Bernie: Here’s a bill that will help literally everyone. People waste less of their lives at work, and productivity goes up massively for the corporate overlords. There is no downside here for anyone.
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
They’ve been telling him that since he was being arrested for protesting for civil rights and Joe Biden was fighting against school busing…
Their stupid bullshit hasn’t stopped him yet
Bernie is still the only politician I have donated to but to be fair to Biden, bussing was met with violent protests and even black activists criticized it for weakening black communities. There were good reasons to be against that method without being against desegregation.
There were good reasons to be against that method without being against desegregation.
That’s not a fact, it’s an opinion.
One that Biden hasn’t been able to rationalize to Dem voters for decades.
If you want to try, give it a shot. I legitimately believe you might do a better job at it than Biden.
But you’re gonna have to do more than say there was “good reasons” besides people of Bidens age being completely ignorant of psychology.
School busing sped up integration by decades, and when kids grow up in multiracial environments it changes their ingroup determination to not just be “people who look like me”.
We can only change that at a very young age, but it sticks with you for life. Even with busing, the effects were decades away.
If we didn’t have busing, generations of people would have suffered.
So if you and Biden want to argue with that, you’re going to have to put in a lot of effort to throw the last 30 years of psychology
It’s not my opinion. It is the opinion of many black civil rights activists at the time. They argued that spreading out the kids would weaken the ties to the black community. They wanted to make black schools better rather than move kids. They argued that strengthening the black community would be the most effective way to pursue civil rights. Given that black children still get inferior education to whites and black communities are impoverished, they might have been right.
Lol.
You can’t try to defend Biden…
So you make up hypothetical Black people and say they didn’t want their kids to go to school with white kids?
Like, you just honestly tried to say it was the Black people being racist, and what’s the implication?
That Biden knew that, lied about why he was against busing as a cover job?
Why not just stop replying instead of that shit you typed?
Black leaders were mixed on the practice. Activist Jesse Jackson, NAACP officials and U.S. Rep. Shirley Chisholm were among those who supported busing efforts and policies. But many Black nationalists argued that focus should instead be placed on strengthening schools in Black communities.
A February 1981 Gallup Poll found 60 percent of Black Americans were in favor of busing, while 30 percent were opposed to it. Among white people surveyed, 17 percent favored busing, and 78 percent were against it.
“It ain’t the bus, it’s us,’’ Jackson told The New York Times in 1981. ‘’Busing is absolutely a code word for desegregation. The forces that have historically been in charge of segregation are now being asked to be in charge of desegregation.’”
Has it been so long that you forgot which side eyounwere arguing?
Or do you legitimately think that backs up your opinion from almost a day ago?
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
Don’t listen to them, when they tell you that. As far as you know, might even be an astroturfer, trying to kill this in the crib.
Call your House of Representative member and let them know that you want this bill to become law.
If we citizens don’t apply the pressure, nothing will happen.
And if your cynical about doing that, try it anyway, just as an experiment, to see what happens. Hell, even make a YouTube video about your experience doing so, for content.
Just say "Please let my representative know that I am in favor of the Bernie Sanders bill (Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act) for a 32 hour work week."
It’s just a phone call. A 32 hour work week is worth a single phone call, right?
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Unfortunately that’s a fairly naive take that fails to consider how most people work in the US- hourly employees would be fucked by this.
Retail, service, anyone whose not already working 9-5 office jobs; the reality is that they won’t loose pay, but they will loose hours. And you can bet your ass that companies won’t pay more to make up for it.
If it’s mandated by law they will. As they do in other countries.
they lose hours but the hourly pay goes up, just like everybody else, no? I haven’t read the bill but I would be surprised if that’s not in there.
Companies already offer part time retail positions, and they are shitty about it. 39.5 hours a week to avoid the full time line.
So in this 32h future they’d just offer 31 hour positions at a lower rate and still yank people around
Edit: I was off on values. Commenter below pointed out 30 is the mark
The Full time Mark is already 30 hours per week measured monthly so not this would not change anything
https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees
Sorry off on values, but they would offer part time. This is common.
