sigh
Are they TRYING to speedrun losing their credibility?
Remember: Mozilla killed mozilla the app long before it killed Mozilla the company.
Right so what browser should I use now??? 😡
Another org may fork popular software like Firefox, like OpenOffice vs libre office for example.
In the meantime we’re going full text interfaces by 2030 to save cycles for the env, https://man.archlinux.org/man/lynx.1.en /s
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I am more and more satisfied with my decision to use Brave years ago despite all the haters.
If you’re using Brave as an ethical stance, HAHAHAHAHHAAHHA fuck me that’s a good one
I’m not usually one to do this sort of thing but you’re saying the browser created by a guy who got fired from Mozilla in 2014 for donating to orgs against gay marriage is more ethical to use than firefox?
I’m saying using the browser that aims to put privacy first is better than Firefox, yes. I don’t really care about the past personal beliefs of the staff because that doesn’t actually make any difference on the product itself, it’s just virtue signaling. I’ll keep using Brave which values my privacy, you can keep using whatever the hell other browser you want that doesn’t. Simple as that.
Librewolf it is then.
Well considering Brave secretly whitelisted Facebook trackers in the past without telling people I’d say they’re not really the best option when it comes to the whole valuing privacy thing. That’s not about personal beliefs it’s about them doing things that deliberately compromise users’ privacy.
One more voice to the pile-on:
You should never use something “despite the haters.” You should instead
- Listen to the haters’ points (should there be any)
- Synthesize the information into your understanding
- Identify any cognitive dissonance with your choice if it arises
- And if it does, choose to use the browser despite its flaws.
Case in point, I still use Mozilla’s Firefox despite its flaws.
So brave.
That’s far. I just wish it wasn’t chrome
It’s truly wild how hard of a heel turn mozilla has taken. I’m going to cancel my recurring donations to them, and get off all of their products.
Why would you donate to a company? I assume you are talking about the non profit
Because they are a non profit which makes stuff one likes?
Firefox isn’t made by the non-profit. What do you like that the foundation does such that they’d deserve a donation over a shit ton of open-source projects that need funding?
People are digging up a bunch of old shit right now
September 18, 2024 is “old shit”?
Well, it was already posted here, and i just saw an article from 2021 about something bad mozilla allegedly did
A few months ago, Steve Teixeira’s lawsuit became public knowledge, if that’s what you’re thinking of.
no, it was something else
holy shit you donated money to these wackos?
with so many OOS projects out there in need of funding, so many devs roughing it up, you donate to the advertising company Mozilla that has zero cash needs, they give million dollar bonuses to their executives every year.
Literally giving money to wacko rich executives
Haha hard to believe people are actually donating to Mozilla so that they can spend that money on political donations, exec salaries, and useless projects they kill shortly afterwards.
It’s almost like they are intentionally trying to get in trouble.
I feel like the CEO of Mozilla is paid by Google to be as fucking stupid as possible.
To be fair I believe being as fucking stupid as possible is a prerequisite of being a CEO of anything.
I dunno, a lot of CEO’s are probably laughing all the way to the bank.
There are a lot of wealthy people who are morons.
I hope discovery finds something obvious to this effect, or we’re all going to have a bad time in the near future
Fucking stop with this conspiracy theory already, i’m reading it for the third time this thread. As if CEOs can’t make bad decisions and there has to be a “realll11” reason.
Honestly. Even my most cynical assumption was that Mozilla would subtly pressure him to leave the company, making life harder for him in ways that wouldn’t be possible to legally prove.
I haven’t seen anything this egregious since Elon Musk fired Halli.
No no, guys Mozilla are the good guys. They never did something nasty like bundling tons of spyware and 3rd party calls with Firefox nor adding unique IDs to every installation. Mozilla also acquired an ad analytics company recently for some reason.
Wtf happened in the last month? Everyone used to love and jerk off Mozilla and suddenly we hate them?
Nothing, not everyone liked it, the only difference is that my comment would result in a shit show of downvotes last week while not people are starting to realize what Mozilla/Firefox really is. Mozilla was never the “all savior” pained them to be and it only took Wireshark and a couple of minutes to see it.
Even if Mozilla/Firefox was at some point a healthy organization, the shear incredible disparity of power between Google and Mozilla/Firefox means that the probability that Mozilla/Firefox would remain a healthy, functional organization approaches zero over a long enough period of time.
This is a problem that needs legislative action to destroy Google’s incredible power and pseudo-monopoly control of search.
I am not saying Mozilla/Firefox isn’t toxic, but there a million ways that Mozilla/Firefox could end up a toxic entity and billions of dollars that are directly interested in that being the case so shrugs.
…but yeah I agree with you, Mozilla/Firefox definitely didnt turn into a shithole overnight, but until recently criticizing them has been very difficuly to do in a lot of circles.
adding unique IDs to every installation.
