They will use CC BY-NC-SA 4.0. Which means it’s not open source, and no-one else can sell replacement cartridges, parts etc.
It might still be a good printer and enjoyed by some, but it really annoys me when companies mix these terms up, almost certainly deliberately.
The cartridges are a HP design. The CC license is the smallest problem here.
The only complex part of the hardware is the HP cartridge controller, and you have at least part of the work here: https://hackaday.io/project/176931-hp-printer-cartridge-control-module/details
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
Isn’t it about documentation or design rather than code or hardware? Typically CC isn’t used for software or hardware.
from their own page
Open Printer will use the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license for all of its files, including electronics and mechanical design files, firmware code, and the bill of materials.
Thanks I addressed that seconds ago https://lemmy.world/post/36926543/19781367 and my bet is that it’s an omission, so I asked on CS Discord just in case but yes people should be mindful of that before the crowd funding campaign start. Hopefully it’ll be fixed.
Despite the clickbait headline this isn’t open source
Open Printer will use the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license
The NC license isn’t open source, it violates point six of the OSD
Also means that a robust community of people creating businesses to sell variations of the hardware for those who aren’t as maker friendly cannot emerge, correct?
Bc imo that’s what really got early 3d printing off the ground. Like back in 2010 during the reprap days there were all the independent maker storefronts plus a few bigger ones like lulzbot and makerbot (that eventually all got put out of business or bought for toxic modern shit like bambulab because in the modern day under capitalism every single industry has to consolidate until it’s under a few large extremely consumer hostile companies with okay products that just eventually get worse and worse bc there’s no competition or regulation for them but I digress).
Without this industry or a proper open source platform I don’t see how this will succeed
Also means that a robust community of people creating businesses to sell variations of the hardware for those who aren’t as maker friendly cannot emerge, correct?
Correct, that’s just one of the problems with NC licenses.
Creative Commons doesn’t even seem appropriate for hardware. Like, that’s trying to apply copyright law in patent’s realm.
Wow, they even did description about open source AI
I still disbelieved than we are living in the timeline than the fucking printers are DMR restricted.
FUCKING…
PRINTERS…
That’s just the tip of the iceberg of printer issues. I’m in networking, don’t get me started on networking and security issues involved in printing “solutions”
I used to work as IT on a multinational and have few things in this life than i hate more than printers and owls, but they found a way tonmake printers even shittier
We tried the owls in some of our meeting rooms and we scrapped those.
What’s the point of having a 360 camera in the center of the room when everyone will stare at the big TV anyway? All the people at the other end see is everyone looking sideway to the camera.
If you buy their TV bar unit, apparently you can pair the two to cover longer tables. The people in the back are covered by the table unit and the front is covered by the bar.
I know this from reading knowledge base articles because no organization I’ve ever been apart of ever wanted to spend the money on a good system that covered everything properly, so I have never had the chance to do it.
It automatically focuses on whoever is speaking.
Still, most people will look at the TV during the meeting, so all you see is one side of their faces.
I took one of the broken ones from my office, repaired it, and now it allows my dnd campaign to see the DM and all the other players reactions when playing remotely.
What do you have against owls?
having to constantly replace mice
Only the bluetooth ones or also the wired ones?
Are you talking to me? Oh, you weren’t? Then who were you talking to?
Who? Who? Who? Who?
Not hooty owls, it’s a conferencing thing.
I have nothing against the damn pests until they start to making their nests near my house, since the college the same owl have his nest near and the fucking screaming the whole night.
Sometimes even when the mother abandon the nest and the owls grow up one asshole offspring refuses to hunt and spend the night screaming wait for his mom back with, until it gave up on starvation and goes way or (hopefully) dies
Sounds like it sucks at every level. From what I’ve dealt with on just software/drivers:
You want to use scan to email through anything that isn’t a fully open, no auth, anonymous SMTP relay? Go fuck yourself.
Wait… we changed our mind. We’ll totally support SMTP authentication, but with an arbitrary undocumented limit on the password length we can store, which is definitely shorter than the password length requirements for most SMTP relay suites. Certificates? Holy shit are you from the future?
Or you can scan to network share, but I hope you enjoy finding all the hidden catches and caveats that are completely undocumented!
You want an option so people have to log in at the printer itself to release their print job? Enjoy six different interfaces for five different underlying standards for how that works across two different manufacturers. And we reserve the right to just stop supporting that feature or change it entirely with any firmware or driver update. And if there’s a mismatch between the driver and firmware then we’ll just make the print spooler/job queue shit itself and require manual intervention to continue printing.
You want our driver to properly communicate to end user software the paper sizes it supports? If it supports double sided printing or not? How it will collate multiple copies? Man, we can’t even care enough to indicate to software if we’re Black and White or Color. Best we can do is completely ignore the options you picked through your software and our driver and just do whatever we think is best. That’s a good compromise, right?
For the price of these god damn enterprise mfds, there’s no excuse.
We need to do something about companies misusing the term Open to trick people
Can OSI trademark “open source” and sue companies for not meeting its definition?
Trademark is for customers to know who made a thing, not how it works or what you do with it.
Certification marks are a type of trademark, and is precisely what is wanted here.
I’m biased towards all software being open sourced.