So 28-29 hours.
First off, it needs to be noted that the only mechanism to do that on so large a scale is to increase the minimum wage.
Which is how they did it in ‘38 when the work week went to 44, and in ‘40 when it when to what it is today.
The problem is that company are absolutely going to pass that off to customers (aka, the workers… ultimately.) and so really all you’ve done, effectively, is put far more people onto minimum wage.
Anyone who was above that mimimim? Gets the shaft.
And people who now are on minimum? Working two jobs to pay for everything (like most people in the bottom quarter are already doing anyhow,) so they don’t really see reduced hours anyway.
It’s well meaning and it’d be nice, but it needs to be done differently. Unions are strong now. Stronger than they have been since I’ve been working. Join a union. Make the change yourself; eventually it’ll get normalized without the above problems. (Also, better wages, healthcare, workplace safety and everything else Unions get you.)(don’t tell my boss’s boss that. He’s still buthurt from negotiating a new contract.)
The problem is that company are absolutely going to pass that off to customers (aka, the workers… ultimately.)
News flash, they’re going to be raising prices regardless.
And they won’t tack that on, too, anyhow?
Chances are they’ll pass on the costs, increase the price, anyhow, shrink products, and raise prices even more, and then blame the last three on the first.
Exactly like they’ve been doing.
Point is, they’re going to anyway. So why even take that into consideration?
You’re the one bringing it into consideration…
So… why are you bringing it up?
From the article…
The Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act would also protect workers’ pay and benefits to ensure there’s no loss in pay, according to a press release.
Says nothing about loss in hours.
Remember, when you’re paid hourly, you can lose hours and not lose pay.
Unless the employment contract already has guaranteed hours.
Says nothing about loss in hours.
I’m assuming that’s covered as a part of this…
ensure there’s no loss in pay
And you’d be wrong. Companies would still be paying them at whatever rate they were paid at. Most jobs don’t come with specifically guaranteed hours, however.
It’s a technicality, yes, but it’s also a very important distinction. They’re not losing pay. They’re losing hours. The consequence is the same; but short of minimum wage increases; there’s no mechanism for the US Government to dictate wages to individual companies. Particularly when they were never party to that contract in the first place.
If you are correct, then the bill won’t work, because it won’t have the support of all the hourly workers.
I’m assuming that Bernie and Co are smart enough to realize that, so they would make sure any bill that they wrote would cover that scenario that you’re describing, and not just waste all of our time.
That’s why I believe the part of the article I quoted earlier is factual, and covers what you’re speaking about.
I have no idea why you’re being downvoted. How would the government mandate a pay raise across the board? The government only has the federal minimum wage lever to play with. Somehow the law would have to say: all hourly workers must be paid 25% more. Would companies just increase prices by 25%?
Now, I’m all for reducing the work week to 32 hours. I’m tired of spending most of the week working and only having to 2 free days (of which one is usually spent doing home chores). But I’m genuinely curious about how this would be implemented without causing massive inflation.
Raising the minimum wage to account for inflation would give a vast number of people a major raise.
Which has little to do with a 32 hour workweek, and can’t be done on its own even though it really should be done.
Personally the minimum wage should be tied to the cost of living or increased along side CPI or some other useful inflation metric
Simply a one-time jump isn’t going to accomplish all that much in the long run.
Bring it up even to where it was along side inflation, (big jump,) and have an annual little jump baked in each year.
I agree, it has little to do with it. I was just addressing the idea that the federal minimum wage being the only lever to play would not have a massive positive effect on a huge percentage of workers.
The AFL-CIO, which is only demanding a $15/hour minimum wage says that if it kept up with inflation, it would be $24/hour.
https://aflcio.org/what-unions-do/social-economic-justice/minimum-wage
Based on that, the bare minimum someone working full-time should be making is a little less than $50,000 a year. And if the government used that ‘only lever to play,’ and it would still be less than the $68k that is needed to ‘live comfortably.’
https://thehill.com/business/4059025-an-average-american-income-may-no-longer-cut-it/
ive been reading a few things by the AFL-CIO, older stuff, I’d pay attention, though. (And 24 sounds about right.)
