I am not criticizing them, I’m just out of the loop.
The Fediverse is home to a lot of young, tech-minded people distrustful of major corporations. The younger generations are more likely to come out as transgender due to greater awareness and acceptance of gender identity and dysphoria, and a decentralised, open platform is naturally going to appeal to communists, syndicalists and other left-wingers who don’t want some billionaire buying the next website they get comfortable on. And funnily enough, there are a surprising number of trans people in the tech sector, to the point where trans-flag socks have become a meme among programmers.
This seems like the most straightforward answer. But it doesn’t explain why people on the right haven’t come to the fediverse in proportional numbers. I know a lot of right leaning Libertarian communities, and for some reason they like cryptocurrency and FOSS but not the fediverse.
There are right-wing instances of Mastodon (gab, truth, and others), not to mention many Pleroma ones, as well as Lemmy (exploding heads, and probably others). It’s just that they get quickly defederated by everyone else for various valid reasons (usually hate and abuse, sometimes even child porn), so you don’t get to interact with them much. They just get stuck in their own bubble.
Does SDF not defederate anyone?
Going by https://lemmy.sdf.org/instances, it seems that not yet. I haven’t run into any issues though, and have never seen a post from or noticed anyone from exploding heads, thankfully.
Yeah I was going to ask do you see a bunch of spam from them in the new feed? The admin guy posts so much stuff with 0 engagement it’s weird.
Just found it interesting the SDF seems like the most federated instance on here https://federation-checker.vercel.app/ weird.
I haven’t seen any yet.
Interesting, thanks.
I’m also on SDF. Can confirm that while we’re still federated with exploding-heads, I never see their content in my feeds. Ever.
Interesting. I wonder if the main community they spam in are just banned and not the instance. I got so much spam from one user who posted like several things an hour all day with no engagement on any posts when I would sort by new before we defederated. It was weird.
If no one on that instance subscribed to a community, doesn’t it not show up in your all feed? Maybe just no one on that instance subscribes to any explodingheads communities.
I think this is the key. There’s no need to defederate if nobody’s subscribing to their content in the first place on your instance.
Seeing a flood of content you dislike on your instance from another instance means there’s at least one person on your instance subscribing to it.
proportional
Maybe they just don’t have the actual numbers you’d expect from their outsized presence in the discourse, when they’re not being protected, or facilitated, or actively promoted by engagement algorithms or the individuals who own the other platforms.
(I’m pretty sure this is the case, but I’m too lazy to get sources just this minute)
And they have very few supporters here. If you allways get screemed at by everybody if you say anything you probably loose interest in posting. On those big platforms there are allways people who support you in what you say.
But they have. It’s just they are so hateful and annoying that sooner than later they get banned or defederated. So they drop out of the face of the activity pub. Since no single entity can use an algo to force their views onto all users (ads or suggestion algos) they never resurface.
And of course crypto bros hate the fediverse, it doesn’t let them force their ponzi schemes with ads or SEOed posts. And most people here were initially pretty tech savvy individuals, almost all actively hostile against nfts and altcoins. As for Foss, they only like that the software is free, the freedom ideology is just lip service for them, they don’t actually believe. Case in point, Oracle. Foss? Free for me but not for thee.
People on the right don’t see the issue with neoliberalism. They are mostly fine with all the ads based system and corporate making billions out of the datas. Neoliberalism tend towards fascism with time. They will prefer fascism to redistribute profits to the workers.
The fediverse is a different point of view. You can defederate if it goes wrong with an instance what makes the profits by ad revenue impossible or too small. The big corps don’t have a huge interest in these platform without profits. People on the right will follow these corps and the platforms affiliated.
On the left, people will federate. I recommend to have a good read about the fondation of the unions in the 19th century. People of the diversity will historically be on the left rather than on the right. Again, for the profits, the neoliberals will prefer to oppress you as a minority for the profits than to have social and societal consideration for you.
You ends with the people of the left coming to the fediverse and the right on corps social media.
They already have alt-tech, which had kind of a headstart on the Fediverse.
