Google search failed to even find a hollywood movie, even after 1 hour of attempts. I don’t really care about the movie, but I am terrified by the prospect that google now ceased to function on this basic level. Why is this happening?
I understand the explanations of seo and other stuff like spam content. But why are there NO relevant results at all.
I wouldn’t mind having to start wading through results at page 2 or even 10 but now it utterly fails to find even the most basic things.
Things you found on the first attempt even just a year ago. Now they are effectively hidden.
To me functionally the entire internet has now vanished. I cannot access anything that I am searching for. Might as well not exist at all.
Has anybody found a way around this?
Is this on purpose? Is this an attack on the free internet, herding people to just the top 5 sites like facebook, youtube, tiktok, and so forth?
Are there search engines that still work?
Everybody is blaming SEO, which is true - but Google is also hamstrung by walled gardens.
Before Facebook, most content posted to the web was open. It could be viewed by anyone without logging in. Reddit even uses this paradigm.
But then Facebook started putting everything behind their account login and suddenly, Google can no longer spider a significant amount of the conversation going on on the Internet - and it can’t link you to it either, because the link would be dead if you weren’t a logged-in Facebook user. And of course it’s not just Facebook.
This is why appending site:reddit.com has come into fashion in the past couple years. Reddit, being open, viewable without a login, is a fantastic source for finding people who are talking about exactly what you’re searching for.
And it’s another reason why Meta is cancer: all the conversations going on about whatever problem you are experiencing that made you do a search in the first place, if they exist in private groups on something like Facebook - they are useless to you and useless to anyone but the members of that private group. We are losing our giant public knowledge base because capitalism.
You really need to add Discord to this list as it is soaking up gigantic amounts of information about video games as a forum replacement. One could argue for actual community games like MMO’s it is perhaps slightly different, but for the majority it is a huge problem.
In 10 years, when we move off discord for “the next big thing” all that info will be gone yet again. It happened to slack and it will most likely happen to discord. None of it will be indexed too. Fun times.
Where are the data hoarders when you need them?
Tools for backing up servers already exist: https://github.com/Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporter But unfortunately discord can’t be easily scraped in one coordinated attempt unlike reddit due to the massive number of private servers and existing verification/anti-bot mechanisms. As a result, only the communities that have data hoarders will be actually archived.
Good link, though not the one I used. I’ve already begun taking measures archiving various chats. Even if Discord lives, my account might not.
But u can login to discord and if the room is public you can see the content. Even if ur logged into FB if ur not in the private group u can’t see the content.
Even if ur logged into FB if ur not in the private group u can’t see the content.
Well yes, that’s entirely the point of the comment above: unlike old school forums, discord is just as useless as Facebook in helping search engines deliver useful content.
I think the point is you can’t put a search term into a search engine and get results from some random Discord. No body is going to go trawling through Discords to then use the search function to potentially find information from it. Now, if chats were somehow archived and could then be searchable, different story, but I don’t think that’s what people using Discord want from Discord.
yeah, this is a problem. But in practice i found that if your searching for one niche problem and your only lead is discord, the people there are going to be kind and help.
I know the pain on having to join something’s discord to get info, but it’s usually fast after I join.
You can see the content, but it isn’t categorized, tagged or organized in any way. If you’re looking for some specific information but you don’t know which server/channel it was discussed on, you’ll never find it.
Yeah I can’t stand discord. Impossible to find anything, constantly feel like I’ve joined a conversation that has been in progress for months so have to scroll up ages to get any sort of context.
I don’t engage socially in random Discord servers, I’m almost certainly just there for an FAQ, to ask a question, or to use Discord’s- pretty decent- search function to find someone who’s had whatever issue I’m having before.
Sidebar from someone who is probrbly just to old to know: How would I go about finding discords that are relevant to my intrests? I am a member on a few servers, but the discovery was always the other way around: I found the invite-link on a website/community that dealt with the topic I was intrested in.
Aren’t you comparing apples and oranges:
If the server is private, then you can’t search it. If the group is private, then you can’t search it.
