- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.bestiver.se/post/1091783
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Good! Motherboard prices have been wildly out of control for a while now. Asus selling 1k motherboards when that same tier of motherboard used to top out at 400 bucks max. Let these greedy fucks have their lunch.
Oh boy, if its not the consequences of their own actions.
The wet dream for big tech has been to get people to pay subscription fees for compute, just like businesses do for cloud hosting. They tried with Stadia to get people to play games hosted in the cloud, but that was never going to fly.
With the compute demands of AI (which is comparable to a AAA game except for the largest models), they dont want to make the same mistake and let you have the compute. They see this as an oppurtunity for subscription fees for the earth.
The fact that we cant get hardware for a reasonable price is an added bonus to this plan.
All of this only works of everyone subscribes to this shit. Businesses will, because its just easier to manage it. Consumers though should not give in. If you want to run an agent, use a small local model.
The best thing that can be done is to make local open source agents and models approachable for regular users. Right now, they arent.
I work for a large retailer that you’ve definitely heard of. We are pulling away from our cloud hosted presence and are building out a self-managed virtual data center in one of our own physical data centers.
Even enterprise knows that paying a monthly uncontrolled cost is shit.
So you guys are bascially building out your own cloud? Where does one even start with something like that?
We are fully cloud where I am, but i have this dream where we self host our inferrence. Ever since i learned more about that 40k acre data cneter in Utah offering capacity for the big guys (AWS, etc), im very skeptical about how safe our data is when sending it to a model. Ethical issues aside
OpenStack on our own hardware.
The wet dream for big tech has been to get people to pay subscription fees for compute, just like businesses do for cloud hosting.
Thankfully there’s a growing number of businesses that have been burned by this, and it seems like companies are starting to try bringing their critical systems back in-house again
There is this tipping point where it becomes more cost effective to bring it inhouse, even with the staffing requirements. For small to medium sized buinesses though cloud all the way.
where it becomes more cost effective
Reliability and risk are also factors. What do you do when a vendor tries to lock you into a walled garden before cranking up prices? What about storage of sensitive information? Sometimes the additional cost of doing it in-house pays off in ways that are difficult to track
The wet dream for big tech has been to get people to pay subscription fees for compute, just like businesses do for cloud hosting.
Imagine the mental health benefits when AI datacentres make computers unaffordable, so we all have to go outside more, and then the AI datacentres shrivel because they have no customers, because we can’t access anything with no computers. So the AI companies die off.
I can dream, ok?
I would love this to be an unintended outcome from all this. However, I don’t think that’s where we’re headed.
I, for one, think there’s a lot of slop in and around the engineering of phones. We might see a lot more software, storage, and overall activity crunched, compressed, and crammed into our portable devices instead. And with more stuff in the cloud/SaaS realm, they can also become (even) thinner clients at the same time. :(
It’s “heavier” gear like laptops and desktops that’ll probably get pushed into the pro and “prosumer” market.
Me running old Asus B350 AM4 Board from 2017…
Hey, it works! I’m running a 5800x and don’t plan on touching a thing unless I need to.
I run 5700X3D on this thing combined with 7900XTX. It just works. I’m going to use this motherboard until that setup is outdated
How has this whole saga not been an obvious indictment of ‘the free market?’
Big players shouldn’t be allowed to gobble up all the resources needed by small ones. How is it not obvious that they need to wait until production increases to meet their needs before embarking on their little project?
No this is exactly what the free market is. Regulations that make things fairer for small people is communism.
Then give me communism bc this free market shiz aint it. Giving us the scraps that AI doesn’t want is just nuts if we get anything at all. Esp since no one beyond billionaires want this ai crap
It’s like a dozen people gaming ever one else for the rest of the chairs on the Titanic.
They want to buy the dip
What about regulations that make things fairer for tall people?
That’s a whataboutism.
You mean tallmunism?
I apologise, but I am very anti-beanpole.
There is no Free Market, that’s just a myth they tell us to allow them to do whatever they want. They don’t really want a true Free Market because it leads to Luigis.
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Sure, you may be able to buy a cheaper motherboard for a while. But you’ll pay through the nose to populate it, hence the falling motherboard sales.
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I have a home server waiting around for an SSD for a year now. I have the money, but I don’t like feeling like I’m getting scammed. So I’d rather wait for this market to collapse than give them my money.
right before mother’s day as well! smh.
If we can’t make a time machine to go backwards, can we at least pause time? The future absolutely fucking sucks, let’s just avoid it altogether lol
Pausing time would be worse than living forever. I could not imagine a greater torture.
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Seed debris in the orbit to destroy current satellites and then prevent new ones from being launched for several decades
Honestly I quite like space.
Better solution is to just kill like six people. Because that’s all the AI industry is, it’s six really annoying rich guys who are having the most extravagant pissing contest in history.
Six? There’s Jensen Huang, Lisa Su, Alex Karp, Peter Thiel, Sam Altman, Dario Amodei, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Satya Nadella and Sundar Pichai at a minimum to start with, but there are many others too. I’m including the CEOs of Nvidia and AMD because they’ve been pushing AI for years to get more valuable customers than we ever were to them.
Just in case anyone needs a list.
This is our fucking insane reality:
Who wins? 6 rich guys or 8 Billion people?
Easy. 6 rich guys.
…
Honestly I wouldn’t mind so much if someone created an AI that was actually useful.
Motherboards were already way too goddamn expensive, anyway.
About a year ago I was considering upgrading my AM4 PC to AM5. The rock-bottom cheapest motherboards were only slightly cheaper than the relatively high-end one I got 5-ish years ago. I decided to stick with my current PC.
There’s going to be a lot of us running 2019-vintage PCs indefinitely.