I was chatting with the union’s negotiator (technically the enemy, but, whatever. We have a good relationship for that.) now that the new contract is ratified; he’s disappointed because he thought they could get more.
I’m glad the bigwig negotiated they sent out fucked it up every which way. Got my people a much deserved pay raise and stuff.
Seriously, corporations are freaking scared of unions just now. I hope this momentum lasts.
We need this so fucking bad. As a species, not just America or the wealthy nations only. Everyone.
And this should just be a transitionary period down to a 24 or less hour work week. Fuck slaving away at shit jobs just to make billionaires.
We need this so fucking bad.
Of course we do, so do the corporations, though they don’t realize it. With happier workers you get more profits.
Call your House of Representative member and let them know that.
If we citizens don’t apply the pressure, nothing will happen.
And if your cynical about doing that, try it anyway, just as an experiment, to see what happens. Hell, even make a YouTube video about your experience doing so, for content.
Just say "Please let my representative know that I am in favor of the Bernie Sanders bill (Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act) for a 32 hour work week."
It’s just a phone call. A 32 hour work week is worth a single phone call, right?
“but more hours means more productivity %%”
I’m going to go with you forgot to add the /s to your comment.
The quotes provide the same meaning, basically that you are parodying the other side.
Quotes are usually reserved for actually quoting someone else (for example), and not making a statement about parodying the other side.
It’s a pretty commonly used format on many parts of the internet, I think most people would interpret it that way, especially when everybody reading will see that what is being quoted is obviously untrue.
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Well I guess I’m being nuanced here, but I don’t think in this specific case that works out that way, considering what it’s replying to.
In other words I would agree with your interpretation if the reply was parodying something I said directly. Otherwise it just seems something of a non sequitur.
Anyway, I get what you’re trying to communicate towards me, I even agree that sometimes it is using the way you describe. I would just think that’s done the minority of the time, and the majority of the time quotes are used to actually quote someone.
So you’ve never read fiction?
No, in all the decades I’ve been on this planet, I’ve never read one book of fiction of any type whatsoever.
/s
Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Futurama, but you’re going to have to elaborate on this reply, and how it relates to my comment about contacting your house representative.
“I don’t miss twice Campers.”
I loved that line.
I was jokingly suggesting that unhappy workers are actually more productive but in reality I’m 100% with you.
Good idea. I have one little suggestion. Start the conversation with “Fuck Milton Friedman, and fuck your shares.”
When COVID shut down my state (we were considered essential) we got furloughed one day a week. I was getting paid less so I was concerned, but it was honestly the best thing to happen to me. We started a garden, I got so much more done. I was healthier and happier.
Going back to 5 days a week, and longer commute (no more COVID clear freeways), I can absolutely feel my life shortening. I’ve gained a ton of weight, and increased stress significantly.
Looking at the productivity gains, vs income gains since 1970, I would say that we need an 8 hour work week. We are producing well over 7 times as much stuff and economic value as we were in 1970
We should produce less stuff.
The amount of shit that companies produce and then just throw away because it’s cheaper than donating, is staggering. There was some report a while back about Amazon doing this. Truckloads of stuff that doesn’t sell, brand new, straight to the landfill. Stuff that could be donated to public schools or whatever. Fucking gross.
Not to mention all the food we produce, then waste.
That is on third party sellers. They have to pay for warehouse space after a certain amount of time. If something isn’t selling they can pay for Amazon to ship it back or destroy it. Most sellers don’t actually have a warehouse themselves, they have their products shipped directly from the manufacturer to an Amazon warehouse.
Sure, but I honestly don’t care much about the logistics or details of why. The underlying concept is the unnecessary waste. Whatever the reason it’s happening, I disagree with it.
