Non paywalled version https://apnews.com/article/venezuela-us-explosions-caracas-ca712a67aaefc30b1831f5bf0b50665e
(Thanks to @AnchoriteMagus@lemmy.world )
We just casually out here kidnapping heads of state now?
And many world leaders will defend it because they know US bastards could do the same to them.
If putin kills zelensky next week then trump won’t be able to whine.
It’s not like Putin hasn’t tried that…
I bet he’s thinking about trying it again. After the attack in Kherson they have the perfect excuse.
Never mind Zelensky, if I were Taiwan’s president I’d be looking at the US creating a big naval distraction for itself at the same time as affirming that heads of state are fair game with more than a little trepidation…
First time the united snakes did it?
Well no, they did the same in Panama with Noriega
Again, Noriega surrendered after 2 weeks, he wasn’t kidnapped the same night as the invasion started.
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Maduro took a deal, this wasn’t a kidnapping.
The clue is Trump says he was captured, and he always lies.
Edit. Someone got a deal lol
…okay.
How about, instead of presupposing what he’s lying about and why, we try and actually find out the truth? Reality still does matter, y’know.
It’s all over the news, this was an agreed deal.
Edit lol. Deal done.
Link, please.
“Everybody’s saying it!”
i’m surprised to see yall so convinced of the opposite but i understand if you just not wanting to sensationalise without data. is the US military really so infinitely far ahead that snatching a head of state is a guaranteed operation?
i suppose i haven’t see any independent verification that they have maduro at all so could be a bluff
For me personally, it’s the statement of fact without sources. This is the era of AI and social disinformation. “Trust me, bro!” carries even less weight now than ever.
Don’t get me wrong, even though Venezuela doesn’t deserve US aggression, Maduro is still a shady conman and I wouldn’t put it past him to sell out his country.
But I won’t believe it just because someone said it was true.
You don’t believe this is anything new, right?
Imperialism and general fuckery, no…but to my knowledge this is the first time the US has opened a conflict by just straight up taking the head of the foreign government.
Unless, of course, you’ve got something that says different.
gonna hand wave in Hawaii
Honestly, idk, but they’ve done worse/adjacent things so it’s not shocking. 🤷 Just depressing.
Noriega didn’t surrender until 2 weeks of conflict had passed.
Again, has the US ever opened a conflict by kidnapping a head of state?
There’s also the US-backed coup in Hawaii where they put the queen under house arrest first thing.
You know what, you got me on that one. I had forgotten about Hawaii. We definitely did those people dirty.
the only technicality was it wasn’t the ‘US government’ doing this, they just okayed it after
completely unrelated rogue gunboat guys, we promise
you beat me by 7min lol but this was my immediate thought
So the 60+ boats bombed were just a bit of pre-war?
Are you saying air strikes are the same level of military involvement as the Invasion of Panama?
i am. it’s manufactured consent at the minimum and a fucking act of war at the maximum. see what the us did in the gulf of tonkin for instance. the us does not care as it is a terrorist state.
i bet the new guy is … oddly friendly with oil corporations
Have you heard about the expression “moving the goalposts”?
I suppose that depends on whether or not you consider the wars against the indigenous people here in North America actual wars.
Let’s appreciate what this means for the global order.
Russia has proactively attacked Ukraine. Now the US has attacked Venezuela. If China ever needed a permissive international environment to attack Taiwan, this attack was a major step in this direction.
We are quickly sliding back to a world of great powers, where might makes right and hence smaller countries will be bullied into submission without any concerted opposition by what remains of the ‘international community’.
If the US gets away with this, the same is going to happen to Panama in the not too distant futute and to Greenland soon after.
Unless Russia is burned out after the Uktain war, they might try their hand at the Baltics.
Should Russia collapse, China might integrate some of the Siberian regions.
And so on.
I wonder how this all will end.
It will end like it always does. Like the Roman and Byzantine empires ended, like the USSR ended, like Alexander the great’s empire ended, like England’s empire ended.
At some point great powers become too great to be stable, so they fracture into provinces that become separate countries and the cycle starts over.
Only this time there are nuclear weapons involved, so we’ll see how that goes
Personally, I’m quite ready for an independent New England. We only get back 80% of what we contribute in taxes and manufacturing.
yes because everything will remain the same in this scenario…
honestly it’s this level of analysis that got the usa to elect a pedophile for president
Oh so sorry. I guess I’ll just sit quietly in front of my propaganda box and not try to leave the fascist hellscape my country has turned into.
All political movements start with local activism. If I want New England to be free, it starts with me at the town level.
