What is it with Americans and this fear of socialism? Yes let’s have some socialism, what the hell is the problem with that?
Americans see China and think: “Oh no, very bad because of socialism/communism”
But as someone who was born in mainland China (I’m Chinese-American), PRC is nothing “socialist”/“communist” at all, its a horrible State-Capitalist Authroitarian Regime under the guise of Communist aesthetics. I don’t fear socialism/communism because they never truely existed, in fact, I’d say that Norway or Finland (based on what info I could gather anyways, never personally been to Norway or Finland so I can’t speak from experience) would be more closer to “socialism” than PRC, at least they actually have a social safety net, PRC doesn’t.
As for why Americans fear these terms, I think it’s because, for some people anyways, you can get labeled as an enemy of the state to even uttering “socialism”/“communism”.
(Legal disclaimer to the FBI Agent reading this, just in case I have to make this clear: No, I am not a “communist”, as in, I do not support the CCP or similar authoritarian parties, I just support a more egalitarain and democratic society however you want to call that, and my views are 100% compatible with the US Constitution, now fuck off FBI, stop trying to denaturalize me, maybe actualy investigate the traitor in the white house, for fuck sake)
Hear that boys? They mentioned egalitarianism. Round this user up, off to Uganda.
😭
Can we just invite the Trisolarians to get this over with? /j
McCarthyism is probably the most succinct answer. The Cold War directly aligned us against the Soviet Union, and a key means of villainizing the USSR and its citizenry was to paint their core governing beliefs as heretical to the American way.
There is also no doubt in my mind that Socialism’s strong connection to Union activity in the US also incentivized Corporate Barons to lobby against Social Politics hard. I have not seen any specifics about that myself, though. Modern lobbying efforts are well-known, though.
cold war and the red scare once performed never went away
The elites own the media. We’re conditioned from birth to hate SoCiAlIsm/CoMmUnIsm/TaXes/ThEft/Etc. Repeat those terms 100 times a day over a lifespan and it becomes religion for 30% of the population.
If the government spends money on the little people, there’s less money to bail out the Too Big to Fails.
Privatize the gains, socialize the losses. The United States isn’t a country, it’s a corporation with a military.
I’ll just refer you to the above graph. That fear is greater among the elders who grew up in the McCarthy era, and the unfortunates who listen to them.
It depends on how the socialism is used. US corporations, farmers and the fucking MAGAts that abused Payback Protection Program like it a lot.
Socialism is democratic control of the factors of production. Crony capitalists paying each other isn’t socialism.
Umm. Ok. Normally when ppl talk about socialisism they’re usually more talking about state provision of the means to live for those who would otherwise be unprovided for; ownership and control of means of production is generally more associated w/ the word communism. Obvs both big tents, but still, odd defn IMO
Americans are pretty confused but that’s not what socialism means.
Sure, that’s why my phrasing was so specific about ‘usually when people say…’. I acknowledge your point and accept it as correct however.
Supporting the food supply and keeping jobs during COVID are both great examples where the government should step in. The problem is the hypocrisy, when people agree only when it benefits them, only when they can be “takers”.
Even the lack of safety features on the Payback Protection Program were good things - the money got out where it was needed much quicker.
The emergency is past so now we have the opportunity to go back and look for fraudulent use. We have time for the legal system to work. This is the money we need to “claw back”. This is the fraud we need to hunt down. And it’s not enough to just return the money for a free five year loan
fuck that, the government already requires taxes without consent. It should not be allowed to retroactively declare uses of money fraudulent.
As far as I remember a key feature of that program was to say what is was for but then to intentionally not implement bureaucracy to ensure that. If it was always fraud but getting the money out fast was a priority, then yes it’s very much a good thing to go back and rain justice down on cheaters
Did the government just make it rain money on people unprompted or did people fill in forms saying they needed it?
Probably stems from the Red Scare when people were rounded up and jailed/fired/blacklisted/exiled. It became the boogeyman. Through the last couple generations the fear around the word is still there, mostly because we haven’t heard positive things (let alone the truth) about socialist policies in the better part of a century.
What Your saying is socialism, You commie!
Americans would rather spend $20k a year on useless health insurance, just to make sure their taxes don’t accidentally pay for black and brown peoples healthcare…
American Elites and conservative morons.
Not all Americans. The majority have wanted socialized Healthcare for a long time, but actual political results rarely match the popular opinion here.
At least 50% voted racism. There is no hiding behind the “Elites”.
Even the majority of republican voters want health care reform. It’s a cross-party issue, for sure. Trump even lied and said he had some beautiful, magical healthcare plan that’ll fix everything. People who believed him are clearly still idiots of course.
I am sick of this bullshit argument. The ‘majority’ of Republican voters can say whatever they want, but they vote for a party whose core values are against healthcare reform and will even take it away if another party tries to implement it. For 20 years or more voting republican has meant supporting racism and corporate interests above all else. Republican voters are getting exactly what they voted for. Stop trying to make them sound like victims.
It isn’t bullshit per se. It is by and large what they want when polled, but they’re too fucking stupid, too hung up on single issue voting, or too easily misled and naive and think the awful people they keep voting for will somehow not fuck them over some day
Follow the money. Find out which politicians resist healthcare and you’ll find who’s getting paid to resist it.
