Apparent? Shut the fuck up.
Throwing in the word “apparent” is cowardly, but it’s also a lot cheaper than being sued for libel by a fucking billionaire.
Nah. Getting sued for libel is what these outlets should be absolutely proud to have sent their way. That’s literally a news story in itself. It would also means he’d actually have to defend it instead of posting Nazi puns on Twitter.
So at what point of doing something does it actually become the thing that it was?
Seems pretty obvious to me.
From a legal point of view it hasn’t been tried in a court of law, which is why words like “apparently” and “allegedly” are used.
By that logic, it would impossible to report on literally anything.
Yes. It’s impossible to report objectively on capitalists with enough control to sue. This has been shown again and again.
That is literally what happens in US news when the subject involves a criminal offence or could be considered defamation.
So if Elon literally lay down on the ground we couldn’t say he lay on the ground? You’re saying we would have to say allegedly? What he did is not in question, their argument was intent. It should be obvious that he lay on the ground but reported as possibly unintentionally lay on the ground. The action is clear as day and should not be up for dispute
Yeah. They’re cowards because they don’t want to lose any money saying the truth.
In this case I think the point is to be on the nose about how fucking ridiculous it is - just from this article:
Steve Bannon made a gesture that is identical to a Nazi salute
Bannon made the gesture — extending his arm, palm down, fingers straight, at an upward angle away from his chest, which is also what Nazi salutes look like
the gesture was also identical to one made by billionaire Elon Musk
extended his arm straight out, palm down, fingers straight, at an upward angle away from his chest. Which, whatever the billionaire’s intention, just happens to be precisely how a Nazi salute is performed.
Musk repeated the gesture. Here’s how that looked. <pic of Musk doing a Nazi salute>
I also wouldn’t be surprised if the DoJ would be specifically ordered to look at this case. When you’re challenging power, it makes sense to cross your Ts and dot your Is.
Oxford’s top definition for Apparent is “clearly visible or understood; obvious”
And the second (which is how they are using it) is “seeming real or true, but not necessarily so”.
Having read the article, that doesn’t seem to be the case. The undertones of the writing seem to be “There have been some attempts to deny that these are Nazi salutes (and not from the people making the gestures), but plausible deniability is rapidly running out and it definitely looks exactly like a Nazi salute”.
Dodging shackles of the new Ministry of Truth
The space karen one was blatantly apparent, this was a pretty half assed attempt. Like he is too much of a bitch to put his contemptible fascist ideology on full display.
Getting upset when journalists explicitly flag their interpretations is pretty fucked up and fragile.
“Interpreting” a sieg heil is pretty fucked up and complicit.
They came to the same fucking interpretation as you did, but that’s still not good enough. “Apparently” they don’t just have to oppose nazis, they have to participate in your daily Two Minutes Of Hate. Clearly differentiating between objective observation and the inferences drawn from those objective observations IS A GOOD THING. So fucking fragile.
I’d like to go back to a simpler time. A time when nazis got shot in the fucking face.
You can help return to that time today!
Join your local SRA or PSL. We need more comrades. Us Socialist have the top score for killing Nazis and it’s not even fucking close.
Edit: Socialist Rifle Association. Party for Socialism and Liberation.
Judge for yourselves … pretty blatant Nazi salute if I’ve ever seen one. Short and quick but it was a plainly obvious gesture.
1930s German Nazis would have laughed at it for being so pitiful and weak but it was there from what I saw.
https://www.youtube.com/live/0BN-62AQT4Q?t=29801s
If the linked time doesn’t work … scroll through to the end of his 15 minute speech at 8:16:32
I can’t even think of a way that this could be given some veil of innocence either. The “my heart goes out to you” thing was always bullshit, but it was an attempt at plausible deniability. I don’t think even that could be done here
It’s just an involuntary hand movement, like when someone reaches for glasses they are already wearing, or reach out for a phone that’s not in the pocket. He got the habit from all the times he does the Nazi salute behind closed doors. /s (but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually true)
the nod, like yeah I did that, right after.
Like a weak handshake. The softest Nazi ever.
Short and quick, followed by a smile and a nod to what I assume was approval from the audience.
In times past, anyone doing anything like that around the president would have put the president on the fast track to impeachment.
Today, this will just slide, and we’ll have another piece of outrageous news tomorrow that nobody will be outraged about for more than 10 minutes. Different values today I guess…
Impeachment in the US seems to be meaningless too, though
It’s because impeachment is a partisan process. If the Republicans had an ounce of integrity (or even self-preservation) they would have joined the Democrats in voting to convict when Trump was impeached multiple times previously.
The second time was their easiest out. He wasn’t President, he had just lost an election, most of the country was disgusted with his antics post-election or at least just tired with it all.
They could’ve kneecapped him right then and barred him from running again. He would have left Washington a pariah. Most Republians hated the man, and this was their chance to shoot the rabid dog, but they were afraid of getting primaried over it. Which itself is ridiculous because most of the GOP senators were 3-5 years from their next primary.
That was when the GOP was fully-captured.
