I really don’t like the design of the progress pride flag, and I couldn’t really put my finger on it until I saw this: https://nava.org/good-flag-bad-flag
For reference, here is the flag I’m referencing as “bad flag”:
And here is the original:
So, the original has too many colors, but it’s the colors of the rainbow. In order. It’s recognizable from really far away, and it’s dead simple to draw.
With the Intersex flag, that’s 14 colors. There are three shades of “purple”. The circle won’t be visible from far away. The chevrons are too thin to be very recognizable from far away.
It’s not like there aren’t good pride flags. Like there are AMAZING ones:
Edit:
In case you don’t know what these are: https://flagsforgood.com/collections/pride-flags
Thats way too busy. Should definitely just keep the rainbow flag. Not every little niche needs specific representation, just have the rainbow as a catchall for any kind of deviation from heterosex
Edit to add : if they want to use them to identify and specify within rallies or amongst themselves somehow then whatever, go for it, as long as we can accept the layman isnt gonna have a clue and cant really be expected to.
Wasn’t the entire idea of the rainbow flag to just say “this includes everyone”, to be inclusive?
Then people started “well red is this, yellow is that, green is that …” Making the entire thing as exclusive as can be, now requiring a color and or symbol for each and every tiny different identity they were trying to be
Then people started “well red is this, yellow is that, green is that …”
But the stripes always meant something:
Hot pink = Sex
Red = Life
Orange = Healing
Yellow = Sunlight
Green = Nature
Turquoise = Magic/Art
Indigo = Serenity
Violet = Spirit
Flags being symbolic was never the issue. The progress flag was made in lieu of black, trans, and intersex queer USAmericans being excluded from big, corporate backed, pride events, which brought to the fore, a slew of intra-queer tensions.
By making this new flag, it was a way of symbolically coming together. And it’s stuck around because of, well… Everything going on lately.
They all sprung up in that period where flags were trendy. Every little camp had to have one to feel like a singled-out tribe—and, no, this isn’t just kink flags. This meant many would be flag designers overnight.
The result is there’s some really fugly designs out there in the wild now and the idiots can’t go back. But most people are over flag phase now, so you’re unlikely to ever see this and most others out in the wild.
Nothing fails more at its job than a pride flag that people have no idea what is. It’s almost irony.
And is this one ugly? Oh, yes. Enough to turn a person straight.
The solution is inheritance. If you want a more specific flag, inherit from the rainbow, but add an insignia. Now you have a unifying flag that is more meaningful. Also you can skip the complexity of trying to make everyone stand out because the rainbow is all inclusive.
For example, I also like the pink triangle pirate flag. If you want a gay flag, take the rainbow and add that pirate insignia. Think like the US flag which is also a bunch of stripes but with some star insignia. Now you have one clear insignia on a field of inclusiveness
You’re right. Could literally design anything and people that know nothing about any of it could figure it out quickly. But instead, a salad of sex preferences, gender, race, kink, specific US cities, all appearing to be under the Intersex insignia.
It’s always seemed so bad to me that it’s more likely to be done by an anti-woke troll or someone like Michael Scott discovering Pride Month.
It’s just offensive. Obviously to the eyes, but also to any group being shoved together within its borders.
Here’s the thing though, I know this is an ally flag, but it’s like they never considered symbols:
Ignore the really bad black and white background for a second.
Imagine the left side of the shape is an homage to the original pride flag and the right side is WHATEVER YOU WANT TO PUT IN IT. Uniform clean design with representation. Easy to draw for the layman (fill both sides in with rainbow if you want), and easy to add specific representation
Imo, the rainbow flag is perfectly inclusive. By focusing on one minority, you make it less diverse and less inclusive.
Rainbow flag is best
It was poorly designed ever since they added the chevrons. The six colour pride flag was already pushing it with having six colours, but it pulled it off well and made it work. But anything else just screws it up.
Personally, I think adding intersex, transgender, black people(???) makes it seem as if they WEREN’T included in the original. I was always under the impression that the 🏳️🌈 flag included the whole LGBTQ+ groupings
Same here, I don’t understand the need to include ethnicity in a gender and sexuality flag. The flag was fine and already represented diversity. The fuck?