If it is public you can on either platform but must participate on the platform. That’s what made Reddit unique: lurking was real easy and didn’t require an account.
Reddit keeps asking me to use their app and they are very clearly making the mobile browser version worse and worse.
Just last week I couldn’t view a thread I found on Google without signing in. It wasn’t adult content and didn’t require verifying my age. The reason given was very vague and had something to do with the content not being vetted (despite being old).The Reddit garden wall is already here and is currently being rolled out. For your own good, of course.
I use a browser extension to redirect to old reddit, which doesn’t have all this crap yet
Which extension?
There are some extensions you can try - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=old+reddit+extension+firefox&t=fpas&ia=web
But I’m using LibRedirect - https://libredirect.github.io/
If you’re using Firefox mobile (Android), you could try this https://github.com/octonezd/oldlander
You’re a goddamn life saver
Probably this:
“Unreviewed Content
This community has not been reviewed and might contain content inappropriate for certain viewers. View in the Reddit app to continue.”
Knew I could find it by searching for an in-theaters film followed by “DVD rip reddit”. Behold / old reddit link.
The sub exists to funnel people to a single TinyUrl. Checking the preview instead, I expect it (123movieshd dot club) is a malware distributor.
While reddit’s tactic is coercive, it also functions as a lazy way to fight the reach/effectiveness of spammers.
Yeah it’s true. Too bad. Bye reddit.
Replace the beginning of the url with old.reddit.com. this will get you in.
Sure, for now. They won’t keep that up forever.
Agreed, but it’s been working now for longer than I originally expected. I wonder if some part of their choice base totally relies on that being available…
Use Firefox and there are extensions that block the app request popup. Or you could use tampermonkey or something similar to do it.
I bet that doesn’t work with the login requirements.
The page still loads behind it, usually, there’s just a popup keeping you from accessing it. So I don’t see how they could stop you from just… removing the popup.
Sure, to see a few top-level replies. That’s another part of it, you’ve got to click “see more” several times in order to see every branch of the conversation. None of that is hidden behind the overlay element.
Also, starting in 2018 Google no longer actually searches for the words you entered. Instead, it tries to figure out “what you really mean” and shows results for that. See BERT
“… Google can no longer spider a significant amount…”
What?
“A Web crawler, sometimes called a spider or spiderbot and often shortened to crawler, is an Internet bot that systematically browses the World Wide Web and that is typically operated by search engines for the purpose of Web indexing.”
But I think that’s letting Google off the hook because when I search for things I do get hits, it’s just weird and I get terrible hits. Last week I was looking for something specific and I found five pages in the top 10 that were all variations on each other, to the point that I assume some of them were automatically generated but have no idea which is the actual original source, if any.
And then if I’m searching for something like song lyrics, the top five hits are all sites that require JavaScript to be enabled and AdBlock to be disabled. Of course Google could filter its rankings to bring sites like this out of the top 10.
So I agree with you that capitalism is a huge issue but one specific issue here is that the Google developers don’t care about things that we care about. And other companies such as Apple and Facebook are worse of course.
You can’t just write an essay like that and not tell us what terms you used for your searches
OP: “that movie, with the director”
Google: “… here’s all the movies?”
OP: “noooooo”
Absolutely, at the very least what fucking movie
I mean, they probably used quite a few permutations, if they really did try for anything close to an hour…
I tried " movie woman assassin cold war" and one of the first results was “Atomic Blonde”, which is what I was trying to get at. I then searched “movie two guys solve a murder comedy”, the first link was some IMDb list about comedy/murder films that also had a bunch of buddy cups cop films on it and number 19 on that list was “The Nice Guys”, which is what I was getting at. I would really want to know what this guy searched for because I refuse to believe he spent an hour searching and didn’t find it. I don’t remember the last time that happened to me honestly. Even the two times I tried just now were pretty generic (especially the second one) and yet I found them quickly.
The signal to noise ratio has seemed particularly out of wack with Google lately. The amount of blog spam SEO nonsense that crops up into the top 4 results has been pretty noticeable.