You don’t have to be a right wing extremist to be libertarian (small L).
I am here and a big supporter of OSS, but many would call me right wing. I support living your life how you want privately and acknowledging different identities and sexualities, because if you aren’t flaunting it, how would I even know? But I also feel that sex, intimacy, etc should be private and should not be something discussed or displayed so openly, regardless of orientation, so many would label me as conservative.
As long as your definition of keeping those things private includes heterosexual couples holding hands, giving each other a kiss, or showing off their pregnancy or kids.
You (and probably I) are going to get downvotes for this, but this is as reasonable a take as I’ve seen from any “conservative” so far. As long as you’re not actively promoting legislation to curtail or ban consenting adults from privately expressing their love for others in the ways they feel most comfortable. I hope you’re not against gender-affirmation therapies.
The issue I have with this is that publicly expressing their love for others is an extremely natural and normal thing to do. Talking openly about your opposite-gender spouse, kissing or holding hands with your partner, going out for a nice date - whatever. These are all totally normal things which people won’t blink at when a heterosexual couple is doing it, yet LGBT people can still be discriminated against for these behaviours. That’s not even getting into trans or gender-non-conforming people, who can be discriminated against simply for existing and presenting the way they do.
I don’t just want to ensure that LGBT people are free from explicit legislative discrimination. I want them to be free from social discrimination as well. Social consequences for being publicly gay are not acceptable, even if people aren’t in favour of more open forms of discrimination.
I’d argue the ‘young’ though. Polls I’ve seen, seem to show a huge 30-40 demographic.
Ya, most young people I know that are not in tech are terrible with tech. They have only experienced EZmode and need shit put on a silver platter.
i think that’s why the fediverse is doomed to perpetual obscurity. my reddit-refugee addictions have taught me that only reddit has the content that i like and that i need to learn how to appreciate stuff i don’t like to get my fix; i wonder how people get started on furry stuff. lol
Trans people and communists are nearly half of software dev. The other half are furries.
How dare you imply most software devs aren’t all three simultaneously
Based off the amount of fury porn communities I’ve blocked, half seems very, very conservative. What’s the old joke, if a bomb went off at a fury convention the Internet would go down?
Not sure why this is such a common perception. Most of the software devs I know are pretty average people other than being computer nerds. I met one trans CS student in college but that was it.
mate he didn’t say in general
he said the devs of Lemmy
normie cs dorkies are chasing 12hr intern jobs at explotative upstarts
youve been here for 17 days and made nearly 500 comments and ive seen you reply with obvious troll comments to every comment on several different posts on here.
You need a life dude.
I feel so out-of-place, being a regular run of the mill gay dude.
You got socks?..
It’s more a Venn diagram which includes trans furries, communist furries and the elusive trans communist furry which has only been theorised to exist.
Oh I hate myself for doing this but…
*elusive
Changed it.
How did you spell it before? Btw, is there a comment history function on Lemm like there is on Twitter Blue?
My head canon is that it was “exclusive” before. That just tickles my jimmies.
uwu
GNU+UwU
🤔😜
That’ll be partly down to the communist and transgender coders who helped lay the foundations for this place.
I for one welcome our trans communist overlords
That’s a possibility. Since the platform started off on their terms, it’s harder to convince new people of opposing politics to join the community.
A big part is because things like the Fediverse are aligned with the goal of Communists. Do away with the profit motive and constant rat race so we can spend time doing and making great things.
Imagine if Facebook wasn’t interested in ad revenue and data gathering but truly sought to keep people connected and to facilitate communication. No bullshit algorithm, no manipulation to keep people doom scrolling.
On a technical level, federation is arguably just as compatible with libertarianism. Each instance is its own island nation, free to set its own rules while members vote with their feet in free association. That it hasn’t gone that route is more to do with the founding population than the technology.
Ya, the tech interests me. It feels like a version of the earlier internet where private forums and webrings were the norm. I like the native support for blocking things I don’t care to see as well.
Most of them seem to be centred around a few instances, they’re pretty easy to avoid once you have the lay of the land.
