I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil. How can they win back the country? Is it too late?
As an American, I expected most Americans to be at least semi-rational and to recognize what a threat to democracy and our way of life that Trump is. I expected most Republicans to just vote for him out of reflex, but otherwise the rest of America would rise up in our hour of need to vote against this and save us all from this idiocy.
Nope. There was just more people lined up to vote for more idiocy. We failed the world. I’d say I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’ll help. This is America.
Agree, and sadly he won the popular vote too (so far). It’s really bleak how many people don’t vote at all.
They all voted with their wallets. It’s really simple. That’s how these people are able to come into power.
Except Trump isn’t here to help their wallets.
If they could read they would be very upset you said that
but…but…but…he said he would fix it! Sure he didn’t say how but he would, right? Right?!?
Trusting a con man…
The frustrating thing is that Trump didn’t even get more votes this election than he did last election. There wasn’t a bunch of new Trump voters that came out of the woodwork and turned the tide. He was absolutely beatable. He only won because 15 million of the people who voted for Biden last election just didn’t bother this time.
A lot of progressive people also moved out of red states after all of the different nonsense happening in them. We won’t know until the 2030 census if they actually do that accurately unlike the 2020 census.
Democratic voters just aren’t dependable, or the causes that Democrats tend to champion don’t provide them any benefits. Yes, it’s often the right thing to do to champion their rights or causes, but when the time comes and their help is needed, they’re seemingly nowhere to be found because things apparently weren’t interesting enough.
It is too late for a while now. Try to be safe, even if that means moving.
And move where?!
Pretty dystopic that you post this quote, because it is doctored to include catholics. Niemöller’s wife explicitly stated that he never included them in his poem. Source: https://martin-niemoeller-stiftung.de/martin-niemoeller/was-sagte-niemoeller-wirklich
Martin Niemöllers zweite Frau (seit 1971), Sibylle von Sell schreibt dazu am 23.4.2000 in h-holocaust https://www.h-net.org/~holoweb/ :.“ The trouble with Martin Niemoeller’s „famous quotation“ is that he never wrote it down – which enabled so many hitchhikers over the years to „put themselves on the waggon“. In his „Confession of Guilt“ (as he called it himself: Schuldbekenntnis in German) the Communists came first, then the Trade Unionists and then the Socialists and then the Jews. NO ONE ELSE.”
Just be grateful if you’re not in one of the first groups. I spoke up as loudly as I could.
If I had that answer I would be happy to share.
The problem is that nowhere is safe now. I’m Canadian, and I wish I had somewhere to go. And just imagine how the poor sods in Palestine, Ukraine, and so many other suffering countries, are feeling right now.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Vladimir Putin’s armies weren’t occupying large swaths of Eastern Europe by the end of this term.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Vladimir Putin’s armies weren’t occupying large swaths of Eastern Europe by the end of this term.
And Russia will use, what? Tanks from the Cold War?! There have been many reports from professional defense intel groups and countries that report that Russia has been struggling to keep fighting the invasion of Ukraine. They’ve had to resort to asking North Korea to send thousands of troops to fight in Ukraine. With the weapons that the EU, Australia, Britain, and the US have been sending them, Russia is going to have a tremendously difficult time fighting back. Let alone, invading another country.
There’s a theory going around that China might take action and ‘take back’ what they claim to have been their territory from the early 1800s. Either they capture Serbia as a whole, southern Serbia, or a large portion of Eastern Russia. Which might look like the northern point of Lake Baikal to Uda Gulf or the push further and take Taul Bay. The southern part of the Kamchatka peninsula would be advantageous to them. The US and others would have a harder time “controlling” China’s fleet of ships if they had ports and bases up there as well.
I can only hold onto fool’s faith for so long, that the world doesn’t experience another major war.
How about Russia using US military aid?
Trump has stated he would talk with Russia about solving the Ukraine problem…
I think this is going to be the end of the USA as we know it. After this period, democracy will be significantly impacted.
The western world as a whole should be terrified. There has been a sharp dip towards conservatism that will only accelerate with Trump back at the helm in the US. Brexit didn’t occur in a vacuum.
By finally doing what it clearly needs to do, splitting in multiple countries so red States can finally become third world countries like they so want to be.
It’s funny that the last time this was floated by Republicans, they thought they were kicking the Democrat states out.