A relative of mine used to work at a private school. The owner of the place wanted to throw an extra computer monitor in the trash. Literally just put it in the dumpster. That relative saved the monitor and now I am using it. Bought a DVI to HDMI cable and it works great. It’s a 1680x1050 situash.
Agreed. The waste factor is appalling
vs income gains since 1970
I hope you do correct for inflation.
I did.
that’s because America shits billionaires.
Nonono don’t do it!!
Just look how it went in Germany, they went from 40 to 35 and then last year they overtook Japan as the 3rd largest economy in the world.
But if they had kept 40 hour work week, they might have done that a year earlier.I tell you 32 hour work week will be an absolute disaster, marriages will break because people will have time to spend together. This is why the christian right will oppose this tooth and nail, and you should too.
/s
Inb4 Fox News later today
I’ll tell you hwat. 32 hour work week will be an absolute disaster, marriages will break because people will have time to spend together. This is why the christian right will oppose this tooth and nail, and you should too.
- Economist who chose to remain anonymous due to fear of liberal cancel culture.
Them being cancelled because they said something dumb doesn’t mean they weren’t cancelled. But I’m convinced economists can’t be cancelled, Jonathan Gruber and Paul Krugman proved that.
The drones might have time to think and get ideas above their station. Next thing you know, they’ll start objecting to being maximally exploited at every turn! Letting them off the leash, even a little, will have disastrous effects for their owners, I tell you!
I am in Germany, how do I get a 35 hour work week without working part time? Every contact I’ve ever had has said 40 hours, not including breaks, with an expectation of overtime going up to 50 hours (legal maximum) unpaid.
OK now I’m confused, because I was pretty sure Germany introduced 35 hour work week already in the 90’s, just like Denmark reduced to 37.5 hours.
Here the 37.5 is actually the norm for full time work. I thought it was 35 in Germany, but I can’t even find anything on the introduction of 35 hours in the 90’s ???But apparently the AVERAGE which is a completely different measure, is 34.2 in 2020.
https://blog.emerald-technology.com/working-hours-germany
34.2 hours as of 2020
I apologize if I misrepresented the situation in Germany.
Dogs and cats, living together! Mass heysteria!
I agree with the sentiment. But the case with Germany and Japan wasn’t so much Germany overtaking but rather Japan sloping down (Japan’s strict working hours/culture probably played a part in this though).
What I’m saying is that there are other factors than work hours that determine productivity. Job satisfaction is a major factor too.
Isn’t Germany the country where they’re burning wood to keep warm in the winter?
Absolutely, wood pellets and stoker furnaces are brilliant, as they work very well, and is a near CO2 neutral source of heat.
We do that too here in Denmark 7th richest country in the world, and I bet they also do in Norway and Switzerland, the 2nd and 3rd richest countries in the world.
We have both stoker furnace for central heating and a windowed stove in the living room for traditional firewood. The brilliance with the stove is that it has higher energy utilization than any other heat source. And it creates hygge in the living room in the long cold winter evenings.Let’s make a point that has nothing whatsoever to do with the original point so i can maintain my bullshit opinion.
I don’t see a path forward that doesn’t start with the US government making the change first. They are one of the only employers that don’t have market competition.
Some departments in the US government give you a paid time off day every week to use however you want. A lot of people would take every Friday off, or some would stash them for a longer vacation.
It’s wild to me how internally the government offers the kind of benefits politicians should’ve pushed into law a long time ago. It really is “for Me, not for Thee”.
Source: worked in one of those departments
I work in the Federal Government, and this isn’t true. You have alternative work schedules (4/10s, 5/4/9, maxiflex, etc.) but you’re still going to work 80 hours unless you take leave. You gain annual leave every pay period and the amount is dependent on how long your federal service has been. But when you start (1-3 years) you only get 4 hours per pay period.
Maybe you’re seeing people who have long federal service (15 years) that gain 8 hours/pay period use their leave. That’s their choice but they’re still working 40 hours on paper regardless.
Literally everything US politicians and billionaires do is “rules for thee, but not for me”. Even running for president.