I’m not referring to votes, but basically every pill or survey that asks people about these ideas. Most Americans generally agree with and want universal healthcare.
Also, a lot of voters are single- or few-issue voters. With limited choices, some will just vote anyways closest to their beliefs. That doesn’t necessarily mean they agree with the full package.
And yet sweet racism/homophobia keeps them from demanding universal healthcare.
You are ignorant on this issue. Please do better before making generalized prejudice statements.
50% of what? Wasn’t his tally closer to 30% of gen pop?
The nonvoting assholes add up to more than 50%.
…and then piss and moan about fuel prices for their pick up trucks and SUVs with V8 motors.
Uh, plenty of Americans are black and brown
Mostly missing the point here. Yes some minorities also voted against health care, but the overwhelming majority of votes comes from white conservatives and the victims are proportionally higher minorities. Most of these voters claim they’re not racists but the results are a great example of systemic racism.
I’m pretty sure even the white population are in favor of socialized healthcare. It’s just that the insurance companies spend a crap on of money lobbying our politicians to make sure it remains private so they can squeeze out every single penny from us. Oh. And other companies in general to make sure you don’t switch job easily
No they aren’t especially if you combine 40+ or men with that statement.
The point is that “Americans” is a net that encompasses a lot of people, so generalizing like you’re doing is a hot garbage shortcut that smacks of the exact kind of xenophobic behavior you’re railing against.
It’s just bigots being bigots.
My friend got cancer and she lost her job. Luckily her parents pay for her insurance out of pocket. Even the treatments are covered, she still needs to pay for copay and deductibles. This is America. When you are down, we kick you further down. No developed country does that except us
but you’re forgetting that the other countries tax you more when you are doing exceptionally. Policies like that lead to meritocracy and reduce everyone’s chances of getting a yacht.
Everyone’s chances of getting a yacht? You mean a small nu.ber of people?
yes, a chance to get a yacht. Similar to how everyone that buys a lottery ticket has a chance to win.
And yet the same people won’t consider living in a better place for some reason.
How can we move? Or roots are here. It is not that easy to move to another country.
Perhaps it will be easily to change people’s mind such as yours
Country depends on immigrant labor, citizens can’t imagine being an immigrant. Checks out.
The US healthcare system is proof that more Mario brothers are required.
My insurance premiums are closer to $12,000 a year (basically a hop, skip, and a jump from $1,000 a month).
It certainly isn’t the most expensive plan I found, but it was up there. I knew about all the shitty practices by insurance companies, but I tried to do my research to ensure that my prescriptions and doctors were covered, and I hoped that with a plan this expensive, I might be a bit insulated from the worst of it.
Then I had an emergency. Three things that my insurance did not cover really stood out to me.
The ambulance was considered out of network, so I am on the hook for 100% of the cost. You don’t have any choice about which service picks you up.
The doctor was out of network, so I have to pay 100% of his charges. I know he probably approved my treatment or reviewed my test results, whatever, but I never saw him and the only treatment I received came from the nurses.
I was given 2 ibuprofen. They cost me $45. I was given several different and conflicting reasons why, but ultimately, I’m on the hook for that.
I wouldn’t pay it. As of now, medical debt can’t hurt your credit score. When they send it to collectors, just deny the debt is yours. Refuse to give the collectors any info and don’t accept the debt.
Do you have any sources?
I tried to double check and all i found is that:
The three nationwide credit reporting agencies will generally not report medical debt on your credit report until the debt has been unpaid for at least 180 days (about six months).
I am preparing a pamphlet for getting and navigating US healthcare and that would be an amazing addition.
Apparently, 15 states prohibit it from hitting your credit. I was under the impression that it was nationwide.
By chance do you have a source to this?
It was a law from Biden that went into effect in January but trump had vacated in July, all this year. There’s a lot of confusion on this because of the flip flop.
https://www.nclc.org/resources/dont-add-further-insult-to-injury-medical-debt-credit-reports/
This was the story I saw. I know in my state, it can’t ding your credit.
the funniest part is that’s not even what socialism is.
“Socialism is when government does stuff like laws and currency.”
“Socialism is when they take some gold from the dragon”
really? i though it was when no iphone. (and sometimes vuvuzela)
Well, it’s not socialism but universal healthcare is a socialist policy and it has been won by various reformist socialist parties in most western countries.
some western countries usually can have such vast welfare state within capitalism because they are still extracting value from their colonies.
Ireland, Poland, Malta, Denmark, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Andorra, Luxembourg and Norway don’t have colonies. And the first three used to be colonies.
some of those you mention engage in imperialism on their neocolonies.
Of course someone from .ml would repeat the same buzzwords without thought.
I know. I came from a post-colonial/neocolonial country. But to treat all Western countries as monolith is utterly ridiculous. It is ironically being racist to dismiss white former colonies as neocolonialist like Poland, Ireland and Malta just because they arw white, isn’t? Frankly, the MLs patronise the global south as if they have no agency in the same way as neoliberal imperialists do. Ask Filipinos and Indians on what they think of CPP-NPA and Naxalites, respectively. MLs would actually get more respect and taken seriously if they aren’t being hypocritical like the neoliberals. ML is just another form of tyranny with a different mask.
of course someone from .world decides to be completely ignorant.