Have fun doing nothing. I’m sure that engenders a real feeling of hope deep down in your jibblies.
i’m not telling *ou not to act… I’m telling you to give in an ounce of thought before you act
I wonder if AI and it’s possibilities for mass surveillance and mass manipulation will make a difference and allow empires to sustain themselves and control it’s people.
Maybe wait for anyone to develop something even remotely AI before wondering about that?
Mass surveillance is happening right now, by companies and goverments. The data this generates can be analyzed using AI tools to find anything out of the ordinary, anyone trying to resist the empire. LLMs can be used to generate content to manipulate people, en masse or by microtargeting based on the surveillance data. This is not distant future, this is the near future, if not present.
You have identified what I also see as the only “use” for LLMs. Still doesn’t make it “AI” though, which is what my jab was directed at. However, maybe I should have pointed out that I do not dispute it can be used to mass-manipulate people :/ Sadly, that is entirely realistic.
ah yes, the famous opening line of The Romance of the Three Kingdoms
We are quickly sliding back to a world of great powers
Sliding back? When did it stop?
Westerners don’t have a clear perception of this since they have lived in either the great power (US) or one of its vassal states (NATO) for the last 30 years.
They’re not used to a world of multiple great powers / poles, even though that has been the case for most of human history.
This is ridiculous. The USSR was a thing not long ago.
Countries with nukes and power will eat all other countries, up to the point that one of the countries with nukes is confident that they can attack another country with nukes while preventing a retaliatory strike to happen. Shit will probably slide sideways when that decision happens.
Might make right has always and will always be the de facto. It takes those with. Might choosing to not have it make right for anything else to exist.
That’s the reality of history and anyone who has even a grade school understanding of the history of humanity knows it.
We can all want better, and we all know the cost of the fall out of might makes right. But that doesn’t change reality, it only makes it more painful to watch history repeat.
Yes and no.
As a last resort, the threat of violence (or enforced consequences more generally) is ultimately behind the authority of any institution.
But legal and institutional frameworks can persist if power to inflict consequences is distributed and governed by rules, the incompliance with which is again sanctioned, and so on. The system is then kept stable by preventing consolidation of power with few actors and not tolerating arbitrariness in how it is welded. The fact that any authority is ultimately rooted in the threat of violence does not mean that we as social and reasonable animals cannot find reasonable and stable arrangement that should prevent us from actually having to resort to violence all too often.
And we have absolutely slipped up in this regard. Relying on one party (the USA) as the primary locus is power in NATO and the world to keep peace. Allowing big social media platforms to consolidate and grow beyond any reason. Turning a blind eye to violations of international law
This is what Putin wants. Putin’s puppet is doing exactly what it’s master commands. A world where great powers disregard everyone’s sovereignty.
Which is really weird give how decentralized and hard to control the world is right now. This empire strategy is a failing one for everyone involved.
We are quickly sliding back to a world of great powers, where might makes right and hence smaller countries will be bullied into submission without any concerted opposition by what remains of the ‘international community’.
I’m sorry but if you think this wasn’t already the case I have a West Bank village to sell you.
Did I say that hasn’t already been happening? Please don’t assume what I think. Obviously, letting Israel get away with bombing Gaza and other Palestinian areas is part of that trend.
What I mean is:
After WW2 many agreed that something like this must never happen again. The UN security council was founded in 1945. European Convention of Human Rights 1950. Treaty of Rome which established the EEC in 1957, and so on, and so on. Despite the cold war, international affairs in the latter half of the 20s century were not a free-for-all. This was a strong era of international law and legal regimes were added and became increasingly more binding, not the other way around. When the USSR collapsed and Germany was unified 1989-1991 many started to envision an ‘end of history’ as the world would converge into a global liberal order etc. The mood in 2000 was generally one of great optimism; a new millennium for humanity, a new chance after the difficulties and horrors of the 20th century had been overcome. For the first time, the world set overarching development goals, the millennium goals, to be reached by 2015.
This general trend towards and joint vision of more international cooperation, universal free trade and a rules based order has slowly been dying since…? I’m not sure when exactly, probably 2010ish. But what has been a subtle turn for the longest time has accelerated noticeably since ca. 2020.
That was my point.
Obviously, letting Israel get away with bombing Gaza and other Palestinian areas is part of that trend.
My point is that it’s not a “trend;” Israel has been committing atrocities against Palestinians since before day 1 and it didn’t affect their international recognition one iota. Then they committed more atrocities and were rewarded with international trade, investment and arms. Even after they recognized the State of Palestine they kept encroaching on its territory. There is no time in history when Israel didn’t get away with bombing Palestinians, and this trend holds elsewhere. International law has never applied to great powers in any meaningful sense; it’s always been a cudgel for beating smaller powers when they get out of line.