Which jobs give you four day weeks as of now?
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Not trying to call you out or anything, just my googlefu couldn’t find anything about any government jobs that did this. All I found was companies and other countries that were trying it out.
I feel like it would be big news if that was an option for people seeking employment anywhere.
They don’t. A few offices have a 40 hour 4 day week. They are missing shit up.
The only ones I know of that do this have you work four 10s. You still work the 40 hours.
Giving a benefit to government workers only requires a president to write an executive order.
Making a benefit into a law that affects all workers requires the House, Senate, President, and SCOTUS to all get on board.
Definitely true, but you never hear conservatives complaining about all the paid leave they get or the healthcare benefits they enjoy.
If some conservative president really wanted to walk the talk, they’d axe all those benefits for everyone.
They are walking the talk; they do not believe all people deserve equal treatment. Their worldview is inherently hierarchical.
wow, that’s like two and a half months of vacation
Some departments in the US government give you a paid time off day every week to use however you want. A lot of people would take every Friday off, or some would stash them for a longer vacation.
Nope.
Source: worked in one of those departments
If you did, you had no idea what was going on.
An agency can’t just “give” someone twice the leave accrual as the max. People were probably doing 4 days a week, 10 hours a day.
And you just didn’t understand
Bullshit. Fake news. Made up.
I had a US colleague that was ranting to me (a European) that people would still take calls just before having surgery and the moment the anastatics would have worn off work again. So I asked why not root for Bernie as he wants to do a more Scandinavian model (did not use the world socialism because reasons). Answer was no, would not be able to vote for him. Well…
Man, you’re talking about a “radical”, “extremist” politician who self-identifies as a (democratic) socialist.
Here in the US, most people from the poorest, least-educated states will simply never vote for a Democrat. That’s not an exaggeration. The only reason Nikki Haley got so much attention despite never being viable is because with our 2-Party system she was considered the only non-Trump option for many people in these flyover states. Add in the outsized influence they have in the Senate and the undemocratic Electrical College… We’re fucked.
I hear you my internet friend. Add to the fact that republicans want to keep their supporters dumb by further undermining education and it starts to look quite grim. Reforming the current 2 party system and electoral collage would be a common sense thing to do, but I fear this is only wishful thinking. Large corps with infinite money will keep driving the direction of a country and the politicians are just the workforce for them to execute on it. Same goes for the foreign influence (read Putin’s clerk boy Trump).
Now more paries does not mean better either. I mean I look at how things go in my country where we have over a dozen parties, ans now 4 of them trying to form a coalition, takes months. And unfortunately also here we are going further to the right and slowly embrace fascism.
Time for a new french style revolution I guess…
Sometimes I imagine what America would be like if Bernie had enough votes to pass his bills.
I always vote for him when he’s at the polls, since 2 decades ago. But the oligarchy of this nation will never allow him in position of power to implement these changes.
The reality of America is that our owners have no interest in making life better for the us, the common man, their only interest to bleed us as much as they can for their own selfish agenda. And the American people are collectively still too stupid to understand how it all works.
Incomplete article by The Hill… Actually, the more I look at it this is a bad article. The only current bill introduced to the Congress is from last year by a different Representative. Bernie put out yesterday (the 13th) that he will be introducing a bill on Thursday the 14th (2024-03-14). It’s only 0600 local time Washington, D.C. so it hasn’t happened yet. And it would be very strange to he is introducing another act in the same session (118th).
H.R.1332 - Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act since they couldn’t even link to the bill.
Congress.gov has the sponsor as Rep. Takano, Mark [D-CA-39] (Introduced 03/01/2023).
Long title: Official Title as Introduced
To amend the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 to reduce the standard workweek from 40 hours per week to 32 hours per week, and for other purposes.
Bernie is an example of what a progressive politician actually looks like.