I’m not sure it’s entirely a Google thing. Reddit’s decline has made it harder to find quick answers for, “My washing machine’s making this weird string of beeps?” Niche hobbies moving from forums to Discord chats means, “How do I safely remove a keycap without damaging the switch?” is becoming a pinned message in a server you have to hear about via word of mouth. Basically any technology troubleshooting topic has moved from a blog post / forum to a YouTube video. And a 10 minute long one at that. Gotta hit those higher ad tiers.
For what it’s worth, I’m starting the new year off giving Kagi a try. It’s a startup trying to make a paid search engine work. You get 100 free searches to give it a try. After that it’s $5/mo for 300 searches, or $10/mo for unlimited. I’m not sure I’ll sign up for it just yet, but it seems pretty nice. No ads, custom components for things like Stack Overflow and Reddit, and some other nice touches for people who care about search. Their image search actually has a “View Image” link in addition to the “View Page” link. It’s hard to quantify how “good” a search result is, but I’ve been pretty impressed with it so far.
The last part of your comment sounds like an ad straight out of those overlong YT videos.
Have Brands™ started astroturfing Lemmy yet?
I’m not completely sold on Kagi yet. I’m still in the trial period right now. But paid services can be a tough sell online. I figured I’d be up front about the costs rather than wait for the inevitable “$10 a month for search!?” comment.
I haven’t seen any obvious astroturfing yet, but your last paragraph really did have the vibe of a smoothly transitioned paid promotion. Not saying it was, but even the comments that you haven’t fully bought into it made it feel even more like one of the more honest paid promotions.
I read this same sentiment two days ago; Google doesn’t work for me.
Not sure what they are on about. I can find things I‘m looking for on Google in under a Minute 9 out of 10 times and I tend to use it quite heavily tbh…
if you’re searching for something general, like, i dunno “dishwasher cleaner” or something, it spits out usable results.
but as soon as a query becomes technical in nature, like troubleshooting IT problems, it’s a straight up nightmare.
the reason it’s so bad at searching for anything very specific is their attempt to “figure out what you really mean”:
and google does that by… ignoring what you typed and changing your search prompt behind the scenes without telling you and without any options to change it.
and putting it in quotes rarely improves searches anymore, only spits out more garbage.
point is: google is basically dead for any specific searches and only really works for searches that amount to “i want to buy thing. show me thing.”
I had this weird hardware issue with my desktop and I could not find results for it on Google about a year ago, and I had searched for it a bunch of times previously as well and couldn’t find anything relevant. My boyfriend searched for it on Google on his computer and found a result with the information we needed and i immediately fixed it.
Guessing my “custom” results were poisoned by something at some time, but it prevented me from finding the answer I needed, and I didn’t think to log out at the time.
Super done with Google tbh
Yes, they have
I signed up for Kagi after the trial. I’m very subscription adverse, but this one was something I don’t mind paying for.
That’s because it is.
Kagi is very good and I’m happy to be paying for it, but you were right in your second paragraph. It’s not all google. Signal to noise in the web has gone way off. We need to throw out this Internet, it’s gone bad
It’s a machine learning epidemic. Now that blogspam can be automated in a way that Google can’t even look for without penalizing a ton of sites because people write in a similar style to ML tools, search is basically fucked in its current form. Back to human hand curated webrings.
Also Kagi sucks worse than Google and DDG for a lot of things. I still pay for it, hoping it gets better, plus they have a lot of useful tools.
Yandex.com is where you’ll find movies.
Yeah but it’s owned by Russia
And?
I don’t want the KGB knowing what I’m doing any more than Google
Use tor browser then.
They do have a shitty custom CAPTCHA and it makes tor users do it a few times. You can also just use a decent VPN. Mullvad, Perfect Privacy, OVPN, I’m connected to multiple VPNs like 99% of the time I’m on my computer. On my phone I use tor when I need it.
My washing machine’s making this weird string of beeps?
Oh I got this. You have to put it into diagnostic mode, and then it will flash lights at you, giving you the error codes in binary. I’m not kidding!
