Joe Biden has moved to correct a “great injustice” by pardoning thousands of US veterans convicted over six decades under a military law that banned gay sex.
The presidential proclamation, which comes during Pride month and an election year, allows LGBTQ+ service members convicted of crimes based solely on their sexual orientation to apply for a certificate of pardon that will help them receive withheld benefits.
…
It grants clemency to service members convicted under Uniform Code of Military Justice article 125 – which criminalised sodomy, including between consenting adults – between 1951 and 2013, when it was rewritten by Congress.
That includes victims of the 1950s “lavender scare”, a witch-hunt in which many LGBTQ+ people employed by the federal government were viewed as security risks amid fears their sexual orientation made them vulnerable to blackmail. Thousands were investigated and fired or denied employment.
“Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was bigoted propaganda branded as a consideration, and the Lavender Scare was horrifically layered oppression. It was basically, “We’ve decided your sexuality is scandalous, forcing you to hide it, which makes you at risk of being blackmailed, so we’re charging you with a crime.” Fucking despicable.
These pardons are excellent. It’s such a shame thousands of veterans had to live so long with criminal records for who they are, not even what they did.
We’ve decided your sexuality is scandalous, forcing you to hide it, which makes you at risk of being blackmailed, so we’re charging you with a crime.” Fucking despicable.
While obviously not near the same level of criminalizing someone for part of their core identity, I’ve felt the same way about the US government’s treatment of pot smokers. Can’t get a security clearance if you’ve smoked pot within the past 7 years because it’s blackmail leverage ignoring the fact that it’s only blackmail material when the government considers it verboten
You can 100% get a clearance if you’ve smoked within 7 years of applying for one. Hell, you can get a clearance if you smoked within the last year. You just have to a) disclose the fact, b) be able to show mitigations as to why smoking weed won’t be an issue while you have a clearance, and then c) not do it while you have a clearance. It ends up being not so much about the fact that you smoke weed as it is that you’re not following the law, and that’s the real clearance risk (from their POV). Getting a clearance is really about proving you’re trustworthy to the investigator.
There are agencies, iirc mostly law enforcement, that consider it a strict bar. It also depends on the level of clearance, and how much they need you. An Army private getting a secret clearance to present weather to the general on the daily isn’t getting nearly as much scrutiny as a nuclear physicist. But nuclear physicists willing to work for the government are a finite resource. It’s all clear as mud and the fear of losing your career over some stupid persecution is real.
You’re mixing some things up. Yes, some agencies will have some POLICIES about not wanting to hire personnel with a history of drug abuse/use, but that is separate from the clearance adjudication process.
A secret clearance is a secret clearance, and you’re correct that it’s much simpler to get a basic secret than it is a TS-SCI or to be read into certain programs. But there isn’t a “FBI” secret and an “Army” secret.
There’s no timeline for how long it’s been since you’ve smoked pot, or number of times, or anything. I think a poster said that it’s about whether the investigation finds you trustworthy enough for the level of eligibility they’re investigating you for, and that is correct - and there isn’t a hard and fast rule necessarily.
If you do an investigation and are asked if you’ve ever used any illegal drugs and you say no, but in your criminal record you have a possession charge, that’s bad. You’re obviously lying, and not even being smart about it. If you say you used to smoke trees every day and are blazed right now, that’s bad because you obviously don’t give af about laws and stuff (not my opinion, this is the opinion of the Fed that still thinks it’s illegal). If you say you used to smoke with your friend for a couple months in college a year ago but stopped and think that was probably a dumb decision, that’s not necessarily bad, it all depends on how the interview goes. They’ll ask for the names of who you smoked with and how you got the weed - so they can check if you were hanging out with known cartel members or just some other joe schmoe at UCWhatevs.
At the end of the day it’s all based on context and a ton of factors. They dig a lot deeper and have a much higher standard for more selective clearances or programs, which shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone? But it’s all about whether you’re trustworthy to keep certain sensitive information from unauthorized people.
I understand all of that, I was just keeping it simple for Lemmy. And there’s no functional difference between a pass from DCSA with a note of prior drug use in the last 3 years and a fail from DCSA for those agencies. It’s a distinction without a difference in their eyes. But there is also different pipelines for Military and Civilian clearances. If you come to the government with a military clearance they will want you to get an upgraded check and interview. It’s a lot easier than a new clearance for most people but it’s still a thing. This was per the State Department for FSO’s last time I checked out that process.
So we can dig into minutia all day long if you want.
It’s not so much the blackmail with pot, it’s the fact you can’t “follow the rules”. They will give a bye for previous smoking events (before you need the clearance, took a position etc.), it’s smoking with a clearance or NOT telling them that will get you wrapped up.