American politicians (Republicans AND Democrats) have been moving steadily to the right for the last 40 years. So now, Democrats are where the Republicans were in the 1980s, boring corporatists and friends of banks, pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
And the Republicans have moved all the way into an insane asylum. They long for the “good old days” of company towns, run by 19th century robber barons and worry that the six corporations that control all our news are the “liberal news media.”
I’ve noticed that I get the same amount of work done working 5 days a week as if I plan to only work 3/4 days and know I’ll have some free time to enjoy life. My work is really project based so as long as it gets done no one cares.
My wife has also noticed that I’m a lot more stressed when I work 5 days a week and need pretty much the whole weekend to recover.
It’s LONG overdue. Been saying this for years. Reducing the stress, increasing free time (and therefore things like family time, innovation time, etc.) would vastly overhaul our society. Productivity has risen for decades while wages remain stagnant and work-life balance, if anything, has worsened.
Productivity has risen for decades while wages remain stagnant and work-life balance, if anything, has worsened.
Wages are determined by balance of power.
work-life balance, if anything, has worsened.
I don’t believe that(but that’s just my gut feeling). I think its fair to say that demand of work-life balance has increased though.
Depends on the field but since the pandemic I see folks being"connected" to work in unimaginable ways where they are constantly answering emails or working from home to complete work in their evenings and weekends. Just logging into teams at anytime on a weekend I can see at least a few people online working. This wasn’t the case pre pandemic.
There was a time when if someone wanted to reach you after hours they had to call your house and leave a message on your answering machine. now you have “bosses” that get pissy if you take 5 minutes to respond to a text in the middle of the night.
This will never pass because we aren’t seen as people with families and lives. We’re seen as labor. Tools to keep the machine running and making money for corporations and its executives.
While a small tangent, I agree. I used to work 4x10 each week. Had done that for over a decade. Having a 3 day weekend really helped. When I got my current position I was moved to 5x8. I’m now endlessly tired, I can’t get the weekend projects done, etc. Because you’re just getting out of work, or getting ready to start work again, there’s no break. So if this ends up being 4x8, that would be great! Keep my hours and get my weekend back. Though I assume corporate USA will find some way to muck it up, like the RTO bullshit.
I totally feel you! I did 12h shifts 4 days a week the absolute difference with 5x8 in crazy! I’ve never been so tired and that’s including my night time stint doing that as well!
America should make Bernie their Emperor.
The only way that we can remain competitive in the global marketplace is to squeeze the workers to the greatest extent that biology will allow. If that means slavery, mind control and death-at-30 then so be it. We must remain competitive
“Step into my office.”
“Why…”
“BECAUSE YOU’RE FUCKING FIRED!”
Written in our universes language: “Bernie Sanders released a plan that will absolutely never happen and caused literally every single person that isn’t a worker to laugh until they couldn’t breathe anymore.”
Written in our universes language: “Bernie Sanders released a plan that will absolutely never happen and caused literally every single person that isn’t a worker to laugh until they couldn’t breathe anymore.”
I’m failing to see the problem here - most people are “workers” and this will benefit them. Anyone not workers will… presumably die from laughing? Win/Win - what’s the issue?
The issue is the government is run by
parasitesnon-workers and anyone who wants to even stand a chance needs funding fromparasitesnon-workers.If only they really would stop breathing, that would be nice lol
The issue is the government is run by parasites non-workers and anyone who wants to even stand a chance needs funding from parasites non-workers.
If only they really would stop breathing, that would be nice lol
Ending a statement with “lol” always reads like nervous laughter to me. You’re fine. Well, you seem to have a head full of some interesting non-information backed conclusions, but that’s not the end of the world. The posibility you might change your mind exists so I’m not going to freak out over that.
Relax. Everything is going to be ok.
It’s a bit of nervous laughter sometimes, but it’s more to show that it’s just meant as light hearted and a bit of a joke. I don’t really wish death on anyone.
As for the rest, it’s exasperation. Venting about the state of things and how they appear. My own ignorance and all that jazz.
I wonder how fox news spins this? Maybe commies want more free stuff from money we dont have i suppose. or maybe they just ignore it
