mobo manufacturer’s response was ‘try replacing every other part in your PC’…sorry I don’t have the money to have spare parts of everything just lying around. 10 works perfectly fine, and it’ll give me an excuse to upgrade my mobo in Oct 2025. :-)
Ya’ll eventually move.
Yeah, I moved to Linux.
Me thinks Lemmy isn’t great at representing the larger world. Lots of tech folks here.
Yes, it’s SysAdminWorld for sure, and I’m reminded of it on any post that’s even remotely tangentially related to Windows.
I remember EVERYONE had the same “I’ll never move” rhetoric with Windows 7
I did eventually move… to Linux. Windows 7 was the last version of Windows I’ve had installed on any machine I own.
Dude stop reminding me how old I am. I just discovered arthritis bones that my favorite grandma decided to give me this morning.
Cheers mate!
I completely forgot about doublespace and all the XX-DOS stuff was when I was a teen. Had fun messing around with DR-DOS and wish I would have found Linux back then.
Why is windows still bloated after all these decades?
Did you expect them to remove features over time?
They removed the Quick Launch toolbar in Win11 - main reason I didn’t even consider moving.
I have just recently discovered a way to bring it back, but it’s not exactly optimal.
“Features” lmfao!
In all seriousness, remove actual beneficial features? No. Remove the shit that people have been complaining about for ages? Yes, but I guess we are all in on losing people eventually.
I moved away, but not to newer windows.
I never upgraded from Win 7. I used in untill Steam stopped its support and now my gaming rig runs on Linux.
Well, if you’re sticking with Windows, you really have no choice. The sun is rapidly setting on using Windows 7 as a “daily driver” - a lot of new software doesn’t support it and the older versions that work on Windows 7 are getting less and less viable. Windows 8 is in the same boat as Windows 7. Windows 10 goes out of support next year, but you’ve probably got to 2028 or maybe 2029 before you really have to move.
I ended up riding Windows 7 pretty much to the bitter end. Steam dropping Windows 7 support last December was it for the last Windows box. Everything now is running Linux.
Windows 10 is the last version of Windows (that I am going to use)
I had to use windows yesterday. Public computer at a print shop.
Everything was shades of white, the scroll bar was barely visible, when I enlarged a window the ux elements scaled up, and there was already tons of dead ui space, so I assumed there weren’t any more to show. Also, every program, even though they were all Microsoft, gave a different screen when I hit control p.
I couldn’t figure out how to adjust paper size. Ive been using computers since 199(2/3), when I could barely talk. Ive used legacy systems older than me-for industrial shit, for novelty. I grew up mostly a MS-DOS then windows girl. I’ve installed arch. Ive run arch successfully as a daily driver, then moved to qubes for a few years. I have systems so hacked together, I need to lick a bit of wire I connected poorly to trigger a thing (3v, its fine) I currently have a dead bug soldered project sitting half finished next to me (the hardware is done, works, I’m just bad at code), in a room that could mostly pass for the set of a live action ‘serial experiment lain’ remake.
And I couldn’t adjust print settings on modern windows. Because it’s just that garbage. Two days ago I wasnt a fanatical Linux partisan. I think I am now.
I replied to your other post and this was below so don’t feel compelled to type it again up there.
Right sorry saw this in the other screen assumed you were responding to this one.
I guess I’ve confused things a bit.
Well if your solution to craptacular useless ux is ‘get gud’, which was sort of implied, then you sound like a certain kind of arch user. Just install that on your primary machine; I’m sure it’ll be fine.
You have to understand technology is constantly evolving, which requires upgrades to allow utilization those technologies.
So they probably needed the upgrade for a new EULA, to allow for improved shenanigans built right into Windows, that will be a huge benefit to Microsoft, and would allow closer more invasive monitoring of your system, but wouldn’t be legal without the new EULA.
Very legal and very cool. 🤑And the thing of it is, millions of non-tech savvy people would not mind about having to move to Windows 11 and would do so in due course if Microsoft didn’t deliberately cripple it so it won’t run on a wide swath of not-too-old hardware.
They make your machine slow to you need to replace it. People now see computers and phones as almost disposable
Designed obsolescence should be fucking illegal.
On the one hand I understand that it is expensive to keep providing support. However, that should not be an excuse. If the company does not want to support it they should have community support. We need more homegrown support and operating systems
They didn’t even do that here, they just flat out blacklisted old CPU in the installer.
Everyone that was paying attention to the Microsoft Windows support lifecycle web page back then knew that statement was horse shit.
Well, on one hand you had one line in a table in a formal web page.
On the other, you had that very awkward phrasing (if he merely meant ‘latest’):
because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,
But maybe that was a misunderstanding and he did mean ‘latest’, but in the flurry of internet coverage, Microsoft never issued a statement highlighting the misunderstanding. Instead they let that run rampant.