Just repasted both of mine with phase change materials and thermal putty, including GPU dies. Looking at getting better/more fans and a smarter hub soon. Gonna make this 5800X3D last as long as possible; I’m in this for the long haul lol
Yeah I’m going to be running AM4, DDR4, with my 5800x for many more years the way it’s looking.
Still using my 3700x, and there’s still decent upgradeability with AM4 thankfully. But this thing is still very cromulent.
I think motherboards have been pretty aptly priced. What do you think a complex piece of a computer like that should cost? The most important part of your computer that ties every single part together?
150USD? You can get a decent board for that.
Under 100? First of all, that’s insane, and second of all, you can get a budget board for under 100.
350 is too much? You’re looking at a high end board. You’re paying high end board prices.
Is your complaint that 500 is too much for a mobo? Why are you even looking at 500 dollar mobos?
All of my boards I’ve gotten in the last five builds have been 200-300 and those are amazing machines that are either newer and excellent or older and still hold up over a decade later.
On the first computer I ever built with parts bought with my own money (around 2006 or 2007) I chose one of the best mainboards available at the time (ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe lol).
It cost about 160€ back then. That is about 250€ in todays money. There was a slightly more expensive “crosshair” version of this board, but really nothing more expensive than that.
The last mainboard I bought was “low-end” one that cost about 200€ (around two years ago).
Back then (~2006) you could get a “okay” mainboard for 50€ (~90€ today).
To me all but the lowest-end stuff seems a lot more expensive today.
For my first PC I bought an Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTS, which was the second-best GPU at the time. The GTX model cost around 500€ (~770€ today) if I remember correctly.
My first self-bought computer cost me about 1300€ and was pretty close to top of the line.
Your experience is pretty similar to mine! I went with two 7900GT in SLI for my first machine tho—an 8800GTS would have been a better pick. That mobo cost me around 240 and it was fairly high end.
High end nowadays consists of a lot more stuff, though, and prices have not largely increased. Consider the difference between the 8800 series when it came out to the cost of a 3090/4090/5090! When my store got the 8800 series in we all laughed, that was way too much for a video card, nobody’s gonna spend over 600 dollars on a single video card! … D:
For motherboards though, I’d say 180-300 today covers pretty much all mid/high end boards, save for a few outliers. I’d be curious to know what an average user would get out of a board that costs more than 350.
I keep thinking maybe things will good by 2030 and remember that’s 4 years away. Game devs please target the Steam Deck and Switch 2 as the baseline. Mid range and high end is just too premium for most people. Even entry level enthusiast gaming hardware is too expensive because of memory and storage. Steam Deck and Switch 2 are good low power draw integrated graphics level. That’s not terrible for pricing
Even having high-end enthusiast hardware, I want those devices as the baseline too. Whatever optimizations they do still apply over the whole hardware spectrum.
Also, you can technically say 2030 is less than 4 years away if you want to traumatize old people. Lol.
I like watching sci-fi made in the 80s and 90s where they thought that 2015 was a really advanced distant prospect.
the first time I heard “1997”, in a movie, in the 90s, I freaked out, like no way that’s a real year.
2031 still sounds like a year out of a sci-fi story to me, but it’s only five years away
Back to the Future 2 promised us flying cars, (actual) hoverboards, and Jaws 19… 11 years ago.
No, that can’t be ri……… Fuck.
I agree with you both. And you also both suck for saying mean things.
According to valves hardware survey over half of all gamers have hardware less powerful than the Steam Machine so provided valve don’t go mad with the pricing that may actually end up happening.
I think the steam deck and the switch 2 are probably too low power to be reasonable targets.
Can we create a fund with gamers, and then buy the manufacturers that go under?
We need just one of each, MB, PS, GPU, hopefully something for CPU will be buyable as well.
I literally don’t think we will have enough money. These are near trillion dollar factories we’re talking about. Whole countries can’t even afford to make more.
The sheer amount of global cooperation necessary to make these things is baffling.
If they are going under, maybe we can grab a good deal.
For CPU and GPU, our options are mostly TSMC, Samsung and Intel. Nvidia and AMD don’t really have fabs. Any of those can also help with the other chips on a motherboard. Samsung also do NAND so they’d be the best to acquire.
I think Samsung is going to get hit with helium shortages which are needed in fab, outside of hormuz the US is the only one with a locked supply
I still see fewer NAS motherboard options on Aliexpress than a year ago.
Dammit. Everything is going up in fire GPU prices. . Ram prices. Storage. Then cpu. And now motherboards. So basically everything…!
Even spinning disks are getting pricey. It is nuts.
So now is the perfect time to buy a case.
Motherboards are, if anything, probably going to do the opposite — motherboard prices aren’t rising because of increased demand. Memory prices rose because of increased demand. Prices for things that use memory also rose. Motherboard sales are falling because of decreased demand; motherboards don’t use a ton of memory, and fewer people need a new motherboard because the components that they’d plug into the motherboard cost enough to cause them to defer upgrading or buying a new PC. You might see price cuts, if anything.
It’s actually the other way around, prices should go down as mobo sales are low.
Yes normally speaking that would be logical. But today nobody is producing any products anymore for consumers.
Hack even one of the 3 chip products, Micron, just said fk consumers. We only focus on businesses (Ai datacenters). Since we can earn more that way. In the short term at least.
Tell me, what other market will pick up those gamer oriented motherboards?
They’ll just stop making them and shift toward parts that sell with a x100 markup fueled by batshit insane speculation. They’ll become a niche product in high demand thus prices will ultimately rise.
“Should” 😆
I’m very happy I built a PC between the crypto mining craze and COVID and AI scam…
I built one right before covid and now its looking like I’m going to be using it for a long time.