In other words, they thought they were keeping the Federal government.
Republican states need Democrat states far more than vice versa.
If Trump truly does win, Republicans won’t split the country. They’ll make it even more impossible to leave.
I mean, no matter who gets kicked out by who, there would be at least two federal governments… I think most people don’t realize that when a country splits, the (at least two) new entities both become independent countries with their own government…
So where do you think the lines would get drawn? West Coast and New England + New York are the obvious ones to do their own thing. Pennsylvania cuts off the DMV area from New York/New England, unless we go on a county level and excise just the area around Philly to keep the whole northeast Atlantic together.
Is Chicago just left as an island in the Midwest? The red staters certainly won’t want it, and without it Illinois basically is a red state. RIP to the other midwest and southern cities too.
Colorado and New Mexico together would be quite fucked being landlocked in a sea of red otherwise.
Congratulations to Hawaii on its regained independence I guess. Alaska would probably be offered up to Putin as a thank you gift from Trump.
Do you think all the red states stay together as a single entity? Texas is an obvious candidate to decide to fuck off on its own, possibly Florida as well. But would South Carolina really care all that much to stay tied to Montana, for example, or vice versa?
What do you mean? Trump won decisively. Electoral, popular, in the senate, etc…
You’re really asking, “how does a minority continue to exist in the face of a fascist majority?”
The answer is, generally, they don’t.
I think that is an oversimplification. He won the popular vote, but that’s the majority of voters, not the majority of people, right? So we cannot accurately say that the majority is fascist. We can only say that the voting majority is fascist.
And then we need to look at who was conned, and how. Of course people who got conned need to work harder to avoid that in the future. We all agree on that. At the same time, the con artists and the people who enable the con, we also need to identify them and figure out what’s making them successful. If we talk about major newspapers and TV networks failing to cover how bad Trump actually was, or putting Harris on unrealistic pedestal, newspaper owners refusing to allow newspaper editors to endorse a candidate, the way Fox News preys on people who grew up trusting TV news and now have only watched Fox for the last two decades, open lies about who’s eating cats and dogs, a DNC that pushes centrist candidates even after 2016 when the weakness was exposed, and it’s clear that many left-wing voters are wildly unhappy, those are all things that smaller groups have done to help create the situation that we saw yesterday. And that’s just a short list.
So what I hope we can do, is I hope we can avoid saying something trite like, this is what the American people wanted, full stop. If you want to make that a conversation starter, go for it. But it shouldn’t be a dismissive conversation ender, because it ignores what actually happened and What will continue to happen in the future.
He won the popular vote, but that’s the majority of voters, not the majority of people, right?
Right, the rest are just so lazy and consumed by apathy that they could not be bothered to vote when THESE were the stakes. I think we can confidently rule them out for any advocacy for our freedom.
But statistically, those who didn’t vote likely have a similar ideology distribution.
You forget that he won decisively… with less votes than he got last time
Facism is capitalism in decay. America just proved that the decay is rapid.
Liberal institutions just paved the way for facism to take root.
I’d like to learn more about
Facism is capitalism in decay.
Is that just a think people say or are their studies or books about this?
Facism is a reaction to the institutional failures of capitalism brought about by many scholars. Mainly brought about by the working class left behind looking for a change to the system.
Places in history where it happened
italy (1920’s) voters wanted a stronger economy with trains to run on time germany (1920’s) voters wanted a stronger economy without a destabilization of currency
Is that just a think people say or are there studies or books about this?
But why male models?
Here is an explanation.
This isn’t sides anymore.
Until America wants to be tolerant of more than intolerance, it seems it will vote with its penises, wallets, and weapons.
Edit: unnecessary apostrophe
No, no, it’s fine. Americans don’t know how to use apostrophes properly.
The average death age of any empire is 250 years.
Tick tock America. You’re proving that figure to be correct.
*proved
I’m not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
With a functional justice department we’d have a chance. There’s nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines. There’s nothing to stop them from not certifying an election. We’re about to have the scotus filled with young like-minded Republicans. We’re about to have every federal judge biased for them.
Even having both sides of Congress the best thing we could do would be to status quo because every time a veto is overturned the scotus could just stamp it down as unconstitutional.
The president has God King status, he can have opponents jail for executed.