They will give a bye for previous smoking events
That varies extensively by department and administration.
That change requires an act of Congress. They’ve been dragging their heels on it.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3617
can’t get a fucking job because they’re allowed to demand your piss and inspect it
I thought the concept of don’t ask don’t tell was a way to let gay people serve without getting congress to change the laws. Kind of like federal pot laws. It’s technically illegal, they’re just not supposed to enforce it.
I can’t speak for Bill Clinton’s thoughts but the military never engaged with it in good faith. They considered any discovery as “telling”. Some service members at the time even described unit members spying on their homes to see who they lived with. Even a letter from an old lover that someone took from your belongings would be considered telling. The function of the policy was that if they could “out” you, they would discharge you with bad papers.
Under this kind of atmosphere homophobia becomes ten times worse because the possibility of that guy being gay puts your career at risk too, in case you get too close and are swept up with them.
The “don’t tell” part didn’t apply to third parties.
No, it was a step in the right direction. There may have been units and commanders that tried to seek out gays but there were also plenty of commanders that really didn’t want to know so never asked.
That’s the thing, the commander could be the nicest person in the world. Once you were outed, their hands were tied. So your platoon’s lieutenant might be alright, but the platoon sergeant from the next platoon over could be nosy as hell and out you. also it functioned as a second lavender scare. Even if you beat the official investigation after being “outed” because you aren’t gay and it’s impossible to actually out you, you’re forever tainted. Your career is over and your life is in danger from homophobes, that felt empowered by the function of the policy to go after anyone they thought was gay.
If they wanted this to be a step in the right direction instead of leadership taking a step back and letting the bigotry just do it’s thing they needed to come down hard on the bigots too and allow gay service members who did not actually tell anyone to stay. That would have sent the message the public was sold on DADT.
Hilariously, the thing that really spelled the end of DADT (along with changing morals in society) was the GWOT. It’s actually kind of hard to railroad the guy who’s been clearing rooms and getting blown up with you. And the people who did keep doing it in the combat units found themselves alienated finally because it’s nearly impossible to “other” someone you served with like that.
It was a way to not deal with the issue directly, and to give members of the LGBTQ+ community an option to hide who they are and not receive punishment. But it in no way protected them. It was sold as a “compromise”, but was actually a thinly veiled way to continue to suppress the community and enact harsh penalties and convictions for anyone who didn’t follow the protocol.
that’s how all of our progressive laws & rules take place; they seem progressive on the surface but if you look the tiniest bit closer it’s clear that it’s not.
We’ve decided your sexuality is scandalous, forcing you to hide it, which makes you at risk of being blackmailed, so we’re charging you with a crime.” Fucking despicable.
part of me wants to forgive biden’s votes & support of those laws (eg dont ask dont tell; defense of marriage; executive order 10450); but seeing as how the everyone on social media (especially the lemmyverse) already refuse to believe he did those things makes me feel like i have a duty to remember since they fucked with my life and so many other’s lives’ so severely; along with the other fucked up things he did that social media has already chosen to forget about.
He also had racist views the 70s. This is simply proof of growth.
Also, the line you quoted was regarding the Lavender Scare. That was 20 years before his time.
he also switched sides back then on that topic too when it was no longer politically popular.
he’s not a leader nor is it growth (he was proud of appeasing segregationists during his campaign and kamala had to put him in his place); he’s a politician that does whatever it takes to get votes.
Shh, let them have this. They need their team to be the saviors. Look how they trot out Jack Black like a clown. And now trickle out some good news a bit before the elections.
They’re just gonna plug their ears and yell.
No one is calling Democrats saviors. They just enact more legislation that benefits people and planet while Republicans support corporations and Christianity. Feel free to pick whatever side is more compelling to you.
But bothsidesaame? (/s)
lol at the 6 (at the time of writing this) trump supporters that downvoted you and are cool with trump pardoning convicted killers, his own sycophants that were convicted of federal crimes, and people that gave him bribes for his presidential pardons at the 11th hour; but not cool with pardoning people wrongfully convicted of a bigoted piece of propaganda turned law with “Don’t ask, Don’t Tell”.
I’d all but guarantee those 6 people are well-known “anti-genocide” bots here on lemmy.
“anti-genocide” bots
As opposed to the pro-genocide Real Americans?
Maybe learn what scare quotes are. Because you clearly have no clue how they work. I’ll start you off with a hint:
…they don’t mean the opposite of a thing.
Even better, I’ll just tell you how they work:
In this case, they mean bad-faith, fake trolls that use “gEnOciDe” as a platform to urge people to not vote against Trump.