For more info you can lift up the top of the machine by unscrewing some screws on the back. There are lots of screws on the back, but only three or four of them attach the top. If you lift the top up you can push the drum back and then slide your hand into the space between the drum and the frame. There’s a ziplock bag in there with the service manual, and it’ll tell you how to spin the knob to enter diagnostic mode. On my Maytag I have to spin the knob R, R, L, R, not to quick, not too slow.
I was blown away when I learned this all. I was having a problem with my clothes not drying, but still the components seemed to be working. I was getting a specific error about one component, but when I tested it it was fine. In my case the problem was where the wires from that component plugged into the control board–it was just slightly loose! So I pushed it in and everything is nominal.
You’re my new favorite person in this comment section.
And this post, being on Lemmy, will be indexable by search engines!
I have a feeling it’s not unrelated to the billions-in-false-charges-for-ads-slash-youtube-ad-debacle.
Tl;dr: google made a billion dollars charging for ads no one saw and then discovered that happened. To avoid being sued they panicked and ensured ads were seen, which had lovely knock-on effects for most of the interwebz.
Remember “anti-trust” laws? Yeah me neither.
Having to join an entire discord server to just find out or download one thing is really, really painful
That’s because everyone thinks they need to post all of their information to discord to get validation instead of maintaining open web accessible blogs that can be archived
I started using Kagi a few months ago and have been really happy with it. It’s completely replaced Google search for me. I think it’s saved me a lot of time and helped me avoid a bunch of advertising I otherwise would have been exposed to. Not being incentivized by advertising money like Google is really makes a difference I think. With Kagi you are the actual customer and search is the actual product, with Google search you are the product and the customer is whoever paid Google to insert advertising into your search results.
It is entirely a google thing. Reddit might’ve helped google hide its limp as it was declining, but it’s google that encouraged websites to write blog spam for SEO, by their very creation of their SEO algorithm. Google has indirectly shaped the internet in this manner.
I remember crunching the numbers with Kagi a couple months ago and most of their plans aren’t worth it, not unless you actually use it at the specified amount. However maybe the packages have changed now, I remember it being something like $5 for 300, $10 for 700 and $27 for unlimited.
It also doesn’t block you when you run out of free searches when you have a package, instead they charge you like 2c per search. So you have to carefully feather your usage to maintain the value - don’t use it enough and the cost per use is high, use it over your limit and the cost per use is high. Frankly, I don’t want all that hassle, particularly with something I’m paying for.
With your new numbers, the $5 package is 1.67c per search, and you’d need to more than 600 searches for the $10 package to beat that rate. However, assuming 2c per search after your 300 in the $5 package, you would hit $10 after 550 searches. So, if the 2c per search is correct, you should upgrade to the $10 unlimited plan only if you’re doing more than 550 searches.
I think they realized their price structure was confusing/annoying towards the end of last year. Now it’s just $5/mo for 300 searches or $10/mo for unlimited. (There’s also still an expensive $25/mo plan for early access to some of their LLM experiments apparently?) You got me curious and I couldn’t find any mention of per-search overage billing. This feature request thread from 2022 just makes it sound like Kagi search gets shut off.
I bouncing hard off of Kagi when they had the original pricing structure you described. Bringing back aughts era SMS overages or just mentally having to count searches doesn’t exactly found like a fun time. I’m going to give the $5 plan a try this month to see how far that gets me. $10/mo is still a tough sell for Internet search. If I really find it substantially better, I might convince my spouse into trying the two seat $14/mo unlimited “Duo” plan for a while.
Maybe paid search engines was the end goal all along…
Someone has to pay for it one way or another. It’s just a matter if you want to pay with money or your personal data being supplied to advertisers.
Yep. If something is “free” for the user, then the user is the product
Well, if it’s from a for profit corporation, anyways, that’s typically the case. Either that or they’re trying to onboard you for an upsell down the line.
are you Kagi seeder ?
So far I am really like kagi. Makes sense to pay for something you use every day, without which the extensive resources on the internet would be basically useless.
A literal ad. Goddamn. I’m blocking your ass.