This was a strong era of international law and legal regimes were added and became increasingly more binding, not the other way around. When the USSR collapsed and Germany was unified 1989-1991 many started to envision an ‘end of history’ as the world would converge into a global liberal order etc.
Clearly the US and its allies never felt the need to follow these legal regimes, if their behavior during and after the Cold War was any indication. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#1945–1991:_Cold_War. This optimism you’re talking about was nothing more than naivety that never reflected the real world, is my point. When did international law ever restrict American imperialism? Soviet? French? British? The only real difference now is that Westerners can’t ignore this stuff any more; as someone from the third world I can tell you nobody I never felt like I or anyone else were protected by international law. Iraq alone is conclusive proof that the rules based order was a farce. What you’re describing is the West losing faith in the farce they created; nobody else had any faith in this shit in the first place.
I’m not sure when exactly, probably 2010ish.
If there was ever such a thing (there wasn’t), there’s no way it can be argued to have survived the War on Terror, so it has to be before 2001.
That’s some good 1984 right there
Kamala would have done the same as Trump because these things are decided by the 3 letter organisations, the politicians are just some face to show to the public.
So this is how 2026 starts.
Oh boy.
This is going to be a decade of a year, isn’t it?
A decade?
I see an optimist.
I expect the wars just to escalate. First countries are running out of water, that’s gonna accelerate soon.
None of this will end well. And we knew it would happen decades ago.
Oh well.
Yep. For real.
Guys, it’s fine. Remember? Trump has the FIFA peace price.
This should get him the coveted NHL and WNBA peace prizes too!
Capturing another countries leader just to hide the fact that you are a pedophile is ludicrous. C’mon internal america. Only you can stop this (for now).
How do I stop it? Half of my family is still delusional thinking this is a good idea. It feels helpless when his cult is still stuck on him.
You don’t stop it (on your own), you work with other people who are trying to stop it.
You figure out what you’re good at and have time for and do that. In a group. Collectively. No-one is saying ’why doesn’t traxex fix this’.
If you want to take on deprogramming cult members yourself there are resources available to anyone to get you started.
Thanks for the reply, I’ll try that as a start.
There’s also oil, our perennial reason for invading and making war (sorry I mean conflict).
This is ONLY about oil. Trump doesn’t give a rats ass about people dying from drugs. He only wants control of the largest oil reserves on the planet. That’s 100% what this is about.
We don’t know he’s a pedophile. And even if he is, that’s not a crime. You mean child molester.
We don’t know that the sun will come up tomorrow, but it’s a safe bet.
It’s also to steal the oil for shareholder profits
So much for not following illegal orders. US army is the world’s largest terrorist organization.
Well, it’s an order by the president, so it has to be legal… it is legal right? RIGHT?
FEEL THE WRATH OF OUR FREEDOM
This Futurama bit has passed the test of time
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rFiutKZjRW8&pp=0gcJCR4Bo7VqN5tD
When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.
Trump is friends with the Saudis. The Saudi’s oil brings in billions of dollars a day. Trump covets that treasure, and wants the same thing for himself.
Venezuela sits on the largest oil reserve on the planet. Whoever controls Venezuela, controls the oil, and Trump has already announced this morning, even before his official announcement that the operation even happened, that they will be taking control of the oil.
Follow the money: This is all about stealing Venezuela’s oil for Trump’s personal financial benefit. Our military has become the muscle for the Trump Crime Family.
Bottom Line: This certainly isn’t about drugs. He just PARDONED the ex-prez of Honduras, who had been convicted of Narcoterrorism in an America court, and was serving decades in an American prison, for doing the exact same thing that he is claiming for Maduro. So save me the breathless rationalization about flooding our cities with drugs.
Again, Follow the money: Trump will pardon Maduro once he pays the proper bribe, and he is in full control of the Oil.
It’s chemically the same as Canadian oil. I do worry this dovetails with his earlier expansion plans and ability to economically coerce.
So this is where the Amarican people no longer accept this president and rovolt in an unprecedented rage, amiright?
Like, finally take an example of the French and other counties and finally unite in a massive violent protest, right?
Please learn from history, it’s the only way.
We’re patiently waiting and watch eagerly from the sideline here in Europe, come on, act!