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it’s amazing what you see when algorithms aren’t deciding it for you.
The issue I have with this is that publicly expressing their love for others is an extremely natural and normal thing to do. Talking openly about your opposite-gender spouse, kissing or holding hands with your partner, going out for a nice date - whatever. These are all totally normal things which people won’t blink at when a heterosexual couple is doing it, yet LGBT people can still be discriminated against for these behaviours. That’s not even getting into trans or gender-non-conforming people, who can be discriminated against simply for existing and presenting the way they do.
I don’t just want to ensure that LGBT people are free from explicit legislative discrimination. I want them to be free from social discrimination as well. Social consequences for being publicly gay are not acceptable, even if people aren’t in favour of more open forms of discrimination.
I find myself to be a stereotypical Lemmy user. I’m trans, (anarcho-) communist, a programmer and Linux engineer.
I’m older, I transitioned (ugh I hate that word) about 2 decades ago. I got into computers consciously and very intentionally. I knew I’d need to support myself soon and spent a good amount of time thinking what industries or companies might be willing to hire someone like me (this was even before trans people had employment rights in California!). I chose computers because I felt like it was an industry where someone might hire me, I could make enough to survive and pay for surgery, and because it seemed one where my co-workers would be less likely to beat me up or kill me.
When it comes to communism, I have a hunch that being trans forces you to think about society and why you are not accepted, who is causing your troubles and why. It seems apparent why someone so low on the social acceptance ladder as a trans person would be repelled by exploitation based zero-sum systems and attracted to systems that would allow them to survive and thrive.
Linux seemed just fundamentally awesome to me. You mean people could just choose to get together, coordinate, and build one of the most complex things to exist on the planet and give it away for free? Sign me up! I think Lemmy and the Fediverse are attractive for similar reasons.
Thanks for this. It was very well-reasoned, and gave me a perspective I hadn’t thought of before.
Yeah, that’s the reason. Trans girls just often happen to be good at IT and leftist.
I was going to say because Linux is a big community on lemmy. And as we all know, Linux users are all either trans or femboys. /s
Why do you think communism would allow you to thrive?
Seriously, take a look at the history of communist countries and tell me which one you think you would have looked to exist in as a trans person 🤣
You’re conflating communism with authoritarianism.
Unregulated capitalism causes more harm than any other form of government not appropriately regulated. It’s worth more thought if you find yourself actively against it. We’ve been indoctrinated hard.
Communism = authoritarianism.
I notice you didn’t answer my question either.
So far communism had only been tried in small groups (where tribal dynamics make it work) and in Soviet and Chinese authoritarian regimes
Communism ≠ command economy
Communism ≠ authoritarianism
Communism = a broad selection of idiologies more or less agreeing with the idea “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”
Several countries have such strong socialist policies in place that they could reasonably be called communist if we didn’t pretend that capitalism was opposite to and incompatible with communism. Capitalism is an excellent technology for extracting from each according to their ability.
“Full communism” where you strive for perfect equality is probably less bad than “full capitalism” where you strive for full freedom of capital. Enough capitalism that you have the incentives it supplies and enough communism that those who won’t or can’t work are paid enough to live healthily and be in a position to seek work if they wish to, seems to be a good and reasonable position.
I’ll answer the other part for the parent comment too
If they fail to fit in to normal culture at work and are so unsuccessful at working, communism gives them a safety net.
- They could have taken a risk and selected a job they expect to enjoy rather than one that will accept them if there’s a safety net
- they could have selected a job they might enjoy rather than one calculated to pay enough to save for gender reassignment surgery if the state would pay for the surgery
- they could have had the surgery earlier (which makes it better) if the state paid for it
It’d be fantastic evidence if we could actually look at documentation of how these small group trials have worked out. Honestly, it’s the first I’m hearing of them.
I don’t understand the word “paid” appearing in your third bullet point. Wouldn’t a communistic society operate without money? Generally speaking, what would a doctor’s motivation be to get 11+ years of medical school + residencies, then perform a difficult operation on a patient that has potential for complications and blame? (In a capitalist society, the motivation would be “Helping people” plus “Money”, tied with hospital-level protections against malpractice suits, but I’m curious about your answer)
Wouldn’t a communistic society operate without money?
