People are realizing they’re just dieing for some other pricks profit?
In the run up to WW2, the US government made a very big deal of socially incentivizing military enlistment. The GI Bill offered education and housing benefits. Military work was competitive with the private sector and you had lots of off-ramps into the civilian side of the government. Military families enjoyed local prestige, particularly in the officer’s corps, so it was a good stepping stone up the socio-economic ladder. And the military operated as a strong network for business advancement, both as a military contractor and as a civilian with a tight-knit social circle of ex-military friends and neighbors.
All of that has been dissolving since the Vietnam Era. Soldiering isn’t considered a particularly noble profession. The pay is shit. The benefits have been cut back enormously. Enlisted pay is worse than service sector work and military families often live in poverty. There’s no real path to career advancement and enormous liabilities that come with 5+ years working around dangerous military equipment.
40 years ago, you could make a litany of arguments for why military service was personally advantageous. Today? The only reason to join is because you’ve got a shot at some brass, and even then you’d be way better off angling for a high paying civilian role.
They tired to get me to join because I had to take asvab to graduate and got a good score. I’m really surprised I didn’t. Almost thirty years later I’m probably more poor then I would have been but I don’t have PTSD and I’m not a monster… So that’s nice
I can’t speak to everyone’s experience, but I did my 4 and got out in 2020 due to a physical injury. While I was in it wasn’t great, but my wife and I collectively made about 100k/year with her as a teacher, we lived pretty well.
Since I got out, I attend school for free, receive a housing stipend, don’t pay property taxes, receive free healthcare, and I’ll receive about $50k this year in tax free disability. My kids and wife will have tuition if they decide to go (back) to school and they all receive free health insurance.
I don’t think there’s a lack of incentives at all, but simply people don’t know of the benefits they can receive. No one sits down with them and explains it all and we end up with vets with PTSD on the streets because of it
Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like some (a lot) of your benefits are from your injury/disability?
Are you saying everyone should get disabled coming out of the military in order to collect benefits?
There’s no doubt that I beat up my body while I was in the service, but no more than most tradesman do in their first years of life. I still train jiu jitsu regularly and am capable of doing most things (save for running).
You’re correct in assuming that I receive some of my benefits due to my disabilities, such as my property taxes and my disability payments, but lots of benefits are available to those without any disability rating.
Some of the non disability related benefits include:
Education benefits via the post 9/11 GI Bill cover 4 years of schooling and provide a housing stipend during your time in school.
Education benefits for your family via Chapter 35
Access to the VA Loan program, which is a federally guaranteed loan. I used one to buy my house and did not have to pay a down payment
Again I am considered a disabled veteran, so some of the benefits I gain from that are:
Education benefits via Chapter 31, which is what I’m using currently to receive my bachelor’s. It’s similar to the GI Bill, but will pay for trade school as well
Health benefits: I am 100% disabled, so I receive free healthcare from the VA, but I’m also eligible for CHAMPVA health insurance, which is what my family is under
Disability pay: I get paid at the 100% rate, which is about $50k a year. There are lower rates all the way down to 10%, which is $171.23/ month. You can be awarded 10% for something as simple as tinnitus, which I assure you everyone in the Army has.
Property tax exemptions: a lot of states will exempt you from some or all of your property taxes if you’re a disabled veteran, which lowered my house payment by $400.
All of my injuries are what I would call “wear and tear”, I have shin splints and back pain and what have you, things that everyone gets on their way to their 30s regardless. I’m just lucky enough to have been in a place where I can receive compensation for that wear and tear. The only exception to my injuries that most people won’t have is a genetic blood clotting condition that I’ll be on thinners for for the rest of my life, but they only awarded me 20% for that.
You also don’t need to be 100% disabled to collect these benefits, things like Chapter 31 are given out pretty liberally, and property tax exemptions are usually pretty well laid out.
All this to say that while yes some benefits are locked behind a disability rating, you will receive one for regular wear and tear on your body
What are you on about?
I was in 2011-2016 (enlisted) and it was a great start to my career.
When I was in we made plenty to live on and save up. I got into a job that translated well to the civilian side and I now make over 250k a year without a degree. Not that I couldn’t pay for it, because that would also not cost me anything if I chose to do it.