Could their comment be a highly thoughtful and extrapolation on the current state of affairs regarding search engines and the rise of free to use products where the consumer is the product? Or is the comment just an ad because obviously anything mentioning a brand is immediately an ad with no other thought put into it.
Buddy, companies trying to build up user base aren’t exactly going to push for it in comment sections of a small pocket of the internet. They’ll spend their ad dollars on targeted FB and Reddit ads or buy airtime on new shows to talk about the dangers of data privacy and how Google is selling you out.
Try Brawndo next time you’re looking to water your plants. Brawndo, it’s what plants crave.
This is tough.
1: Kagi is getting some play in Lemmy comments recently.
2: Lemmings are often technology evangelists, making Lemmy a good place to astroturf for very specific products.
3: Companies are better than ever at properly seeding account comment histories to prevent suspicion.
We should all be appropriately skeptical, though somewhat polite can’t hurt either since there’s never proof of anything and I’ve sounded like an ad before.
who honestly pays for a fucking search engine
reads hard like astro turfing
Yeah.
If Google released Google Premium - where teams of offshore workers deranked SEO spam junk - would you give them 99 cents a year to Stop The Madness?
This is that, except it’s a no name, and the cost is far more. But I’d consider the $0.99/yr.*
If that seems more sane… imagine you have plenty of disposable income so whatever the no-name charges is practically free for you. There has to be a market for it. But the resistance will certainly be immense.
*
—
Back to astroturfing…
Anytime Kagi is mentioned I suppose I’ll jump in and say they’re an oft-mentioned brand suspected by at least a handful of users to be astroturfing, although there’s no proof, and SearXNG is a popular non-commercial alternative. I wanted to throw Grasp in to give a commercial competitor a shout but they’ve “paused”.
I do. I use search basically every day and when I’m working I don’t want to waste a bunch of time digging through bullshit if I can help it. Google sucks, $10 a month for a better experience that both saves me time and helps get Google more out of my life is worth it to me.
that reads like an ad so hard lol
I pay for Kagi and it works better than Google. Nobody is astroturfing for them, you’re just paranoid.
Welcome to Costco. I love you
I just ordered a giant thing of cologne from Costco the other day and when it came in I opened the box and said “I love you Costco” as I did it. I looked at my wife and told her Idiocracy was right. I mean, it always has been, but I’m glad Costco loves me too.
For reference, this is not an ad for Costco, or Idiocracy. Although you should totally watch the movie and membership does have its perks. Plus $1.50 hotdogs.
I’m really surprised that you couldn’t find a Hollywood movie in an hour. Can I ask what the movie was? Was there a specific question you couldn’t find the answer for?
I’ve always had the opposite, that a movie having a certain title absolutely destroys that term or phrase’s use unless all you want is that movie.
People trying to look up the Kirby character “Zero Two” to find fan creations based on it…
Only to get barraged with weeb garbage.
Seriously you used to easily find fan content, remixes and music. Now all you get are shitty AMVs of some turbovirgins “Waifu”
turbovirgins
I have never heard this term before… Oh that has me laughing, I can never not associate that with weebs and waifu now
Have all three with zero two kirby search.
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I understand OP’s sentiment that google’s getting worse, but this sounds like ragebait. No examples of what they searched for an hour.
People don’t lie on the internet, it doesn’t happen 🫥
I would ask why op didn’t use IMDb.com or trakt which catalogue every Hollywood movie?
People used to be able to do research. Haven’t they ever heard of the Dewey Decimal system?
You can’t ask, because the OP is just part 1 of an ad
What happened is SEO got good and money got made and fortunes got made and greed has taken over.
The internet today is the equivalent of the first and last 10 pages of the old yellowbooks. Why do you think AAA Auto is called what it’s called?
The American Automobile Association was founded in 1902. Well before the yellow pages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Automobile_Association
Don’t forget AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Towing Service
Oooooh that blew my mind
Because they work on automobiles, duh.
They needed to go scorched earth on SEO years ago. Try anything even vaguely grey-hat, your domain is permanently blacklisted from all search results. No appeals, no second chances, your content will never see the light of day again.
