what is the furthest you’d go immorally for a fresh salary? Hell I’d work for Palantir for a nice $250k or be a manager at Evil Corporation Inc if I got a crisp $300k.
or are you a goody two shoes who will stand by your principles even if it means pain!
I once quit a well-paying job on the spot.
I was asked to write nuclear reactor safety specifications that I did not feel remotely qualified to write.
It depends on how dispersed the consequences are. Definitely no single human life is ruined.
I’d steal a dollar from a 100k people.
I’d not steal 100k from one person if they’re not a multimillionaire at least.
I would never take a job at Palantir, United Healthcare, Nestle, Lockheed martin DeBeers. I don’t give a fuck if they offered me million, but I’m Neurodivergent with a strong sense of justice while lacking the mental ability to act on it.
I’d take the job, but I’d be shit at it and basically just goof off all day
Haha it’s weaponized incompetence. I would take a job at Palantir to sabotage it - especially if they paid me a lot
Take it, suck just enough at the job to not get fired, use the money to lobby against evil policies/fund grassroots groups that support ‘changing’ the current politicians out
When I was younger, I wouldn’t have cared that much.
Now I would not work for criminals anymore.
I am good at my job, so my work has impact. If I worked for the bad guys, then that would mean my work turns the world in a bad direction. Every day.
How you spend your days is how you spend your life.
Worked for a payday loan company for a while about a decade back. Supposedly one of the better ones to borrow from, and they always said internally it was about getting the customers financial options - but still didn’t feel great. Stuck with it for four years or so though.
Now I’ve got kids, and they like to know what their parents do. Had to job hunt last half of last year, and skipped several nice positions at big places because of what they do. Landed a position at a local place for less than I wanted, but the perks and culture make up for it. And I’m happy to tell my kids where I am.
My wife knew what the first place was about, and she accepted it even if neither of us was wild about it. But these days, we like to be role models - makes a big difference.
I “sold out” i was desperate and took a job with Burson-Marsteller a major crisis response public relations company. I got fired after 4 months for making fun of a client to a co-worker. I saw some shit that made me never go against my morals after that. The worst thing (that I can talk about since it was leaked to the press already) was Mars candy company lobbying congress to make sugar based snacks part of school lunches.
this was my response. I would 100% take the job but not hold onto like its gold. Speak up. Challenge bs things. etc. sure you will get fired but you will get some money.
The thing about working for evil people is it’s not just the work. You’re surrounded by people with no morals day in and day out, so you’re never safe. Everyone around you will cut you down to get ahead- that’s the job. You’ll be forced to develop paranoia, no way around it. You’ll be forced to do that to others as well, and you’ll lose sight of why that’s a bad thing. “Everyone does it,” “it’s just part of the game,” “I had it worse before,” or “I deserved it.” It’s bad for you. I don’t want to be around those people, personally. If you have any critical thinking and empathy at all, you’ll see through them and recognize that they’re just always horrible.
More than I’d probably care to admit to myself.
Everyone’s a saint until the rent’s due…
I’m currently working on making a graceful exit from a position I’m no longer comfortable with, so it’s hard to say what I’d do if offered a massive salary to put myself back into a similar situation.
I suspect that there are few ethically pure jobs out there, and very few alternatives that don’t feed into the orphan crushing machine somehow. So in my mind it comes down to striking a balance between what impact your position has, what level of control you exercise over what the company does, and what you can do outside of work to try and improve the system.
Are you willing to campaign and vote against the interests of your employer even if it means the possibility of being laid off or fired? Does supporting yourself financially provide a benefit to marginalized people by making the scarce aid they can find more available to them? Are you designing products or processes to increase other’s misery or just mopping the floor? If you quit, what impact would it have on the org as a whole?
I don’t think there’s a simple answer to this, and I’ve long felt that we allow our occupations define our identites to an unhealthy degree, so I’d rather judge and be judged based on one’s beliefs and actions outside of work than for participating in a system designed to force our participation.
Did not and still would not.
Hell, I even got fired from a nursing job for telling doctors they did a poor job with a patient to their face. While being the main income, with two kids.
You adapt, find something else.
No regrets, would even say it’s a building moment for oneself. If you fold at the first pression, you’ll always fold. My moral compass is too important for me to sell it.
Can’t find ? Change job, change region, change country. Most of the time, you have a choice.
I’m not comfortable with even mild compromise.
Yeah, I feel like if I’d call something my personal “moral” that there’s a pretty hard line there. That said, I guess I don’t have more than a few real morals, though.
Fun thought experiment, but I don’t think one can know without it truly on the table. I like to think I would not at all, but my responsibilities to loved ones may force me to in some situation.