Also very america-centric. Different races are oppressed in different places.
Yeah, very America-centric because here in Mexico we’ve been fine with the former flag. We have arguably less of all the USAmerican-everything the flag stands for. 😅
Weirdly , I think the chevron works. But instead of adding all of the extra stripes , I think it would have been better to make the chevron a single color.
Gilbert Baker, before he died, added a lavender stripe to the original flag to for ‘diversity’. I say we blend the chevron with Baker’s vision and have it be a singular lavender color
That said, while I think that would be more aesthetically pleasing, I have come around on the progress pride flag in the same way that I like the flag of Maryland. It’s so busy that it’s circled around from being ugly to charming.
You are judging work by somebody who doesn’t feel compelled to follow guidelines made by other people with those very same guidelines. Those other people looked much more closely at flags for geographical entities, not movements, to come up with their guidelines. No one is required to follow them or retroactively abide by them. They are a great style guide but not the law.
Every flag serves a purpose. This flag’s purpose is to show representation by color and design for everyone in the community. It’s was the point to be busy.
Why don’t they just stick with the rainbow flag? Because the idea of the rainbow encompassing everyone was made at a time when gay and lesbians came out with pride but many of the letters that abbreviate that community today were still marginalized more harshly, maybe even within homosexual circles. They weren’t all suddenly anthropists and free from discriminatory points of view. Development of ideas and communities takes time. And that’s why an artist took ideas from many different flags that were created over time and combined them into one. It is eye catchy and instantly recognizable, even at a medium distance still.
I don’t find the result aesthetically pleasing either. But I recognize a) that wasn’t the point of it and b) I’m not a member of the LGBTQ+ community. If from within that community a movement rises to change the flag into something else, by all means. Other than that my design opinions - and I suspect many other ones in this thread - are largely academic and frankly irrelevant.
Good flag bad flag is not the gospel. Take it as a starting point for new designs but don’t scrutinize all existing flags by it.
Ugly flags & the LGBT+ community, name a more iconic duo. Like, I thought we had designers amongst us, whatever happened to them?
But you see, Graphic Design is their passion!
Americans love to subdivide themselves, and that’s especially true for activists. The flag reflects that.
i just learned last week about the original lesbian flag:
and i gotta say it’s amazing
Fair warning with that one, its really cool looking but mostly popular with trans lesbians and terfs.
as a trans lesbian… ok that tracks.
I’ve seen TERFs use it less, as they’ve started to win the “trans debate” less of a need to disguise their shit as “protecting lesbians”
I’m of the option that the original rainbow flag is still the best. It was meant to include everyone under the rainbow so trans people and others are already included.
Was it meant to represent black and indigenous people?
Does it need to?
Not sure why you would ask that. I’m responding to this claim:
It was meant to include everyone under the rainbow so trans people and others are already included.
Ah I get your point. Native and black people are their own sexual identity. Got it.
I’m responding to the claim that everyone on the progress flag is already included on the pride flag. I am not expressing an opinion about whether a flag should or should not represent whatever group of people. Am I wrong that the person I am responding to implied that this?
Rainbow flag is cool. 🏳️🌈
Due the spectral (is that said correctly?) nature of gender identity and sexual preferences individualized representation of every part of an infinite spectrum is, by definition, impossible. Thus a catch them all flag is the best in representing our diversity.
New pride flag
Haha I came here to link this. One of my favorite videos.
Oh god please no
OHIO!!
O-Hi-No!!
I doubt it’ll ever be redesigned.
The reason it’s badly designed as is, is that people wanted specific inclusion into the primary symbol. There’s really no way to change a rainbow; it’s the standard spectrum of visible light being used as a symbol of everyone in their diversity being part of a group.
To be any more inclusive, you have to put things on top of the already inclusive rainbow. A corner piece or an inset is the only way to do that that isn’t horrible looking no matter what it is.
The chevrons from the side are at least visually balanced, though not well chosen colorwise. Then again, the representative colors weren’t chosen with being added to a flag in the first place.