Certificate marks look potentially useful if many more people cared about the value of open source (software freedom). People who do care probably already know common licenses, and custom licenses do not inspire any confidence (law ain’t easy).
It’s difficult to tell when people are internationally misleading others saying “open source” because many devs just say it to mean “you can see the code”. Some would sincerely, without ill-intent, call Unreal Engine open source. Would certificate marks promote an understanding?
I think it would. You could only include an OSI badge if you’re using an OSI-approved license. Tell people to look for that badge, and if it’s not there, they shouldn’t call it Open Source. Maybe that helps, idk.
I love that they also designed some ways to save space. Most of us no longer live in a world where we print multiple times a week. Printers just sit around and take up space while they do nothing for months on end.
This thing is small, wall mountable, and you don’t need to store flat packed paper.
These folks should win a red dot design award for this. Really smart industrial design all around. They really solved a lot of different problems, not just the ink problem.
Does it still rat you out to the feds?
Oy vey.
That’s usually only an issue with color laser printers.
That is not true even a little bit. Look at any inkjet paper under a microscope made after the mid 2000s.
A brother laser printer solves all problems. No dry ink and no subscription. I should have gotten one sooner.
Or a Canon if you can’t afford a Brother.
Prints even without ink, and the software looks and behaves like it’s from 1996 so it’s ridiculously simple. It doesn’t harass you or fill your PC with bloat—the software just hangs out quietly in the background and only pops up when you need to print to inform you of ink levels—it doesn’t bother you with bullshit ever.
The only modern feature it has is network connectivity, which is honestly the only modern feature I need in a printer, so that I can print from my phone without having to boot up my PC first. And that’s even simpler than printing from PC because you don’t even need a driver. Just hit the Print option in Android and start printing.
For now : https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Brother_printers_causing_issues_with_third_party_inks
I have one also so I’m invested in how this plays out.
It’s not just that, they’re easy to repair, and parts are available. I love laser printers, except for HP
Yup. I’m on my second now because of an international relocation, but the first one is still going strong at my dad’s. Bought that thing 14 years ago, was the first series that came with network enabled printing instead of USB (though it has a port).
Bought a 19-year-old secondhand Brother printer 2 years ago, still working flawlessly, and everything (drum, toner, etc.) is available when needed.
I’ve got an ecotank for my business and it’s cheap on ink.
As people on HN correctly pointed out, it’s not fully open source as their license only permits them to manufacture parts for the printer
Open source is generally about the code, not the hardware, even less manufacturing. OSHW (hence the clarification even though a bit longer) is about the hardware and has specific requirements in order to get the label and ID, e.g https://certification.oshwa.org/de000008.html and process https://certification.oshwa.org/process.html
AFAIK there is no terms that means open source + OSHW but I’d love to learn if there is one and apologize in advance if I missed that.
Anyway as I’m interested in the project, which part is proprietary exactly? In theory as they sell via CrowdSupply https://www.crowdsupply.com/apply it should be both OSHW and open source but I didn’t dig.
It states the code and files will be CC-NC licensed, which isn’t open source.
Thanks, I just checked https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer and its says “Open Printer will use the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license for all of its files, including electronics and mechanical design files, firmware code, and the bill of materials.” so I don’t think that’s related to the source code but rather the resulting binary of the built firmware.
The latest CrowdSupply project I bought was the PGB-1 and they did realize their firmware source code https://github.com/wee-noise-makers/WNM-PGB1-firmware/ and as GPL3 so I assume they will clarify that before starting the crowd funding campaign. I don’t think they can, even if they wanted to, have a CS project without releasing the source code.
Edit: to be safe I asked on the CS Discord for clarification.
So a closed open printer. I mean, is it at least, like, see-thru? I don’t get the name.
Someone’s getting assassinated over this.
How they can say it’s DRM free ink if they use non refillable HP cartridges? Ok, the built-in DRM isn’t enforced, but HP has the worldwide exclusive in producing the cartridges, and its integrated printhead is literally the shittiest one you can find in the market. Yes, you can drill the tank and add ink, but that shitty printhead is not designed to last more than 1.5x the original life. And 100% of the “compatible” cartridges are refilled old ones, coming from ewaste, so they will break/clog even sooner.
If anyway they had to reverse engineer proprietary protocols to talk with the proprietary printhead, couldn’t they use the printhead of a $50 Epson? Way more reliable and at least it has 4 colors instead of tricolor for black.
Ps: if I remember right on the box of HP cartridges there’s some legal language like “licensed to be used only with approved HP® products”, so can they sell a product that uses such cartridge?
The world sorely needs this. Very nice work.
It does have some very unique features, like if you submit a print job that is larger than fifteen pages it goes on strike
Hey, thats just like my printer
Will the Ferengi Alliance allow this?
Whoever made this now needs Freedom 🦅
I’m not against this initiative, but there are others besides HP and Brother. While maybe it’s not self repairable (did not break down since I bought it years back so I have not yet tried) other than nozzle clogging which once happened but is an easy fix. It’s hardly customizable which have not been a limitation so far. So i’m happy with my Epson ET printer that takes any ink I feed it.
So does my wifes Epson, works great after 8 years (and 5 in storage!!!). However, if something broke, it would be impossible to fix it. I know I’ll be getting her this printer once the Epson breaks down.