You could have communism with money. People still need a way to allocate resources and barter. I’m out of my depth here, as I’m a socialist but not a communist. However, I recognize that communism isn’t the bogeyman US propaganda (in schools, media, culture) taught me to think of it.
To give you the less complicated answer, communism is an economic system, not a form of government. Communism can and has been authoritarian, but it can also be libertarian or anarchistic. There’s nothing inherently authoritarian about an economy without money and without classes, based on need. It’s just the ideologies that want to (or say they want to) implement it in authoritarian ways that got to run the more famous socialist experiments. If you want to see how non-authoritarian communism worked, there are also historical examples of it, they’re just smaller and lasted less.
Answering your question - in the period where most countries that called themselves communist existed, no capitalist countries accepted trans people either. But you are a capitalist nonetheless no? Huh, I wonder why.
Ahhh, yes, the good old anarchocommunism, also known as bigotry 😆
Care to explain buddy?
Kinda sounds like you dont know what your talking about.
Because the people that flock to these platforms first are usually technically adept nerds and free thinkers.
Because the Lemmy software was developed by communist-leaning developers and they have, prior to the reddit exodus, had the biggest communities. As for the transgender related content, the transgender community was one of the largest to leave reddit for Lemmy.
And if you’re transgender and your choices for typical ideology for cisgender community members are communist or fascist, the choice is generally going to be communist.
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Apparently the downvotes are saying it for me.
No rules were broken, mods are pushing an agenda.
I think forty-seven people would disagree that mods are to blame. That said, I didn’t see your comment before it was removed, so downvotes are my only evidence.
People disagreeing is not the same as mods pushing their agenda.
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Ding dong your opinion is wrong
I wonder why disparate and well-meaning communities would leave a social media platform full of outspoken fascists.
Do a shot every time someone says this
Communists leaning is putting it lightly.
The creators of Lemmy are openly marxist-leninist That why one of the biggest instances was .ml
As in M Marxist L Leninist
the ml as Marxist-Leninist was probably just a coincidence, the real reason is that Mali (.ml) domains used to be free
Do a shot
There aren’t nearly as many right wingers and fascists as social media makes you believe. Speaking as a Mastodon instance admin, every single time we’ve had huge waves of bot and/or troll signups they’ve been very clearly right wing accounts (almost all had similar bios) that almost immediately started interacting with and boosting each other as well as harassing trans and queer people.
The thing about the fediverse is that it can’t be manipulated the way centralized social media can. So what happens is that it gets handled very quickly. They get banned and their instances get defederated so all they can do is shout into the void. They’re not, nor have they ever been, the majority by any stretch of the imagination, and most people have absolutely no desire to hear what they have to say at all.
On top of that, a huge number of them are grifters, and they won’t get any engagement here. They can’t get the kind of viral outrage they need because most people aren’t even seeing their posts.
stares in “12% of Greek voters choosing blatant facist parties”
25% of any population is pure lunatics.
Another 25% are just dumb as rocks.
Then you got about 35% of average decent people.
Then you have 10 % of just awesome people.
5% rich sociopaths
10% other
Immediately thought of this:
I was talking about social media specifically.
I wonder how long it’s gonna take for the elites to start trying to pull a Conservapedia on the Fediverse? Cause, you know, all that engagement with non-conservative ideas can’t be organic, right? It’s clearly manipulated by the cabal or something, and we gotta have BaLaNcE.
in a word, intersectionality. you’re getting people who were already looking for an excuse to ditch reddit and twitter, and of that group, you’re selecting the ones with the most tech literacy. That tends to overlap people with progressive politics.
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I just hate ads and want the ad driven internet to die.
That’s why I came here too. Then, it was infested with tankies. Been a strange experience so far.
I think that a lot of people forget that collectively all the english as a first language countries added together dont add up to the population of china or india. So the algorithm which doesnt discriminate based on language just feeds us the aggregate.