Once you start changing an established symbol rather than just coming up with a new one, design goes out the window. It’s no longer cohesive because it can’t be. It’s like the difference between someone planning a tattoo that covers their arm, and someone getting a few dozen tattoos on their arm. Shoving things together without a plan ahead of time is airways going to be less visually pleasing.
But, visual pleasance isn’t what the flag is for, so maybe it’s more effective than something planned from the beginning. I dunno, but the fact that it isn’t “just” a rainbow does mean you can’t mistake it for someone liking rainbows in general, so that could be a benefit of that change.
I don’t agree that the original rainbow flag has too many colors though. If you don’t have the standard color spectrum there, it isn’t a rainbow to most people’s minds, so it would be worse design. The standard ROYGBV is standard for a pigment rainbow for a good reason.
I’m not advocating for removing the rainbow. You could literally “cut” a big rectangle in the middle and just have a different color background with extra things, paying homage to the original rainbow flag and having center balance. The only good thing I have to say about the chevrons are that it establishes vertical and horizontal orientation.
I’ll have to mull over your statement about being more effective that something planned from the beginning.
What annoys me about takes like this is that it seems to be appealing to some sort of council of gays who are in charge of the flags. Nobody is. There’s no “official” flag. If you don’t like the progress flag or the intersex version of it then just don’t fly them or design your own that you do like. Nobody is stopping you. A ton of the pride flags in use today are just designed by random Tumblr users in the mid '10s. Which is fine, not hating on them, just making sure you know there is nothing stopping you from making one you like or flying the ones you prefer.
This is the very reason I’m surprised. These flags come and go by the winds of memetics; so why is it that this design is somehow able to propagate so well despite being so clearly visually incoherent?
I’m not necessarily complaining, I’m just astonished that it caught on. Like imagine if a really discordant and structureless song became super popular.
I fly the original pride progress flag on my house and I really like it. If it is shocking to you that not everyone agrees with what makes a flag look good look no further than the US’s state flags. They’re a mess. They’re all over the place. People have different tastes. I think the “state seal on blue background” is bad but clearly enough people in those places don’t dislike it enough to change it.
pride flag indeed.
it’s a long time meme that pretty much all LGBT flags are awfully designed. but they also got wide acceptance so it’s hard to redesign. as a designer I’ve looked for redesigns and have not seen anything really. even the ones you’ve shared are brand new to me. where did you find those?
Why does everyone complain about the progress flag when the poly flag is right there and is terrible? Absolute garbage. Terrible color choices. Barely holds up to heraldic color rules. and Pi? Seriously? Get out of here you fucking nerd. 2/10, workshop it and come back. I hate it.
I’m cool with poly people, this is just the flag equivalent of biting your tongue when eating a burrito.
That’s the old secret code one. The new one is listed in this post already
Oh yeah that’s so much better
Seen it, is better, not heraldic, still hate the old one so much. Secret my ass everyone knew what that flag meant
Aah bad flag jumpscare
downvoted for showing me that flag
not to be exclusive but i dislike the contemporary trend of trying to shoehorn polygamy and polyamory into LGBTQ spaces, tbh.
i personally dislike poly, admittedly, but i don’t really think it should be illegal or anything either ig. either way, it’s a lifestyle choice one makes and not an immutable facet of your identity that you’re born with, which i know is an increasingly controversial opinion these days but tbh i don’t think poly people experience oppression or bigotry the same way queer people do and it’s disingenuous to act like they do. it honestly makes me kind of upset to see people so widely positing such a position. i know the inevitable comparison of this rhetoric im using to the rhetoric used against queer people historically but i honestly don’t think that’s a very fair comparison in the case of poly, but that’s a whole can of worms itself.
again, not really an attack on poly people or their right to exist. i know my personal disdain of it probably shines through a bit here in my voice but i don’t want to come off as rude.
Aside from the design of the flags, scrolling through these ones felt a bit like a colour blind test. Especially the demi-flags.
That’s not actually the original pride flag. That’s the one with 2 mission stripes that were taken away due to cost. The original had turquoise instead of blue and a pink and indigo stripe, so one color more than the rainbow. Rainbows have red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet.
The 8 striped also symbolized different things. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag_(LGBTQ)
I agree with what you’re saying. As they keep adding more things to the flag, it becomes cluttered and harder to see.