While it’s fun to bash on Google, this might have been a more productive discussion if you had provided your search query and perhaps a sample of the results
I refuse to believe you haven’t been able to find a Hollywood movie after an hour? That sounds more like an issue with you than Google
The biggest issue I have is that half my results come back as videos. Video results should be in the video tab. I don’t want to watch a half hour long video just to find out how to make a healing brew in ark.
One paragraph would convey the information 10x faster than any video couldGoogle was really valuable before web services were so monopolized and consolidated like they are now. It’s almost more useful to use the specific websites search function for many things now. Before this, you could run searches and it would have all these personal and small websites indexed. Oh look, here’s a guy who lives his whole life as Peter Pan and has a website about it, cool… now it’s just a profile on some social media site same as anyone else.
It’s almost more useful to use the specific websites search function for many things now
Except Amazon’s search of their own store has been so enshittified that it’s normally better to search for a product on Amazon using Google.
I do the same except once I find it I go to that specific manufacturer and I buy it directly from their website more often than not
So AliExpress? I swear 95% of the stuff sold on Amazon is just crap people are reselling from AliExpress.
Oh look, here’s a guy who lives his whole life as Peter Pan and has a website about it
Holy shit, I haven’t thought about that guy in something like 20 years! I wonder what he’s up to these days. I like to imagine he and the berries and cream guy are pals.
Him, berries, and the rubber guy are probably all buds.
The early to late 2000s was definitely a special time on the internet. I logged on in the early-mid 90s but I think it peaked in the late 00s. Consolidation of services/monopolies and saturation of smartphones I think killed it. Internet used to be something you did actively, now it’s a thing in your pocket you distract yourself from shitting with that beeps at you all day.
I met a friend’s partner for the first time and she said something funny that had this unique quality I instantly recognized. She was in fact another rare woman /b/tard. We can crack each other up at any moment and our professional colleagues haven’t a clue about this weird online subculture with its twisted sense of humor. It’s not even just repeating memes its like a whole mindset you get infected with for life. You can almost instantly recognize when someone else has had their minds ruined by late 00s 4chan. That type of stuff just doesn’t happen now, it’s just like “hueheu look dis,” “euheuhue omg funny, look dis now hgurhehue.”
I don’t think there’s any value in a style of humour that uses slurs that way.
I was trying to Google “Best way to shave your head with low or no water pressure” because I was staying somewhere rural for a bit and my razor kept clogging.
All I got were straight razor blog spam and dozens of other completely unrelated shit.
I tried the shake it in a bowl method, 1/10 razor still clogged with hair.
I get specifically pissed at all the AI generated answers.
Funny enough, GPT is where I’m going for searches like this now. Whenever my search query doesn’t pull the answer up with one or two clicks, I head to GPT and it finds the info for me.
*makes up the info for you.
You can ask it for sources etc now, it actually does the searching for you now instead of making shit up
By definition, everything it does is “making shit up”. Sometimes that shit is useful, sometimes not. Citations isn’t going to magically fix that, because it’s baked into how a generative AI based on an LLM works.
I always have it provide sources and I vet them. Same as I do Wikipedia. And it hasn’t been wrong about a movie having a post credit scene or not yet, and now I don’t have to read through all those shitty-ass articles that bury the lead somewhere after providing a shit ‘review’ of the movie.
It’s a very solid tool when used correctly, and GPT4 is head and shoulders above 3.5.
I hate it when you google how to do basic things and have to scroll through an entire essay on what that thing is and why you might want to do it.
The same tool made up references to seemingly real legal cases that never existed.
K
You have a brain right? If you ask it for low water pressure shaving tips I think it would be pretty easy to tell if it’s suggesting nonsense.
The problem is that you’ll start trusting it based on a few examples that it was correct, and you’ll be burned by a seemingly correct answer that is really wrong. I tried testing it with simple science and engineering questions and it was garbage.
Interesting, I’ve had the total opposite experience. GPT-4 is reasonable more often than not. I don’t find the “it’s sometimes wrong” argument very compelling because the same is true for 99% of other information sources. I’ve always had to use critical thinking when look for answers online anyway.