The thing is even if none of these things were in play, The popular vote just voted for a dictatorship. He was utterly and absolutely clear and anyone that says he was joking around doesn’t actually believe that they’re just too embarrass socially to announce that they themselves are racist/fascist/misogynist. There is nothing here to win back. We’re better than 50% rotten to the core and those people aren’t going away.
Even this election wasn’t right versus left it’s right versus more right. If you put a true left candidate in they’re just going to get murdered. (That may or may not be literal)
There’s nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines.
Given that the Democrats have known the districts have been gerrymandered to hell and back for decades now, why haven’t they spent any time at all doing their own redistricting, rather than strongly pushing agendas that affect 0.5% of the country?
Oh dems have. But you have to have control of the state to do that. Hogan (R governor) tried his damnest to unwrap central Maryland from Western Maryland.
The first bill filed in the House of Representatives and Senate after the 2020 election which resulted in the Democratic Party gaining nominal control of Congress and the White House was a bill to ban partisan gerrymandering, require independent redistricting committees, forbid states from imposing onerous voter registration or identification regulations, limit the influence of rich donors and wealthy PACs in federal elections, and generally just make the process of voting better for Americans.
This bill was called the Freedom to Vote Bill and was numbered H.R. 1 and S. 1 for the House and Senate versions, respectively. It passed the House of Representatives in 3 March 2021 and received unanimous support among the 50 Democratic senators when the Senate held its vote on 22 June 2021. The bill was blocked from advancing due to a Republican filibuster.
On 3 January 2022, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York announced plans to abolish the filibuster for legislation in order to allow this bill to advance. President Joe Biden had previously indicated he would sign the bill. Schumer made his move on 19 January 2022, moving to change the filibuster rule to require continuous talking, i.e. in order to filibuster a bill, someone must make a speech and keep talking for the duration of the filibuster, with the filibuster ending when they finish talking. Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin, members of the Democratic Party representing Arizona and West Virginia, respectively, got squeamish and voted against the change. All Republican senators voted against the change. This doomed the bill’s passage through Congress as the filibuster could be maintained indefinitely by the Republicans.
The bill died when Congress was dissolved pending the November 2022 general election, in which Republicans won a narrow majority in the House of Representatives.
Manchin and Sinema’s terms with both expire when the new Congress is convened on 3 January 2025 following the November 2024 general election. Manchin did not seek re-election in yesterday’s election and will retire at the expiration of his term. Sinema was forced out of the Democratic Party and originally planned to stand as an independent before deciding against it. She will retire at the end of her term.
Due to the innate malapportionment of the Senate, it is exceedingly unlikely that the Democratic Party will ever regain majority control of the Senate.
So I point my finger at these two idiots for sinking American democracy as we know it.
Even that doesn’t address the mess that exists today. It’s a great example of why they keep losing. They’re going to make it impossible to gerrymander after the lines have already been redrawn to benefit the Republicans? Why? Why would they do that? They’re essentially committing to always fighting an uphill battle for the rest of their days. I respect the principle, but not the approach. You cant lock a scale while it’s broken and then expect it to measure correctly. They need to pull their heads out of their asses and start playing to win. To start recognizing the strategies which continually defeat them, and start countering with some equally aggressive strategies of their own, or their time is done.
I think I phrased my comment wrong on this. It doesn’t ban the act of gerrymandering, it bans the results of gerrymandering. Gerrymandered maps would need to be redrawn had the bill been enacted.
This bill was no slouch. It directly abridged several states’ voter suppression laws. Had the bill passed, the next phase would have been people being able to use the federal courts to strike back against these incompatible laws.
That being said, if you were the leader of the Democratic Party, what would you have done? Not intended as rhetorical snark, I’m just curious as to what other ideas there are.
Okay, then that sounds reasonable. Regarding your question, I suppose I would have held a primary and put someone on the final ballot who the people voted for. That would have required acknowledging before the primaries that Biden wasn’t fit to continue, which from what I’ve read, they did have full knowledge of, but refused to act upon.
That’s easier said than done though. Right? Like I’m not directly exposed to the corruption inherent in the system and the demands placed upon them in order to secure enough campaign funds to have a chance at all. Although I don’t think sticking to the actual system as it was designed would cause the loss of donors.