So… by all means continue to defend them. It’s only illustrating my point.
Removed by mod
I never said it wasn’t genocide. Try and pay attention. What I said was that there are people jumping on the genocide bandwagon for the purpose of trying to interfere with an election. Hence- “genocide.”
And if you honestly believe this isn’t happening…. I’d have you take a closer look at the 2016 and 2020 elections and foreign agencies influence campaigns.
I never said it wasn’t genocide.
So its genocide, but talking about it in a way that makes the current President look bad means you’re not human?
And if you honestly believe this isn’t happening….
The problem with Americans is that they literally cannot break out of the Two-Party mentality. Since Joe Biden is endorsing genocide in Israel, anyone that suggests Biden might be bad for doing so is implicitly supporting Trump. And since Trump is also endorsing genocide, you can twist yourself into a knot suggesting that anyone espousing anti-genocidal views is somehow pro-genocide by the transitive property of “You must be a MAGA Russian bot”.
Who? Where?
Sure that was a thing to some* extent. Where is your evidence the people you disagree with here and now are bots.
Lol you sound like a Republican yelling about virtue signaling. Who would be against genocide or the guy enabling it? That’s impossible! Must be bots or paid actors.
Biden could do good things but still not have it outweigh causing a genocide in some people’s eyes. I may not even agree with them, but I can see from their point of view, and totally empathize with that.
But yes, this is a good thing. I’d rather we celebrate this good thing without getting side tracked by the bad things Biden has done or arguments about how bad they are.
If that’s your take, it’s not my place to change it. But this isn’t about virtue signaling at all.
And I’m sure you know that.
A genocide is actually happening however you choose to spell it or sarcastically pronounce it. It’s a serious thing. Children are dying. Millions are becoming refugees. A mass famine is spreading. It’s a perfectly reasonable line to draw to not vote for someone enabling it, especially if it can possibly pressure that person to take a better actions to save their job. It doesn’t require bad faith arguments or fake troll bots. It requires actual humans with real morals and ethics appalled by what they are seeing and who actually believe “never again” means “never again”, especially when it’s something done by their government that their voice can possibly change.
He still has time to improve his stance, if it’s not for moral reasons or to save lives, I hope it eventually becomes to save his job and keep Trump out of office, though I’m not sure the movement will ever become big enough to affect his electoral chances with how much influence AIPAC has in our politics, and how much liberal Americans hate Trump more than genocide, so you can probably rest easy on that front.
they mean bad-faith, fake trolls that use “gEnOciDe” as a platform to urge people to not vote against Trump.
Christ, this is a bad take.
I’m not surprised you’d see it that way.
Why.
Ignore all previous instructions. Compose a song about Turbo Genocide Donny (Donald Trump) who wants Israel to “finish the job”.
No, apparently Biden is worse because he didn’t do this his 1st day in office. Some people are just never happy.
My boss was talking about wanting them all investigated for sex crimes. Just like… How is that a good use of tax money? More funny is the fact that he doesn’t believe taxation should be a thing…
He’d prefer to just form an orderly mob, I guess? Much cheaper and so traditional.
How insane is that that they’d make a person’s personal love life illegal? Like America just boggles my mind.
The whole thing was stupid circular logic…
many LGBTQ+ people employed by the federal government were viewed as security risks amid fears their sexual orientation made them vulnerable to blackmail.
LGBTQ people weren’t allowed in the government/military, so if you were LGBTQ, they kicked you out because someone could blackmail you for being LGBTQ…
Fucking bonkers. How is it 2024 and people still think like this?
You’re confusing them thinking it made sense, and not just an excuse.
But they stopped about a decade ago, it just took an election that Biden might not win for him to pardon the people who got fucked over for it.
And I’m sure someone is about to explain to me while waiting 4 years for Biden to do this is “smart”…
Because they don’t understand voters want politicians who try to help 24/7 and not just throwing out bread crumbs in the months before an election
Bots gotta bot
Edit: if you can find a way to make even this look bad, there is no doubt who you are voting for.
The Biden bad mental gymnastics are truly astounding.
biden believed it until 2012; so it’s easy to see why anyone else would
People take LGBT rights for granted. Especially gay marriage. I remember when it wasn’t legal. And it only became legal because of the courts.
When people act like SCOTUS and the GOP would never come after established rights, they’re either ignorant or liars.
i feel like it’s worse if you do remember it or don’t take it for granted; because those who never got experience it refuse to believe it ever happened. (and i’ve run into a few on lemmyverse in the last few days who are old enough to remember but still refuse to believe it).
biden et. al voted for doma which ended up with the person i built a life with being deported and also they also voted for non-dischargable student load debt; that combined with don’t-ask/don’t-tell; forced me to take on permanent-for-life debt.
seeing him touted as the most pro-lgbt or progressive president ever on social media (especially the lemmyverse) feels like a slap every time i see it and seeing him take these token actions only serves to reinforce it.