I’ve been in the US two months ago, in a very Democratic city, socialising with only very anti-Trump people. Not a single one cared what happened outside US borders. They were upset about the inflation, cost of living, loss of privacy and civil liberties, etc. There may be some who do care about the US foreign policy, but unless thousands of Americans start returning in body bags, there won’t be enough critical mass to stage any revolt or even protests worthy of Trump’s attention.
I’ve lived in the US my entire life. I wish I could tell you your wrong.
I can’t.
Some of my earliest memories revolve around watching the evening news, listening to them say that “X amount of American lives were lost” and wondering why “American” lives were substantially different or worthy of note. A life lost is a life lost. And that’s a tragedy no matter how you slice it. Where that life started or where it lived has no bearing whatsoever on it’s value.
At least… that’s what I believe. The current state of things has me thinking I might be in the minority on that one.
As to revolution, protest, anything that could even prove an inconvenience to the status quo… I’ll believe it when I see it. Not to make excuses, but I think forces in the American culture have been working to defang popular protest since at least the civil rights movement, or perhaps even earlier. Even if it’s demostriably wrong… I can’t begin to tell you how demoralized I feel. My government just… went and did this. It’s illegal. The very shape of our government is supposed to prevent this kind of thing from happening. And yet… here we are. One illegal invasion and (apparently) kidnapping of a sovereign head of state later.
…I wish it were otherwise, but it feels like there’s very little that can be done about it. Americans just… don’t seem equal to the task of holding their government to account. The one thing we are supposed to be good at.
I can’t even begin to tell you how many outrages there were up to this point. Too many. Far too many for concence to allow. This… feels different. Is different. Has to be different, then the way we’ve been allowing things to ride.
But… I’ve been disappointed before. I’m certain I’ll be disappointed again. I hope this will be different, but…
…I can point to plenty of times it should have been different before. Times that would have prevented this from happening. It’s… hard to maintain hope in the face of that.
I mean, philosophically all lives are equal.
But you value people you love, your family (I assume) more than your neighbors. And you care about what happens in your town more than in another city in your country, and you care more about your country than others…
USA had a pretty bad plane crash a couple months ago in Louisville; about a dozen people died. I care, it was a tragedy, but I guarantee you that the people in Louisville care a lot more than I do.
And it’s the same reason a nation will care more about its citizens vs the citizens of other nations. Kind of obtuse to pretend that’s not how people work, no?
That’s fair, I was quite tired when I wrote what I wrote so let me expand on that a little bit.
That is of course true in most situations. I should have clarified this more but primarily when I said “I grew up watching the evening news” I was talking about war on terror coverage.
I’m not pretending that’s not how people work, it absolutely is and that’s the reason this was exploited. But… there’s this kind of… preformative agony to the whole ordeal that, speaking as an American, does feel uniquely American.
Empathizing with the death of people you’re close with is natural. But when, as in Iraq or Afghanistan, they are active participants in why people are dying, and then they’re deaths are used to justify sending more people over there to kill and be killed…
…It kinda just soured me on the whole affair to be honest. And, given the events of last night? It’s something I could easily see happening again. We seem to have dusted off everything else from the Iraq playbook, why not that too?
Anyways, we’re not disagreeing. There was just more to my point that didn’t quite make it into my post.
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I wish I could tell you your wrong.
You’re*
Maybe he wants to describe the reader’s wrong doings?
/s
but unless thousands of Americans start returning in body bags, there won’t be enough critical mass to stage any revolt or even protests worthy of Trump’s attention.
that happened during the invasion of Iraq, and nothing happened anyway… most Muricans are just chicken hawks
Unfortunately that’ just human nature, tribalism, nature is cruel and the life that evolved out of it is the product of this cruelty
There are many social circles. The most immediate is Family, then extended relatives, close friends, then neighbors, then your village/towm/city, then region, then nation, then its the planet.
Humans aren’t really capable of really caring about thing happeneing far away.
This isn’t unique to the US. I think every country is like that, especially those struggling.
It’s not like people consciously choose to be evil, this is just biology, they can’t help it.
When your family is struggling, its hard to care about neighors, and especially harder to care about someone in another town/city.
Nationalism just extend the circle a bit, people care about their own country’s suffering more than others. Don’t even have the time to catch a break and think when your role in this system is just a wage slave.
This is a lie. This reeks of someone looking to claim they’re the only person who cares about Gaza
It may be time for the rest of the world to stop waiting patiently for Americans to mobilize. When non-US states commit atrocities, the civilized world does sanctions to erode public support for the regime. It’s time for sanctions on the US. Russia can’t be the only nation that condemns us.