I try not to get annoyed at the tankies. If my government would fuck my life up and disappear my family for talking shit about them, Id probably play along too.
This is actually an interesting take.
And, I almost tend to agree. They’re awfully tough to digest, even with empathy. Their tactics are… bad?
It’s almost like an abused animal that you’d like to help. But, it’s such a threat that you kinda have to leave it be. Every time you try to feed it, it bites and scratches you,and everyone around you.
At some point, despite the empathy, you just let it starve.
“extremist left” is a bit much to describe groups of people just trying to avoid harassment and hate on platforms clearly careening to the right, with essentially zero moderation, that officially respond to inquiries and concerns with automated poop.
You’re right, too many of the people on the fediverse aren’t extreme leftists. We should radicalise them
i dont see how they implied any if the above to be “extremist left”
it seems like you read “extremist left”, assumed it was referring to you and then got upset about it referring to you
-
it doesn’t apply to me, I don’t care if you think it does
-
if you’re unable to understand implied context, that’s your issue, not mine
i missed extremist left in the end of the sentence, you are correct
-
This is the right answer. Of course marginalized groups tend to colonize new communities, because the big platforms, both because of their top-down structuring Nd because of the people who are on them, aren’t always welcoming.
This is different from Voat tho. Voat was explicitly made to be a “free speech zone” i.e. a “let’s say nazi shit because nobody can censor us”-space. The fediverse’s idea is simply not to be dependent on centralised platforms, it says nothing about the content. If it happens to be left leaning, it’s because left leaning people tend to care more about stuff like right to privacy and centralisation.
It really seems like all “free speech” social sites are really just places for racism to flourish.
the most universal and common limits to free speech that people will come across on social media in the west are usually an iteration of ‘don’t be an asshole’
social media censorship is usually relatively lax on other fronts, and various sites will censor different things, whereas most every site will have basic enforcement of ‘don’t be an asshole’ rules
as a result the most crying about free speech will come from folks who got told off for being an asshole and are entirely incapable of getting over it
I don’t think “free speech” and “don’t be an asshole” are incompatible. I do mostly agree with your take, there different flavors of asshole that are more tolerated than others though.
My assumption is that the bots, shills, astroturfers and other corporate interests haven’t arrived in sufficient quantities yet.
It’s not that there’s more here, just the volume of noise out there is far greater and most of the content generated is for parties who gain no advantage from posing as part of either of those communities.
I don’t know if it’s just Reddit and Lemmy, but it feels like the internet in general just started trending heavily towards transgender-related stuff in the past few years. Just references to Femboys and trans flags all over the place, it’s kind of weird how quickly it gained such traction. I don’t have any problem with the trans community, if any of my kids came out as LGBTQ+, I would love them just as much. In high school I literally wore dresses and got beat up and made fun of for being different (more for the punk/goth aesthetic), so I’ve had some understanding of what they go through, even if I don’t identify with any of it personally. I sympathize with what they’re going through right now given that an entire political party has decided to turn them into scapegoats.
And I think it’s great that they’re building a community around themselves and are able to find other people that accept them for who they are, but I find their online communities tend to be incredibly hostile and militant to anybody that is less than completely loyal to the cause. Even just asking questions, giving opinions, or commenting any sort of criticism of their militant behavior gets you banned if you’re not 150% supportive. Anything you say is twisted around to make it seem like you’re a bigot who completely hates trans people and you’re essentially a nazi. It tends to be incredibly negative, like they’re looking to be outraged at the slightest provocation. Their tactics tend to be incredibly heavy-handed, just absolutely no tolerance for Cisgender people not understanding their lifestyle.
So I’ve just started blocking trans and furry content because I just don’t care to see it. It’s just not my bag, nothing against people that are in that community. The same way nobody else would really care to see if I made posts glorifying heterosexuality and being a boring vanilla binary white guy, I’m just not interested in celebrating lifestyle choices simply for the sake of celebrating it. I’ll go to LGBTQ+ weddings and I’ll defend anybody’s right to love whomever they want or be whatever they want to be, but I just have other things I’m more interested in reading about. Board games, science, technology, politics, climate change, graphic design, art, music, movies, and whatever else other than someone else’s sexual identity. Maybe that makes me closed-minded, I don’t know, I thought the point was equality?