You’d think those rural skinhead training camps would have better-engineered facilities
willing to bet google is garbage now because of all the AI-run “blogs” that post unhelpful idiotic filler “articles” on every topic under the sun
edit: i despise this shit so much that i made this dissection of a bullshit AI article: https://i.imgur.com/Hr1wffj.png
I just registered an account here specifically because I’ve noticed it a ton recently and I wanted to reply to this since it’s been on my mind. From my experience, google’s quality has been going down in general for a while now, but very recently (the last few months or so?) it hasn’t been just unusable in a figurative sense, it’s been quite completely literally useless to the point of basically being broken.
I really wish I could remember some specific examples of what I was searching for, but I’ve had more than one experience where it felt like if it couldn’t find something on reddit or wikipedia (which I usually have to give it some assistance anyway with the site: filter), it was like that thing just didn’t exist. It was just pages and pages of what looked like fake AI generated articles that were only maybe slightly adjacent to the topic I was searching for. If it happens again or I can remember a specific case I might try to update my response.
Disclaimer: I use bing 50% of the time depending on which browser profile I have open. No real specific reason here, just that I didn’t bother updating the search engine settings on all profiles. Ironically, bing, which I had always regarded as inferior, does manage to give better results in some cases, but even still I feel like the quality has (somehow?) managed to go down as well.
Lately I’ve been trying to use mojeek, which (to my understanding) unlike other sites like DDG actually has its own crawler whereas most alternatives are just frontends for google/bing. The results are kind of wonky a lot of the time, but at least it’s not so much fake unrelated garbage.
I do have an adblocker on all the time. Perhaps that’s related. Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that my experience is so shitty given that I’m clearly not their target audience, if we’re just talking about advertising.
Just this morning I noticed that ChatGPT (which I usually hate using) was giving me better results than google. Not just in a little way, the experience was about 100x better. Theory: they’re trashing their search engine product to try to force people onto their “AI” products. Probably not that far-fetched. If they really want to push one product over the other you can either make one product a lot better than the other or make the other product a lot worse.
unlike other sites like DDG actually has its own crawler whereas most alternatives are just frontends for google/bing
Just so you know, DDG does have its own webcrawler (DuckDuckBot). It takes results from that, and the Bing API, and other sources, to generate results.
Also, they pay Bing for results from the Bing API (which as I understand it gives configurable access to the Bing index) and so even the results that do come out of Bing are quite different than you’d get compared to just a “frontend for Bing”.
I see, I appreciate the clarification
Welcome!
Check out Kagi!
Seen it recommended quite a few times in other comments here as well, will definitely take a look!
Lately I’ve been trying to use mojeek, which (to my understanding) unlike other sites like DDG actually has its own crawler whereas most alternatives are just frontends for google/bing.
This is correct, there aren’t many, and we recently passed 7.7bn pages. You can actually help with any wonkyness through feedback, but also we have this page which we trial new algos on; there’s a large update sat on it currently.
Yeah, with chatgpt you can search for “thing that was link thing but not like other thing and I think it had these traits” and if it’s not extremely obscure it can find it for you.
Google search failed to even find a hollywood movie, even after 1 hour of attempts.
That’s just not believable. What was your search criteria?
I smell a load of shit from OP
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I’ve had this happen more often recently. An hour, or multiple hours, isn’t unexpected anymore with search engines (not just Google, but Google is the worst offender).
It’s incredibly frustrating.
My job & hobbies involves research 20-30 hours a week, over the last 15+ years. It’s been a gradual decline in quality and usability since 2016 or so. I started complaining about it on forums and reddit, and not many people noticed, or thought the same. Only in the last 5 years or so have I seen others take notice, and even make articles about it.
It’s a real thing, and those of us that do a lot of research for real information that isn’t just today’s news feel it first.
Search engines like Kagi are a light at the end of the tunnel, they tends to actually work.
An hour, or multiple hours, isn’t unexpected anymore with search engines
I’m not debating that search engines are not as good today as they were in the past, but I got to push back hard against the OP, as well as yourself, as far as the temporal measurement in hours, for trying to do a single search.