Oh, and I’d get rid of the super delegates. In short, I’d stop trying to control who gets on the final ballot to push my party agenda, and instead let the people actually elect the leader they want. Again though, that’s probably a lot easier said than done, and I’m an outsider not privy to the dealings that take place behind closed doors.
I have to agree with you there. I think the Democratic Party was scared of inviting infighting with a primary contest which Harris would probably win anyway, but you’re right—Harris had no mandate from the party membership and even a lightning-round primary conducted online would have been better.
I’m not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
I don’t understand this sentiment as I’m hearing it a lot.
We’ve elected a fascist into the highest office. We’re cooked. There’s a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing. Organizing your community, your family, your town/village/city. Organizing mutual aid, direct action, and resistance. How much more do we need until people actually get off their asses and start doing something about it? Like the time for peaceful and democratic means of avoiding fascism was before the election. But a fascist is now in power, so are we going to wait until the troops are rolling down the street to do anything? I’m not saying go out and just commit wanton acts of violence in the name of revolution, but the longer we wait the more difficult it will become to get organized, involved, and yes armed.
I don’t understand this sentiment
There’s a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing
Organizing? Resistance? Armed? That’s honestly insane.
You’re going to organize against half the US? Gonna start a civil war with every last (fully armed) enemy in your own backyard?
They could blockade cities from food and shut down any movement in 3 days.
The Civil War worked efficiently because there was a battlefront. This is more of a Republican Soup.
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Hope there will be a legitimate election in 2028, and show up to the fucking primary before it and in 2026.
I think Trump won because of the economy. Yes, he has a rabid base that really does want his fascism, but the voters who pushed him over the edge are ones suffering because inflation and the wealth gap that has just been allowed to increase unimpeded. Those voters don’t want fascism - they’re just dumb AF and don’t pay attention. They just voted for “change.”
These problems will only increase over the next 4 years, so there will be another opportunity defy the status quo in 2028. We had a chance and failed to do in 2016. We came closer in 2020. We didn’t have a real primary in 2024. When we get to 2028, it’s time to fucking do it.
Ah yes, because nothing says “change” like “unchecked conservatism”
Well I did say they are dumb AF.
Here’s the thing… He said he would bring change. Biden, and Harris after, both said that things would basically stay the same. For a lot of people, that’s an active issue they’re dealing with everyday.
The politicians just don’t understand because they haven’t lived like normal people for decades, if ever given the history and family of many of them.
Wait 2 years, and hopefully put people who will mitigate the damage into the positions listed on your ballot. All you can do now as a law abiding citizen is wait.
I fear that the next election will be more ceremony than democracy once they have finished rigging it. At this point, I expect a third term for Trump - if he lives that long.
He won’t. The goal was to get Vance in all along. He’s a docile pet for Thiel and co to implement their fascist agenda.
Your fear of a 3rd term makes it all the more important to vote in your future elections. As the two term limit is imposed through a constitutional amendment, they’d need to create another constitutional amendment to reverse it. They need 2/3rds of both the house and the senate to agree to even get the ball rolling, as such, it is vital that you do what you can to prevent them from acquiring those numbers to avoid that situation.
If it did happen, I wonder if the democrats would run Obama again.
If they attempt to abolish term limits I think we’re actually going to see a civil war.
I would hope so, but americans have proven time and time again that they are spineless.
That’s the plot of the Civil War movie from this year. Nick Offerman and his nameless party started a 3rd presidential term.
I don’t think they need a constitutional amendment, just Scotus ruling that it only applies to consecutive terms, for example.
And then 8 years of the President and VP switching places.
It worked for his pal, Putin…
I know the supreme Court is heavily biased at the moment, but what possible logic could they use to get out of the 22nd amendment saying “no person shall be elected to the office of the president more than twice”? They can’t just add words there, and it isn’t ambiguous at all
I think you underestimate them. And if they do, who will you complain to anyway?
If Republicans remove term limits, it would be amazing to see Obama instantly get reelected for a third term in 2028.
That being said, the USA may not get another legitimate election (help us).
If it did happen, I wonder if the democrats would run Obama again.
Fat fuck will die inside of 4 years. So, it’ll get worse.
I admire your positivity
Go to your Democratic party and demand change.
Find a candidate that will stand on the basis of free healthcare, equal rights, the right to union, enforcing a higher minimum wage, enforcing paid sick leave and a minimum of 20 days holiday a year, and committing to lowering the cost of living.