Like most countries in all of history with remotely any amount of power. The avg citizen doesn’t give a fuck about foreign policy.
If your country isn’t militaristically weak or at risk and your people are’t coming home in body bags. You will be hard pressed to find a country with a population that doesn’t care about it self first and foremost with foreign policy a distant thought.
no, they’ll keep on waiting and seeing… turns out the home of the brave was just full of feckless sheep
US is far to spread out, and not enough people will care because Mudaro wasn’t a very good guy and that’s about as far as nearly half the US will look.
The fact that Maduro got captured so quickly will increase his support if anything.
Fat complacent Americans aren’t going to do anything. They love the military industrial complex including so-called “left” Americans.
… Why? America voted this, 2/3 Americans either actively or passively support a pedo king who kidnaps other countries leaders
What the fuck… What timeline are we on???
The timeline where the US Pearl Harbors a country.
Now, that’s a verb☝️
He verbed it.
We’re on the Beta Seikaisen (Wordline)
What is happening is called Daisanji sekai taisen (Third World War)
Operation Vega has failed… WW3 broke out…
This is the work of The Organization
timeline
Stop with this shit. This isnt some Marvel movie. It’s reality. You are living in the rising age of American fascism, as you have been for the last year.
Its also somewhat witty way of saying that what is happening right now seems so unbelievable it must be somekind of mistake.
Dark times make dark humour and jokes are often easiest way for people to start process things and it does not equal inaction.
If you dont want to see remarks like that, you should maybe stay of internet.
Eek barba durkle…
This is a disgusting lawless action by a convicted felon who deserves to face trial for war crimes.
LOL. Sure, right after Bush and Blair.
Maduro seemed like a dictator to me, but I don’t know if unilaterally removing him from Venezuela by force is the best option. Ideally Venezuelans would decide for themselves who they want their leader to be.
They tried, but the last two elections were massively fraudulent, and it’s hard to have a revolution when the army is behind the regime.
But this isn’t the solution. As my Venezuelan friend said:
But ok, maduro captured, and theeeeen? Not like he’s the only one. Delcy Rodriguez, Jorge Rodriguez, Diosdado Cabello, General Padrino Lopez, and there are 200+ more people that need capturing
Now it’s going to be a Civil War, and we will back whichever side will allow Trump to take control of the oil.
He’s draining the swamp with a soda straw.
I drink your milkshake! I drink it up!
trump is gonna install an even worse dictator
You can read history to know without a doubt it is a terrible idea for Venezuelans
This isn’t about what is best for them, it’s what’s is best for the few USA private interests.
Venezuelans wouldn’t choose hard USA dictated capitalism (even if they purged all politicians and start completely anew) and this war is there to change that.
The ONLY thing this is about is Trump taking control of the Vemzuelan oil fields, the largest oil reserves on the planet. He wants to be the equal of the Saudi Royal Family, and stealing the planets largest oil reserves will do that for him.
He doesn’t care about drugs, he just PARDONED the ex-prez of Honduras, who was convicted in an American court, and was serving decades in an American prison, for doing the exact same thing of which he is accusing Maduro.
This about Oil. Nothing else.
Always has been.
That or the first stage of colonising the rest of Americas (Cuba, Colombia, Mexico, … Canada?, etc).
Or just all the things of ‘why not’, it’s not like morals are keeping anyone awake.
Well, he did invoke the Monroe Doctrine in his speech today, even though he has no idea who Monroe is, or what the Monroe Doctrine is. It was supposed to claim America from coast to coast, but Trump is going claim the entire Western Hemisphere.
I also saw him get excited when Rubio mentioned the $50 million reward for Maduro. I give it 24 hours before Trump claims he should get the $50 million reward because he ordered the operation.
Are you 8 years old?
The US will install an 80s style military government. I would be more worried about being able to decide your leader in 2028.
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3rd fucking day of 2026!…
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Every country pretty much needs to have a nuke now.
That seems to be the lesson Ukraine has taught.
Even before that, look at what Obama did to Libya not too long after they voluntary dismantled their nuclear program.
Except that those with nukes will never allow any country to develop one.
Taiwan tried to in the 80s and got immediately shut down when a scientist defected to the US and revealed the nuke facilities and that’s shut down by allies. And look at them now on the brink of being invaded - bet the scientists feels real fucking stupid.
Eventually it seems like developing nukes will be easy enough i secret that everyone will have them. Apparently it would take many countries like Japan only a year or so to develop nukes in an emergecy so I imagine in 20 years that number will be few months for most countries.
The US is the largest rogue state on Earth
Post-Trump, I fear that’s the truth.