Try recommending this to people complaining about their lack of options on Lemmy and you’ll get crucified because they don’t like the military.
Damn man, I need to get into whatever field you’re in.
IT support has an extremely wide range of pay. Cloud support pays much better.
I’ll be graduating at the end of summer, hopefully I’ll have a cybersecurity position with the school I’m at
Ahh well in that case you may already be on your way.
Not the ultra patriots, they think other people’s kids are dieing to keep us safe from … Communism? Socialism? Something like that?
Whatever it is, they are brown skinned and that’s important
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This is a shortage I can get behind.
Good.
They won’t stop then they’re out, they’ll just draft people who didn’t sign up for this shit and force them to fight to the death.
Meh. They may not want someone around who willingly goes against orders. Didn’t sign up for it, won’t put up with it for long, that’s for damn sure. One way or another.
Didn’t stop them in Viet Nam
Almost like we’re sick of killing each other for the gains of the wealthy and powerful.
Wars are getting more common and militaries are building up. There’s just one thing missing.
Yeah I don’t think so. Or at least, the wealthy and powerful don’t give a shit what we think
It’s that latter, the people in power only want us to think they care, so they can retain said power.
Conscription is the only option many governments have (including possibly, one a draft-dodging Trump-led presidency is considering). The rest of the world is not like Finland. If conscription becomes the norm, anti-establishment actions will become more commonplace.
As an American, I’m all for forced conscription.
Only because it forces people who otherwise try to be “not political, teehee” and pretend our corrupt, captured, failing nation is fine to wake the fuck up and revolt.
For the record, in normal times, I think there should be mandatory national service for a year, but I don’t agree a year of service has to be or even should be military. There should be a strong peace core that builds housing for the homeless, provides community services, etc.
I think it would give the US what it most needs and lacks almost entirely: empathy. Especially for our worst off, most suffering citizens.
There should be a strong peace core that builds housing for the homeless, provides community services, etc.
I wonder if you could work out a system where you could work it off in hospitals cleaning bed pans, helping nurses/doctors/patients with things that don’t require the doctors and nurses (like bringing blankets and stuff;); and in return getting 2 years free towards becoming a doctor/nurse.
Do the same with lawschool and helping public defenders with… stuff. or other fields that benefit society, too. If none of that really interests you… then building housing, cleaning parks, and, er, other stuff.
reward: two years tuition.
Skin in the game has a way of bringing reality into sharp relief, don’t you find?
I was thinking something along those lines would be cool too, pretty much anything you could volunteer for would be a great start.
Just change that to goes to help out on the farms and it’s literal Mao Zedong
Not everything bad people did was bad.
That idea was definitely bad. Let’s get people who don’t give a shit, don’t have the skills to do work
This is kinda how I feel when liberals keep arguing for Biden. What I hear them saying is “Vote for Biden because at least he’s only making THEIR life miserable… Trump will make MY life miserable! (And I might actually have to start caring!)”
It sucks that people only care about the world’s misery when they are personally threatened, but since that seems to be the way it is, maybe letting Trump make everyone miserable will speed things along a bit/get more people to wake up and fight back?
(Mostly playing devil’s advocate here… I do think we should be trying to stop Trump… Just wish the DNC was trying too)
Good! Put “the world leaders” in a Thunderdome arena and let them fight it out. Why should anyone else fight their petty squabbles?
When I was a kid, I was invited to a middle school dance by a girl in my neighborhood. I wasn’t into her, but I said yes to be nice. Took her to get food, then to the dance. It was at her school, so I didn’t know ANYONE there. Got there, asked her to dance, and in her exuberance, she accidentally bumped behinds with another girl dancing nearby. Well, you would’ve thought that my date had snatched her weave and spat in her face with how this girl reacted. She started yelling, pushing my date, and eventually called over a group of guys to beat me up. Suddenly I’m surrounded by 5 guys all at least a head taller than me. I’m still proud of my response.