Once someone stands up for this, push them to the moon for the next four years. Tell anyone else NOT on this platform to fuck off.
Essentially, America needs a Project 2029.
I like the sentiment, but that is predicated on there being another election under the same rule set which would allow either party to win. If things come to pass with the unitary executive theory outlined in Project 2025 and the dictatorship desires that have already been declared, makes it unlikely votes will work to change political parties going forward…
And the “deep state”, meaning actual subject matter experts doing their jobs throughout government for years, regardless of current administration, are all going to be replaced by kid rock and vaping young republicans fresh from dropping out of their second semester in at The University of Southern Alabama State.
That’s who’s going to be the dude inspecting your meat for e.coli and signing off on the clinical trials for you’ve perception meds - Gunner, Hunter and Ryder.
Really don’t think anyone is considering the reality of how deeply fucked we’re going to be looking at the front door for obvious signs of trouble, while they leaf the crawlspace with fertilizer and gasoline and kick in the backdoor with flamethrowers in hand.
Some of this outcome will depend on how effectively they execute. But let’s say they do. Then. in the paraphrased words of JFK:
“He who makes reform impossible. makes revolution inevitable.”
Now that isn’t a pretty future, or a nice future. But that’s what happens when a people resigns itself to performing democracy instead of protecting it.
You get it
I’ll also add that you need to primary basically anyone that has been in politics for more than 15 years. There is just too much, “common sense,” in this party that is just wrong. In 2016, it was smart to run a centrist campaign that tried to move moderates away from Trump, and it failed. In 2024, they ran the same fucking campaign, and it failed.
There are well intentioned people that somehow still think that the 1992, third-way strategy will deliver gains through incrementalism, and it’s just not going to happen. Primary them, so that they at least have to contend with the new political realities. Trump picked up working class voters across across all demographics, not just the white working class. Everyone wants change; offer real change.
See, there’s the horrifying possibility that they just did and this is what Americans are.
Eh, forget it. they probably need a minute before reckoning with that one.
That’s the thing … looks like he’ll win the populist vote… You’re not “taking your country back” this is your country…
Not being American, I will need some convincing about why the US doesn’t belong in the same bucket as, say, Hungary or Turkey. If you keep self inflicting the rule of strongmen and their oligarch cronies at some point that’s a core feature.
Biden could do some official acts. But he won’t.
But he won’t
Should be the DNC motto.
Gallows humor is all we’ve got left
He should at least transfer a shitton of military gear to Ukraine in the coming days. Not little stuff either.
Top-tier tanks, jets, warships, and more. Enough to absolutely crush the Russian war machine. Basically everything shy of nukes and loads of it.
It’s been “too late” for 'mericans to “win back the country” for a couple of decades at least. I mean, the entire electoral/voting system needs to be redone from the ground up because it’s very non-democratic.
If Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote I’d say it is.non-Democratic. But he won the popular vote too. So half the country are just self destructive.
California has only counted around half their votes so a popular vote win for Kamala could be a thing.
Quite the change from 2016, when he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million. Congrats, 'murica.
Yeah we are not trending in the right direction here.
People don’t vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isn’t a great standard to go by either, it’s a product of the system as well
If you had 100% turnout the popular vote would be very different.
People don’t vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isn’t a great standard to go by either, it’s a product of the system as well
My area is such a strong republican district that my vote is functionally irrelevant aside from the president. Hell, they didn’t even bother with democrat candidates on a local level.
If that were me I would run as an independent, people love that on a local level. “I’m putting town/county first!” And say I’m going to fix the roads people LOVE talking about how bad the roads are when it comes to local politics.
There’s a lot of fuckery that happened since before and after the election. They fucked with the census to give red states more ec votes. They changed voting rules and redistricted in many states. They got ballots thrown out in certain areas. Yesterday the voting computer system in my (blue) county didn’t work for the first two hours fortunately I voted early. There’s also a lot more nuanced targeted misinformation out there now. People have these ideas in their heads and I have no clue where they came from. I block ads all the time but I imagine places like TikTok can easily manipulate people without anybody around them knowing about it.
There were no good options. And that’s because of the electoral system.
There was a so-so option and a terrible option IMO.
In other words, no good options. Few people were truly excited to vote for Kamala. That’s the issue.