In fact, it was very consistent with a lot that happened with Windows 10:
- The mass “free to upgrade for everyone going back to 7” toward the goal of getting their userbase largely on a consistent vintage that is more supportable
- The twice a year major updates that were pitched as ‘new features and functions’, with a more ‘rolling release’ feel
So while certainly that one lifecycle page did have it stated, I have to wonder why Microsoft was mum on the subject even as their community was ‘getting it wrong’. I wouldn’t be surprised if the reality is that they were seriously considering it. That guy might have even meant ‘last’ because he thought the ‘eternal update’ camp were going to win out.
It’s funny how media widely misreported this, but what’s not funny is that people believe that to this day. Even in this thread people think Microsoft said that.
The quote is in the article:
Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,
They obviously meant Windows 10 is the latest version of Windows, but I guess misconstruing the quote got the clicks and then everyone went along. There was never any announcement from Microsoft, all of the “Windows 10 is the final version of Windows” thing is based on misconstruing the quote. If a reporter really believed this interpretation to be the case, it would be easy to just ask Microsoft, but they didn’t. Or did, got the “lol no of course it’s not last” answer and ignored it because that would make their clickbait article go away.
I don’t think that’s a fair interpretation, I think Microsoft absolutely intended what they said here, that Windows 10 was the last version of Windows. Hence the shift in development strategy. Annual breaking updates rather than new full releases, the new month-year versioning cycle, free for anyone with a valid Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 license.
I think the goal was to eventually drop the “10” and for it to just be Windows as a service, where major versions don’t really matter and the UX slowly evolves over time rather than in one big change.
Then, something happened. Obviously this is purely speculative, but I suspect either the executive championing this strategy left, or they saw it cutting into their profits more than they anticipated, or enterprises complained about frequent breaking updates, who knows. Then Windows 11 appeared out of nowhere. The signalling from MS for enterprise was clear. Stop monolithic imaging and site-wide rollouts, instead test applications with a pilot group and then push the annual releases wide if no issues are found.
I definitely think something changed. While you’re right that this is the only quote supporting it directly, when asked in follow-ups Microsoft went out of its way to NOT deny the statement or confirm it. If the plan was the status quo, they would have just said “we have not changed our release model at this time” but they didn’t. They knew full well that based on how widely reported that quote was, people would infer that it was the strategy. If they felt so strongly that it was just a simple misspeaking, they would have said so.
Windows 11 is technically still Windows 10, if you go by the actual version reported by the
systeminfocommand. For example, my fully updated Windows 11 Pro VM reports itself asOS Version: 10.0.22631, so there might still be something to the idea that “Windows 10 is the last version” but the marketing and branding teams didn’t stay on the same message.That version number is pretty meaningless though. If you look at version numbers, vista, 7 and 8 were all 6.x. I’m pretty sure they do numbering based on some underlying architecture feature, and when it changes enough they change the major version number.
Yep. The fact that Windows 11 exists ought to be a clue.
What??? When was anyone gonna SAY something!!!
Longhorn (pre-reset) was my last version of windows back in 2004. after that mess, i refused to ever go back.
Windows 7 was peak Windows experience IMO, and to follow it up win Windows 8…
I still remember my first windows 7 install. I remember my wallpaper. It was winter. I rocked a digital blasphemy snowman wallpaper. Shortly after, doom 3 was released. The amount of counter strike I played on there was problematic. I remember installing like a game desktop where it was an fps and I could arrange things and walk to different rooms of a house which were just folders of shortcuts and shit. Lol. It was neat for a bit.
So nostalgic now.
Better times, friend. Better times.
I consider Windows 7 the last good version, but I still consider Windows 2000 to be when Microsoft was at the top of their game.
Windows 7 is awful
It was their last good OS.
Still proprietary spyware, it looks awful and it is bloated.
Let’s agree to disagree
It’s shit compared to XP, but it’s wonderful when compared to 11, or even 10.
Far enough
They are both right.
The last [good] version of Windows.
That would be 7. With 10 Microsoft went heavily into the snooping business.
The telemetry of Windows 10 back in 2015 ain’t got jack shit on the adware craziness they got years later
The LTSC version of Windows 10 is pretty good, relatively. No bloat or ads.
8.1 is a faster version of 7 that also has some compatibility with apps that are said to require 10. Just disable those metro things and use your favorite app for start menu.
I’m glad I have finally seen someone else who appreciates windows 8 (or at least is willing to admit it). People just lose their shit when there are any changes to the start menu, but the best start menu is to not have one at all.
Windows 8 has way better hotkeys (limit seaeching to files, programs, or applications) compared to the unified search in newer versions.
Actually I’m a fan of having a start menu but I also used some other apps and launchers, even a dock (RocketDock is one of the most useful apps for me and it’s a shame it never received the x64 version).
Used 8.1 for years and didn’t need to reinstall it even once. I appreciate it for its technical side. From what I understand it was developed together with the mobile version so it’s somewhat lighter on resources. It also lacks aero which adds to that.
The only reason I still have Windows are a few games that don’t work properly on Linux (via Steam Proton) yet.
I will keep Windows 10 until Steam no longer supports it or all my games run well on Linux (I check for that occasionally). IDGAF about no longer getting security updates as I have moved everything except for those few games to Linux years ago.