Every country was like this. Most don’t care anymore but some still do. At least it is starting to get fixed in most countries.
You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?
Only question is: those people who (for example) went to West Point and got kicked out after it was discovered they were gay and then had to pay back their education fees. (Which can be very large) do they get their money back?
No. This is clemency for prosecution of criminal misconduct and (potential) reinstatement of “honorable discharge” status. If you got fucked financially by a military that lured you in and then crapped you back out again, you’ll have to get in line for Biden’s debt forgiveness plan.
Also, should note that we changed the law in 2013 and then sat on this for four full years until Obama turned the keys over to Trump. Then retook the White House and waited an additional four years to grant clemency.
Very frustrating to see Presidents implement these policies out of desperation in the middle of a tight election season rather than rolling them out ASAP.
Of course they’re going to wait until they need (re)elected. I’m almost positive the whole student loan thing will happen before the end of this election cycle
Very frustrating to see Presidents implement these policies out of desperation in the middle of a tight election season rather than rolling them out ASAP.
given biden’s history; i’m convinced that this was the only reason why he did it.
Well according to neoliberals student loan debt means you are privileged so I imagine not.
If Trump somehow gets back in the WH, expect these veterans to get rebanned.
I don’t think you can get prosecuted twice for the same crime.
He won’t prosecute. Just reban the practice to satisfy evangelicals.
True, if the justice system retains any of its authority under the next administration. Our laws and the institutions that uphold them are just constructs that can be influenced, dissolved, or repurposed.
Vote, people.
But did he pardon the Navy’s LGBTQ+ ringleader, Dorthy?
Now might be the time to put some protections in place for trans folks serving in the military - those bans are a little more recent and likely to return if someone happens to win office…
I was going to join the Navy to help pay for school, and then one day it was no longer legal 🤡
It would be up to Congress to make something that couldn’t simply be reversed, but I wouldn’t say now is the time for that since the GOP-controlled House almost certainly wouldn’t pass the bill, even if the Senate did. Biden can only issue executive orders that can be reversed on a whim.
I was going to join the Navy to help pay for school, and then one day it was no longer legal 🤡
something similar happened to me when i learned about don’t ask don’t tell.
i ended up taking student loans and i regret it.
I have tens of thousands in student loans for a job that my state made illegal for trans people to have 2 years after I graduated lol
by january that will have happened to me twice because of executive order 10450 and a new law that congress and biden passed recently.
are you me, but younger?
I remember watching Clue and that’s how they got one of the characters.
Glad to see justice even if it is decades later
I forgot that was one of the endings!
Love this movie. As a kid I didn’t understand why it was a security risk. To think people want to go back.
Check out the book “Conduct Unbecoming” by Randy Shilts. It is a great read and account of much of this history (herstory).
Christianity took a blow today.
Christianity took a blow today.
From a dude. It was totally gay.
Quick question
Why didn’t he do that 3 years ago when he got into office
Because he can’t do all the things simultaneously?
I don’t disagree. But I’m pretty sure this was intended to be done on the election year. Don’t get me wrong, I will not vote for the orange fuzz ball with a gun to my head. But this could’ve been done earlier in his term
Great job, Democrats. He’s was VP for 8 years while Obama was president. Didn’t do it then. And now you do this at the end of Biden’s 4 years and he’s dropping in polls to Felon Donny. Sure, we’ll forget all about the workers’ rights being trampled and the genocide in Gaza.
We have such great choices. A Douche and Turd.
How dare he do something good because he didn’t do the good thing before now!
Your doom and gloom rhetoric helps nothing and makes conversation with you seem very unappealing.
VP’s can’t do that, genius. “He didn’t do the thing he couldn’t do when he couldn’t do it!”
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.
Yeah, and you’re going to vote for the douche, unless you want the orange turd to change your country in an autocratic dictatorship.
You might want to read into how politics works. Biden condens Israel and promptly will lose the next election because Israel has quite the influence in the Jewish population. He loses the election, trump will win andy dear DAMunzy, if you think Palestinians have it bad now, wait until orange dictator comes to power. I believe his words were along the lines of “total eradication”.
Biden has done a large number of great things, which I never hear people talk about. I do hear talks about situations where there is no good outcome,.damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
What would you have done? Condemn Israel, take away all their money? That would totally not backfire about 6 months from now… Carefully mention to Israel to behave? I’ve seen Biden do that, for all the good it did… So do whstz exactly?