Sure bud.
Uncalled for.
You must be new to dealing with MLs. Nothing “uncalled for” for calling out MLs that keep harping about social democratic countries having neocolonies, when literally these countries have none and some of these countries even used to be colonies.
I’m Canadian. I highly doubt I pay more than $15k in taxes to get my free healthcare.
I bet you get tons of free bonuses too: roads, public education, pensions… Damn, seems like this whole government thing is quite efficient, with the no shareholders taking profits and stuff.
Italian here: 5,000€
European healthcare is something like 6k€ per year and person, the USA is around 14k€ (because leechers and parasites in the system).
Source: some graph on the internet.
We also obviously do mutualise the efforts so even the bum living under the bridge gets the same treatments. We all put in an effort according to what we can, as we are living in a society. What a way to control the masses in the USA. Horrifying.
Currently waiting to begin taking a medication my doctor prescribed because the pharmacy wouldn’t fill it without prior authorization from the insurance company, but to do that, they had to go back to the doctor to request the doctor fill out paperwork to send to the insurer.
During the appointment with the doctor, we already discussed that my insurer likely will not cover the medication, but looked up the retail price, which is not beyond my means or out of scale with the benefit I expect it to bring me. I’m okay paying out of pocket, but my pharmacy is locked into this process that has stretched out over a holiday weekend, so it’s likely I’ll get the medicine a week later than I otherwise would have.
This is more mental health related, and I’m okay physically, but if the blood tests and years of failed approaches from other methods are any indication, then this could show immediate and significant impact.
But I have to wait for the wheels of capitalism to grind on, so they can ensure maximum value extraction from a very expensive insurance policy.Your pharmacy lied. There is no legal requirement to try to bill insurance first they presumably stand in many cases to bill them more especially if you cash paid only after coupons or patient assistance programs which are essentially coupons.
Thus they choose to follow this process and lie to you.
Oh, yeah. They didn’t even give me an option. Not even really a matter of them saying it was legal or anything. It was a quick awkward convo in which they were too rushed to really listen and I was too flustered to really make them.
I’m not all that annoyed at the pharmacy. They are trying to save me money. My comment is really more about how the insurer adds confusion and delays, because of their second guesses, insisting on verifications, etc.
Guess what. I visit my doctor, for free, (or dentist for $$$) they give me a prescription, I go to a pharmacy and give them the slip, they take some time to fill it, explain how to take it, and then I pay a small fee (80% covered by employer health plan at no direct cost to me) and walk away. Canadian healthcare system at work.
Sure, I have to wait sometimes for major surgery based on the triage approach (most serious cases seen first) but it is painlessly easy to get the care I need when I need it. This is how most of the developed world works. Your country is cheating you.
If they don’t cover it, hit up goodRx. My insurance was fucking around with me one month, and I got my lamotrigine down to 20 dollars from 120 dollars using goodRx.
This is why I want america to be screwed up completely. So Americans wake up and realize what theyve been enforcing on global south for decades.
Its tragic that the only way humans (as a whole) learn is when they themselves suffer.
Capitalism is the best marketing socialism has ever had.
I think they are learning about how much stuff costs and just went: “You know what, screw the stuff they teach at school, lets try X political system”
Like I doubt they even understand different political systems such as socialism, its just they are so fed up with the current system, they just don’t care anywmore and are willing to try any alternatives.
But they don’t actually know what alternative is good, so that’s why you also see some of them go towards the alt-right pipeline, as you can see with Gen Z Men voting for trump
They also don’t have good, compelling reasons to stay with the current system. They’re not getting much out of it, and the “oh, but the computer you’re making this on was created under capitalism” isn’t that compelling of an argument, especially when the alternative is choosing between eating, and buying the medication that stops your blood turning into acid.
The whole “system of true opportunity, where the best and brightest can shine” rings hollow when you’re working multiple jobs to survive, no matter how smart you are, and it feels like you’re extorted at every opportunity.
Glad to see that people distinguish socialism and communism.
They should get rid of the single largest socialist government expenditure on the planet (the US military) and then tell everyone they need to get Defence insurance.
Please stop saying the military is socialist. Please understand that socialism is about the relationship to the means of production and not just ‘exists because tax’
18-39
As a millennial, I feel great not being called old.
Lucky you. My wife calls me old all the time. And she is older than me!
At 18 a guy in our group started dating a 19 year old. Another guy gave her shit about robbing the cradle to annoy her, which worked. To get him to stop driving the joke into the ground, I said, “Dude stop it. She’s not robbing the cradle.” She relaxed. “He’s robbing the grave.”
Damn, brutal.
FREE HEALTHCARE is SOCIALISM! FREE SCHOOLING is SOCIALISM! NOT being Gunned Down in School is SOCIALISM! NOT letting Elon Musk fire Hundreds of Thousands of Workers is SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM SUCKS!