That’s just not believable. You and the op have to give some real world examples of that.
They’d tell you what the movie was, but they’d have to search for it and don’t want to waste an hour.
Jokes aside, I believe them, I spent close to an hour recently finding a YouTube I knew existed but I could only remember vague details. Ended up having crawl back months though my YouTube history in the end.
It used to be that you could just describe a movie to Google like "movie where " and it would be really good at finding that movie even if it was some obscure one. Now if you’re trying to find that one movie you saw years ago where you just remember one scene, be prepared to spend that hour.
Yeah come on OP let us test what you’re saying.
The long and short of it - Google search was designed at a time when the web was in its infancy. Basically just text and a few images.
Fast forward to today, and reddit is the only one that still allows its data to be crawled.
As media has become more social (basically all of it) the walled gardens prevent you from even viewing content without an account.
Every platform wants you to be searching inside their service.
Google is useless.
It got so bad, I mainly use duckduckgo (95%) as of about two months ago
I don’t get why everyone espouses ddg but shits on bing when bing is the underlying source.
Because you’re in a bubble of “big corporations bad”. Not uncommon on the fediverse for obvious reasons.
It’s a fairly reliable truth.
I don’t really subscribe to that mentality personally. Some are and some are not. Just like people.
DDG is hit and miss for me, its my main SE but if i dont get results i want i switch to google. I have actually searched a website with almost the exact URL (when i wasnt sure about the end of the address) and it gave me zero results for that site, so it definately has its shortcomings.
And bing is fantastic, for video search… Porn.
I’ve been using SearXNG over Duckduckgo lately. It’s a free (as in freedom) aggregator that searches all the engines. It’s not perfect but you know 100% you are not being tracked.
The results are closer to a true old school search of the web. Sometimes it works better, sometimes not as well. It’s best to pick a local instance that has quicker speeds since the main site can be a bit slower than local ones.
This distributed web stuff is really taking off. I like it!
After hearing it for a decade plus I still don’t know what “free as in freedom/free is in beer” actually means
Free beer, like you get a free beer at a party or event, it’s no cost. Free software that costs nothing but is closed source.
Free as in freedom means the user has full access to the source code and is not subject to unknown code like in proprietary software.
Freedom as RMS sees it: https://lemmy.world/post/8134208
I always get confused by this analogy because my mind goes to beer representing open source (the ingredients aren’t secret, and you can brew it yourself if you want to). “Free Coca-cola” would work better, like you’re not paying for it right now but only one company knows how to make it.
Free as in freedom means it doesn’t infringe on privacy (or any other rights) and free as in beer means no financial cost.
It’s open source. The line comes from the early days when people were still arguing over definitions and free vs. open source and GPL vs. BSD, when the concept was new enough to the general public so that they would confuse “free software” for “freeware”: Closed-source software that doesn’t cost any money. By now all that has died down (unless you’re the FSF) and the acronym “FLOSS” was invented, which sidesteps the double meaning of “free” by adding on “libre”. Really they should’ve gone for GLOSS: Gratis, libre, open, source software. If you have a choice in marketing between shiny and dentist, always go for shiny.
(And for the nitpickers yes searxng is AGPL which makes it libre, not just open).
Oh, and speaking of, haven’t looked at it in a long while, there’s yacy, a peer to peer search engine.
It’s the default on all my devices, works just fine.
Another vote for DDG. I honestly didn’t realize Google had gone to shit, because I haven’t used them for anything in the last 5 years (which is wild for me to think about, because I used to be a huge Google fanboy in the G+/Hangouts/Google Now/Nexus era).
It doesn’t allow keywords to be excluded from what I have been able to figure out, and some other minor issues that sometimes makes google easier and quicker to use. Most of the time that is a non-issue however.
when i need to search google i add !g at the beginning
It’s funny how when I jumped to DDG a few years back, I felt like I was sacrificing the quality of results for better privacy.
These days you get the best of both.
Sadly it doesn’t work as well on non-English websites