If you block furry stuff you’ll miss out on a lot of network security news
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I’m not seeing any of what you’re describing, maybe you should edit your subscriptions and then filter to Subscribed so you’re only getting content that interests you? I think it’s great for people to have an environment where they can celebrate life events that should be allowed to bring them unqualified joy, but IRL may draw snide comments and abuse from families and strangers and coworkers. I’m an old cis het white mom, but maybe I need to seek out some of those communities and spread a bunch of upvotes like confetti at a wedding.
I’ve always thought it was better to browse all and filter out things that don’t interest me rather than try and only subscribe to things that I already know I like. I end up finding communities and discussion that I never would have found otherwise, and honestly, I can’t fathom why that isn’t the default/most popular way of using aggregated sites like this.
It’s kinda like listening to the same 3 albums over and over again just because you already know you like that music vs just letting a station play and skipping the songs that aren’t working out for you.
I saw some new-atheist style anti-mulsim racist trans women online the other day.
Given how men are more likely to be openly racist online, I’ve been waiting for the honeymoon phase of liberal type trans activism to taper off, much like how you can find many right wing LGB people online today, but as this post suggests, they’re mostly liberal for now.
because the fediverse is a place where the admins choose to federate with whoever they want and get to choose what are the policies in their own instances. so you got a chance to stop the hatred and harrasment trans people are victim of on other social plateform where the company don’t want to dive into “political” stuff
it’s kind of a safe space online for trans and lgbt for that reason
Gays are to Boomers as Trans is to Gen-X ers. I’ve been wondering what the marginalized group Millennials are going to have trouble with. My current guess is Poly, but that is just a guess at this point.
Groups I have trouble with as a millennial:
- Fascists and neo-nazis
- Groups which manufacture outrage that marginalize others (This can sometimes be focused/hidden inside of “_____ rights” groups, ironically)
- Anti-intellectuals
- Fringe extremists both on the left & right. They wrap around and are more like each other than they are to their “side”
One thing I don’t understand is certain types of slang but I understand that’s more a result of not being exposed to it regularly then anything else.
Ofc I don’t understand people that identify as a dog, or a snake, or a duck. But they are free to do them, as long as they don’t try and force that on me (ie. Inconveniencing others/trying to be the main character by being unprofessional in the work place, or making life harder for services/people that don’t cater specifically to them…etc). I think that applies generally to anyone, but you seem to have to walk on eggshells if the person who is being a dick is of some other nature, as if that excuses the behavior.
While writing this I had an epiphany. My biggest gripes are harmless groups who are viewed as fragile, who are able to get away with behavior/actions that others cannot because others don’t want to be viewed as _____Phobic and lynched. Empowering some of them to, generally, be assholes. That’s what I can’t stand.
I didn’t used to believe in Horseshoe Theory, but then I learned about Tankies
Millennial here, no hate towards poly-folk. Seems exhausting, but do you boo.
I expect it will be something AI related, like wanting them to have rights or whatever as they approach mimicking human behavior and
appearingbeing alive (see, did it there). Likely because of a decade or so of us being economically threatened, and not viewing them as things that can think/'feel/not-want-to-die or whatever.No fucking way will I ever support AI having rights. It’s game over then, just hand all the power to corpos.
I’m a millennial, and the only people I have a beef with are the “Bar Nazis”, you know, the kind of people who are outright fascists, but they try to hide it because they think that they can convert you.
Im gen z and I just want to sacrifice Nazis.
You’re allowed to say this here without catching a “Advocating for Violence!” message from staff?
Dang, it really was time to leave Reddit (Seriously they sent me a warning for agreeing with a guy who said he wanted to punch Nazis… They’re… NAZIS! It’s okay to hate Nazis, they literally hate literally everyone else!)
It’s not that hard. Capitalists and neoliberals
/s Those polygones are at it again, ruining <home country here>.