I wasn’t familiar with that so I did a quick search. For anyone else interested here is some info about it:
- Each Firefox download has a unique identifier -ghacks, Mar. 2022
“Internet users who download the Firefox web browser from the official Mozilla website get a unique identifier attached to the installer that is submitted to Mozilla on install and first run.”
[…]
“Firefox users who prefer to download the browser without the unique identifier may do so in the following two ways:”
-
Download the Firefox installer from Mozilla’s HTTPS repository (formerly the FTP repository).
-
Download Firefox from third-party download sites that host the installer, e.g., from Softonic.
“The downloaded installers do not have the unique identifier, as they are identical whenever they are downloaded.”
In the comments section someone says:
“It seems that getting Firefox from GNU/Linux repos (Debian, etc.), doesn’t come with unique IDs.”
Must be for ad attribution and install tracking. Only something a major portion of their users are specifically trying to avoid when they’re choosing Firefox.
Yeah repositories and FTP don’t include that, but it is kind shady that the first way to get it (website) for the majority of regular users (Windows/macOS) has a unique ID - after all this is the company that goes all in for privacy…
bundling tons of spyware
I couldn’t find any info about this with a quick search. Do you have any links to where I can read more about this?
Just fire up Wireshark and inspect what Firefox calls, a lot of calling home and even if you change all the settings and config parameters to something sane it will still contact a 3rd party analytics company. Mozilla also acquired an ad analytics company recently for some reason.
I have this in user.js:
// settings user-test-programm user_pref("app.shield.optoutstudies.enabled", false); // dont use me as guinea pig user_pref("app.normandy.enabled", false); user_pref("app.normandy.optoutstudies.enabled", false); user_pref("messaging-system.rsexperimentloader.enabled", false); // side-loading of telemetry-extension user_pref("extensions.systemAddon.update.enabled", false); // disable Mozillas new tracking aggragation thingy user_pref("dom.private-attribution.submission.enabled", false,); // almost only for tracking useful user_pref("beacon.enabled", false); // so webpage can send (tracking) data before you close tab user_pref("browser.send_pings", false); // hyperlink auditing (click-tracking)Note: the last two are more nuanced.
Argument for beacon is that webpages will use a more intrusive way with noticeable delay to upload data on tab close. I personally prefer that, as a warning, but never saw one after years.
Argument for send_pings is, that trackers will use more mean and stealthier ways to track you, if they don’t have that interface (same as in private-attribution). I do know however, that companies who track you have high greed and low morale to begin with, and use all they can get to generate more money.
Ok wtf is Moxilla doing? They know their company is built on good community perception, right?
They honestly have a monopoly in the sense that they are the only think not Chrome
The users most likely to complain are also the users least likely to stop using their products.
I mean they’ve been pedaling AI crap for a while without negative backlash.
Similarly they tried to ride the Blockchain train back in the crypto scam days and also didn’t face any backlash.
They’ve publicly vouched to become an AI company and an advertising company without backlash.
I think most Firefox users don’t care
They are a Silicon Valley-based foundation half-heartedly rehashing Silicon Valley’s worst trends.
The truth is, you have to do these sorts of things to attract and retain talent, even if they aren’t great ideas.
Honestly a lot of Firefox users are eyeing forks
I think most Firefox users don’t care
Oh we care, but there’s no alternative besides Chrome and Safari and those companies are even worse (Google definitely is, anyway, Apple is debatable)
Luckily there’s still alternatives like Librewolf that unfortunately still use Mozilla’s browser engine.
I do hope the Servo project will be ready to use in a production browser soon.
So it’s known there’s also a really indev project ladybird it’s a full browser from the ground up
We are stuck with Firefox based browsers for a few years at the minimum as it takes a really long time to develop an engine.
Also Servo is very much not the only thing around. Ladybird exists as well
Apple is definitely just as fucking terrible.
Hard agree. Apple’s ecosystem is primarily completely closed-source. If you abandon them or they abandon you you’re left with nothing. At least with open source-based projects like Chrome/Firefox you can fork the code and not have to start from zero against a goliath. Apple would never give its customers that kind of leverage.
Compared to Google? Idk. Google doesn’t sell any products to the end user so that says a lot about who the customers are.
Apple sells products. Apple users ARE the customers.
No. Apple’s just getting paid from both sides.
What they mean with AI features is also their offline website translation feature, which is something I’ve wanted for years. The alternative is online Google website translation.
I agree with you. It’s frustrating to see people lump in genuinely good AI/ML work like private on-device translations in attempts to discredit Mozilla. There are good criticisms against them. They’ve made mistakes. There’s zero need to lump in AI/ML.
I genuinely believe that the Mozilla board is secretly working for Google. They already get most of their funding from that search engine deal, is a backroom agreement to slowly run the organization into the ground in order to force the last holdouts over to Chrome that hard to believe?