Easy, just don’t have so many loved ones. /s
As someone who doesn’t really have responsibilities to loved ones I don’t really know what I would do with it if I suddenly got something like 3k a month (total). So a 300k yearly which is almost 9x more doesn’t really appeal to me, unless the job itself is nice.
its basically one of the reasons to not have kids. you see how people can be controlled in this way and at best these kids are going to be in your same position or worse as things have been going for the last 50 years. luckily older folk generally have done a bit better and you don’t have to worry about them much.
250k is SO LOW man. It’s not that hard to get by and be happy on 60k a year if you use your money right. Your happiness and peace can’t be quantified. Do you want to enjoy life, love people, and make the world better? Or just be another parasite who makes everyone’s life just a bit worse every day
I’d rather live on the streets than work for palantir.
I was fortunate enough to grow up firmly middle class. My dad sold car chemicals for a pretty good income. He and my stepmom (who also made good money in project management) explained the concept of golden handcuffs to me in high school, that when you start making a lot of money and get used to that lifestyle it’s tough to take a pay cut that takes it away. They didn’t seem especially happy or content to me so having a lot of money has never been a priority for me. I just want enough to get by and save for the future.
When I was scraping by on 28k a year slinging pizzas and delivering for the post office on Amazon Sundays I told my project manager uncle that if I made twice what I did at the time I would be fine. Now I do make 60k working IT for a school district where I can sometimes do some good, and like I had told my uncle I’m doing fine now. I have a pension, I can max out my Roth IRA, have a good down payment for my next car when mine kicks the bucket, and I’m lucky enough to rent a couple rooms relatively cheap from a friend who was lucky enough for their farmer parents to buy them most of a house, all owing me to save a few hundred a month for a house of my own. And I can still buy nice stuff for myself every now and then.
Sometimes I think it would be nice to have an extra 10 or 20k for extra breathing room, but moving back to the private sector would suck, and I would probably just end up like my mother whose financial advisor literally tells her to spend more money. I feel very privileged to say this, but I just don’t think I could be bought at this point.
Anyone that would sell out for something as petty as money is, in my opinion, human garbage.
What if its a lot of money that you could use for good? Or if the alternative is being unemployed, losing your house and family.
False choice allows to justify anything.
You can also find a job that pays less but allows you to live with yourself in the values you’ve chosen.
You can also find a job that pays less
It would be illegal to pay someone less than minimum wage. Some people really don’t have much choice for employment and just have to take what they can get.
Levels of evil vary of course. If the choice was work for the IDF for £250k or doctors without borders for £25k that is a much easier ethical choice to take than choosing between Amazon or unemployed.
Where the hell your family going? They arnt family because youre broke? There are other jobs? There are family rooms in homless shelters? Grab a tent?
Must be nice to live a life where you have never been pushed by everyone close to you to take literally any job no matter what and made to feel like a failure for not finding one.
I dont keep people like that close to me. Luck? Not so much, strong boundaries, yeah.
Can’t move out without money, also got the media and government employees making you feel worthless for being unemployed.
Well thats on you for letting “media and government” opinions have effect. Those influences shouldnt hold value in your own opinion of yourself.
I got booted out on my own at 17, state put me in a shelter until I turned 18. Was homeless multiple times until I found a carrer I thought ethical. Like I said, poverty doesnt scare me. Working for someone who is the boot on folks neck do. Im also nerodivergent, and literally cant stand to stay in a place, living or working, that infringes on mine or others freedoms. I go without, a lot. Found the most community I’ll ever probably expierence, in the lowest of places. I like the low places. Suits and tie types scare me.
State assistance types who look down on folks should rot in their chairs. Again, their opinion doesnt change facts. If you qualify, you qualify, miss nancy on her high horse can eat a dick.
I’ve walked miles in car centric infanstructure, with groceries I had to scrape up money to afford strapped to my back in 100degree heat, all the while cursing the suburban moms in their cars with their AC thinking, “Im stronger than youll ever be”.
Ones own will is a tool to be wielded.
When you have nothing, you have a different type of freedom.
It’s okay by me to accept help where you can, give back where you can, and the people who abuse power are so, so very small (not in numbers but in personhood)
I’m not gonna judge what someone else might stoop to to feed their kids.
I’m lucky enough to be in a position where I can be picky - not everyone gets to say that
say this again after you’ve gone a few years broke
Been broke my whole life, I dont fear poverty. Sell your soul for money, youre a shit human.
You’re right that people often do desperate things when impoverished, but it’s not like it absolves them of any morality.