I multibox a certain game and that is something proton simply can’t handle. It’s only designed with a single game in mind so each instance runs it’s own layer which quickly eats up resources that are never freed up.
if I’m ever forced to upgrade my base system I guess the first thing I’ll do is try my game in a windows VM
Windows 11 for work, 10 for the games that don’t work on manjaro.
I must be in the minority that actually prefers 11 to 10
My PC is 10, my laptop for work is now 11. It’s the same. I guess I’m just not a power user but it operates exactly the same for me. I wouldn’t update from 10, but I wouldn’t not buy 11.
Technically both are 10, but I do like the new UI on 11.
Are you saying 11 is just a reskinning? Or are you saying my laptop is 10?
Windows 11 does report its version number as 10. The latest release of Windows 11 is 10.0.22631.3374 but I don’t know enough to say it is just a reskinning of Windows 10.
Appreciate the clarification. It sure feels like something after the period, not before.
I am mostly a Linux user (surprise, Lemmy!) but recently started a new job. Given the choice of a Windows laptop vs a Macbook Pro, I took the latter, despite my long-time distaste for Apple.
I do not, even in a work setting, even want to touch Windows 11 in any recurring capacity (yes, I did try it – at my last role).
i moved pirated ltsc. my free w10 licence burned but its ok :D
I had to upgrade to Win 11 today ;(
Hyper-V configuration version 9.3 and above is not available on Win 10.
And yes I know about Linux, my laptop runs it. But I’m not in the mood of migrating a fuck ton of stuff to another OS. I have around 20 TB of storage on my PC and redoing everything should be a pain.
I also don’t want to forget my Windows knowledge overtime.
I will absolutely disable as much bullshit as possible though. I didn’t even have web search in the search bar in win 10 (because it broke the search bar, but still).
Had to use win11 yesterday.
It was completely unusable fucking trash and even the ux was terrible.
If it helps, my media drives transferred straight over to Linux when I cleaned by last windows device.
Yeah, I actually liked the start menu in Win 10. Very customizable and usable if you actually spend some time to set it up.
Now the start menu is barebone bullshit.
Even the visuals; no contrast, no style, no visual economy, no virtue of any kind.
Well at least it’s better than Gnome, lol.
Its honestly not. I would rather use gnome than win11.
I didn’t even like old gnome.
I really dislike gnome (obviously) so pretty much anything is better. Win 11 isn’t that bad. It’s in some ways worse than Win 10 but it’s not close to Gnome bad IMO of course.
I run KDE on my laptop (and steam deck) and it’s very nice.
It really is that bad tho.
It was completely unusable fucking trash and even the ux was terrible.
How do you say this with a straight face. I know, just know, you want to push Linux, it’s a must here on Lemmy, but to say it’s unusable trash does more to denigrate my opinion of your opinion than my opinion of the OS. It functions substantially similar to W10.
I want to truly know what you mean. What did you try to do but were 100% prohibited doing due to W11?
Read what I wrote, dear. I answered literally all your questions.
You couldn’t figure out how to change paper size. Seems like operator error.
But the ux was so bad, I described many of the ways it was bad.
If your solution is ‘get gud’, might I recommend you install arch?
It isn’t get good. I’m sure you’re more than capable of figuring it out. It just feels like, a long with so many other similar posts, shit in windows because windows bad. And I’m as nostalgic for XP and 98 as many people on here are, in the same way I’m nostalgic for many other things that happened during my formative years, but to go to say windows is unusable is just completely counter to my person experience, which is that windows has removed some power user features over the past 20 years, but remains largely the same. I also don’t use it the way I used to.
Setting up a Linux box for me would just be a hobbyist exercise, and so I may, I will, just haven’t gotten around to it yet.
This isnt power user shit. Its GUI printing a document.
The ux was actively terrible. Yeah I was sad when I had to uninstall 7; nothing worked with it anymore. But I went into 11 and it was just completely terrible. Youre a boiled frog, friend.
I cannot think of a ux mistake they didn’t make. And there’s no fucking excuse; it’s the flagship product of a multi billion dollar company! And it wasnt even pretty to look at!
I’m not a Linux partisan because Linux is good. I’m a Linux partisan because Linux, at the very least, isnt getting actively worse over time. Its not losing features. Its not being dumbed down. You don’t need to tolerate this week’s added bullshit corporate bloat.
I wish to fuck I could still be using windows 7, but I can’t. Windows is dead. So Linux it is.
Should still make the switch imo lol
Yeah, I guess. It’s just too much work.
Maybe when I can finally afford to offload all the Plex and piracy tools and especially the media content from the PC to a server. I could also migrate all the services to docker but docker on Windows is a bit annoying to use.
Another factor is that I’m honestly pretty good with Windows and I can fix most issues easily so Windows just works.
Linux mostly just works out of the box, but fixing issues is more complicated for me on Linux and issues have been comparatively common on my Linux laptop.
I also like to do stuff on my PC which can be more complicated to Linux due to a lack of support. Gaming primarily but that is getting much better, I also like to try some professional software occasionally and those often don’t work on Linux.
But all things considered I really like Linux, I just won’t migrate my main PC any time soon.
Move over Arch, I am the rolling release right now