I started talking to the lead guy, who was towering over me, told him we were dancing, that my date accidentally bumped his date. I said “I’m not mad, you’re not mad, we’ve never even seen each other before. These two women we’re with? THEY’RE the ones who are mad. They want somebody to fight, so let THEM do it! I don’t give a shit about any of this!”
He looked at me, looked at his girl (who was now much quieter), nodded his head, and walked off.
I react similarly to wars my country’s government starts. “Oh, you guys are big mad and want somebody to fight them? Ok, here’s a weapon, have at it!”
Oops. Putin/Xi/Kim won. Now what?
Kill them anyway
Yeah, I bet.
Just walk up to them and kill them, you don’t need an army to do it…
That’s crazy how all of those people are alive today simply because no one wants to kill them.
Yeah it’s wild, but thankfully this thread told me we don’t need an army any more, so I have to assume they’ve stopped being murderous dictators. Life is great happy happy happy
Ignore him.
Sure
Government says there’s no more draft… Just a registry for boys who could be drafted…not that it’s gonna happen.
So rest assured, there’s no more draft, until Congress implements a new draft
You say that like they’re trying to hide it, but it’s literally the stated purpose of the Selective Service registration. Nothing surreptitious about it.
Yes. That’s how it’s been since we left Vietnam. Good job. You cracked the case.
There is a draft. making life unliveable until someone joins the ranks. The whole ‘we’ll pay for your college’ whilst making education unattainable in any other way is a draft.
This shit was clever and insightful for twenty minutes in 1995
Good. Everyone should take a note from Phill Ochs and sing ‘I aint marching anymore’
What if war was declared and nobody showed?
Phil Ochs was absolutely amazing and had such a beautiful voice. It’s a shame he’s not more well-known.
Despite an unfortunate line about supporting Mao, “I’m Going to Say it Now” is still a terrific song about student protest. I wonder if someone could come up with a better line?
Phil Ochs does not need to be recuperated. He said what he said.
I meant as a song sung today.
No bad. You don’t need soldiers to attack you need them to deny area. No soldiers ≠ no war/conflict.
The powers that be need some big terror attacks to drum up that famed American war lust. Get everyone driving around with flags on their cars and a good boogey man to hate. Maybe some fabricated Iranian yellow cake but maybe not that exactly because it’s too close to Iraqi yellow cake. Which never existed but why let facts interrupt a good war fervour.
Some of what he says in it is a little dated since it directly references the 1991 Gulf War, but Jello Biafra’s “Die for Oil, Sucker” applies to today in so many ways as well.
Is this a bad thing?
It’s the same thing it has been for decades. You decide.
Militaries are doing more with less these days, person-wise, though still with massively inflated budgets. These days you operate a large standing army when you’re worried that your youth might get bored and tear your country up if you don’t keep them busy rather than because you expect to use them in waves of mass infantry rushes.
They are doing more with less, but we’re in the shadow of a looming fire in Ukraine. When countries are invaded, you can’t do a lot with drones, governments will need bodies. At that point however, is when conscription would be its most effective (going off prior history – obviously given recent developments, this is also being proven false).
I could very well be wrong, but in my eyes the war in Ukraine has shown that having a big standing army to swing around isn’t the magic win button it used to be. Ukraine has been resisting far beyond anyone’s realistic expectation despite being massively outnumbered, doing huge amounts of damage to even Russia’s naval assets (in large part due to drone warfare). Russia thought they were just going to roll over the border and plant a flag in to Zelensky’s head, yet they remain embroiled in a bitter war of attrition with a military that is a fraction of their size. For what they assumed was going to be a simple border dispute, they have had to convert their economy to a “total war” footing. The ramifications of them throwing scores of their young male population in to a meatgrinder are going to be felt for generations to come, even if/when they “win” and occupy Ukraine… and they know it, given their penchant for kidnapping children.
Humans are by far the most dangerous and capable “robots”. They are just very unwilling to risk being damaged.
Errr… okay?
A very positive but also very scary article. Less war is good, but non democratic countries can still force people to fight, while democratic can’t as much, causing a power imbalance.
Is this why Congress just passed the automatic draft? Are they about to enforce our young men to join the army?
Oh neat, wonder what 3rd world country they plan on liberating. Hopefully their own.