It’s in Google’s interest to keep Firefox/Mozilla alive to skirt antitrust laws, so any backdoor deal would be more making Chrome alternatives not look too attractive while keeping them on life support.
I don’t think they’re working for Google but I’m convinced that they’re trying to setup their own advertising business
Trying to get some of that sweet ad revenue money
but Google controls so much of everything that of course they’re indirectly funded by Google, so it may look like they’re working for Google
In this Tecnofeudalist reality that we live in, we all indirectly work for our feudal lords Google / Meta / Amazon. We are granted their grace and allowed to exist in their server space and use their internet cables. In return we have to work the land and give our data as a tribute.
I just canceled my MDN Plus subscription. Man, Mozilla has been so disappointing recently. I have to wonder if Google infiltrated them or something.
They are just really poorly managed
Sure, but it’s worth asking why the management is so poor. Many people have theorized that it’s because Google is pulling the strings; It would be in Google’s best interest to keep Firefox around on life support, because it helps them avoid antitrust lawsuits if they can point to Firefox and go “nope not every browser is Chromium based!” But it’s also in Google’s best interest to whittle Firefox’s usage down to near zero, which is what every single recent Mozilla decision has been aiming to do.
Mozilla was getting paid a lot of money by Google before Google got their hand slapped in an antitrust lawsuit. Many people have theorized that since that lawsuit, Google has pivoted to making deals directly with Mozilla’s management instead.
Sure, but it’s worth asking why the management is so poor
Could just be incompetence.
Working in a bigger corp and seeing people continuously fail upwards or get hired into positions where they run around like headless chickens - sometimes the reason is leadership putting people in the wrong role and not holding them accountable because its easy to “fudge metrics” and believe things are going well.
The strategy I’ve seen far too often:
- Deliver a half-working project that is bursting at the seams and requires more work and resources (or introduces a technical debt that most people can’t even begin to comprehend).
- Leadership declares it a success because a long enough train wreck takes time to be noticed when you’re near the end of the tracks and the people at the front lines are doing everything they can to avoid it.
- Find a new job before the shit hits the fan (typically hold off until your RSU’s fully vest) and talk about how you implemented X while saving company Y and how successful it was.
- Leave the place worse off than before.
- The project/implementation starts showing signs of failure and leadership blames others (because the guy who implemented things is now gone and he did things so well how could it possibly be their fault?)
Too often I’ve seen meetings between management not even understanding what their “core issues” are. How do you even make a business better if you don’t even understand your pain points?
It’s both fascinating and scary.
It doesn’t really matter if they’ve been infiltrated, because they’re so dependent on Google’s cash. The money corrupts, even if there are no specific moles.
EEO court here we come
Prolonged, multi-level fuckery with dozens of witnesses - and that’s just with what they did to this one guy.
Yet another thing to add to my growing pile of reasons that Mozilla is enshittifying. I wonder what tomorrow’s reasons will be?
Slight sidetrack, I thought Mastodon was federated with Lemmy? Or is it just Boost that can’t handle Mastodon links?
You can read Lemmy threads in Mastodon clients (although it is messy and gross), but not vice versa. I couldn’t tell you the reason why.
It’s because the devs just don’t want to. Not really sure why, would be good to have that kind of interoperability.
Teixeira worked for nearly 14 years at Microsoft in areas including developer tools and technologies, before serving as Facebook’s director of program management and design, and Twitter’s vice president of product.
According to the suit, Teixeira joined Mozilla in August 2022 with the understanding that he would ultimately be positioned to succeed Baker as Mozilla CEO.
[…]
Teixeira, 52, was diagnosed in October 2023 with ocular melanoma, a rare but treatable form of cancer. He took an approved 90-day medical leave through early February under the Family Medical Leave Act, the suit says.
Shortly before Teixeira returned, in early February, Baker stepped down as CEO, returning to the role of executive chairman. Chambers, a Mozilla board member, was named to serve as CEO for the remainder of the year.
So he’s basically fine, he just missed his chance to become CEO.
You missed this paragraph, which is curious.
After he returned, the suit says, Teixeira was asked to carry out and falsely take responsibility for a decision to make job cuts that were planned in his absence. He questioned the need for the layoffs and raised concerns about the potential to disproportionately impact women and people of color, the suit says.
Mozilla was trying to use him as a scapegoat, putting profits ahead of people.
I have met Steve at Ms several times, and he always seemed like a nice and genuinely motivated person. He seemed to like product challenges and even took on hard tasks like leading the core team of Windows 8.1 App enablement ( think of getting Facebook to create a Windows native app). I’d believe him that Mozilla treated him wrongly or asked unfair things of him, otherwise he wouldn’t need to take these steps.
In the post OP linked from Teixeira, he claims they terminated his employment.