The goal of fox news post nixon was to prevent anything similar to what happened to nixon as a result of watergate. That and the fact that wall street robber barons were mot punished for the business plot fascist coup attempt against fdr and then the son and grandson of that coup attempt’s primary architect were both sitting presidents and now America has been obviously fascist to anyone paying attention the last 40-50 years now they are so emboldened they don’t even try and hide it.
Dude. Punctuation.
It really is. It does fucking nothing.
It’s not so much values as it is a lack of power in the working class. These things can be done because the greater population has no power or influence. Since their is no organization to resist it the mass of the population falls into two areas of “cope”. The crowd that knows it’s fucked up and has no one to organize against it. And the crowd that knows it’s fucked up but “no one is doing anything” so they find a place to normalize or deny it. It’s not “really” a Nazi salute.
You may call this “values”. But I’d say it’s more about how well the ruling class has controlled and passified the population.
Also, when half the country is worried about putting food on the table or paying rent. They really don’t have time to give a fuck. Material conditions really shape what we might perceive as a “lack of values”.
So at this point, the leaders of both major political wings of MAGA have openly done the fascist salute.
Maga America needs to be denazified.
MAGA Americans need to cease to exist.
You and what army?
Don’t need an army to punch a pussy-ass fascist. Fuck off Nazi.
Gonna need to do a lot more than just punching pussy-ass fascists. Why don’t you go ahead and peacefully occupy a sidewalk that Nazi oligarchs never walk on, or maybe do an interpretive dance while you’re at it. If you think the rise of fascism can be stopped with punching pussy-ass fascists then you’re clearly not taking the situation seriously enough. Where’s your gun?
Hopefully the same army that took care of fascists the last time they crawled out from under their rocks.
There’s no Red Army to save us this time.
True, but there is the army that handed all the logistical trucks to the Red Army. The backbone of the Red Army was US material support. They provided the manpower, USA provided the tools. Plus, USA and UK provided a notable amount of manpower from another direction. And the tools for that manpower as well.
It is true that the Soviet army did a lot there. But still, the Russian claim that they did basically all of the job, especially when a huge chunk of “their” soldiers were actually from Ukraine and not from the Russia, is a lie.
It was a coöperational effort of several countries. USA could not have freed us of Nazis without UK and USSR. And USSR could not have freed us of nazis without USA and UK.
The National Guard, hopefully.
Let me guess the excuse: he also has autism and autistic people just can’t help doing Nazi salutes all the time.
You know how you keep seeing autistic people give Nazi salutes?
I’m autistic and I can’t stop nazi saluting it’s scaring my kids neighbors and friends send help
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Weird how Elon has never claimed to be officially diagnosed to be ASD, but has described himself as having Asperger’s Syndrome before, isn’t it?
Very weird indeed.
“damn vaccines… All Fauci’s fault” - RFK Jr?
who is saying that?!
It’s an excuse that people are using for elmo’s heiling…
Not another accidental Nazi salute! These clumsy Nazis keep accidentally throwing that Nazi salute around completely by mistake!
it’s the autism bro. bannon is like totally aspie
I shall now remind the world that the USA didn’t care all that much about nazis in WW2 until it got attacked by Japan in Pearl Harbor and felt the need to react.
Bullshit. We supported Europe similarly to how we’ve been supporting Ukraine.
We didn’t have boots on the ground, but we did everything short of that. It’s why Pearl Harbor happened.
We turned away Jewish refugees, and we also had our own Nazi political party. Support for the Nazis during WW2 was at a high point among the population before the US entered the war. We did not as a nation support Europe, and in fact there were large protests across the US against FDR supporting the allies by bypassing Congress. Speaking of Congress, they specifically created and expanded the Neutrality Act to prevent FDR from providing aid to the allies.
So no, there was much less help from Congress for supporting the allies than there is for supporting Ukraine, and it wasn’t a popular move by FDR to boot.
We did not as a nation
You sure like to cherry pick what counts for “as a nation”. The fact is we sent significant supplies and support to Europe throughout the war.
I can’t find a source for percentage support for the Nazis. While it existed, it seems to be pretty minor. Even the infamous Madison Square Garden rally has more to the story.
It bears mentioning that while there were 20,000 enthusiastic American Nazis inside the venue, there were also thousands of protesters outside. The anti-Nazi contingent included everyone from veterans to housewives to members of the Socialist Workers Party. The New York Times reported that the streets of midtown Manhattan were packed, and at one point the orchestra from a Broadway musical near Madison Square Garden performed a rendition of “The Star-Spangled Banner” for the protesters. A mysterious crusader even set up a loudspeaker in a rooming house near the scene and blasted a denunciation of the Nazis out the window: “Be American, Stay at Home.” The New York Police Department had deployed a record number of 1,700 officers around Madison Square Garden, enough “to stop a revolution,” the police commissioner said.
Let me make sure I got your argument correct before we continue. You’re arguing that the country that didn’t even desegregate their schools a hundred years ago had “pretty minor” support for white supremacists even before they were literally forced by the military under a progressive president to allow black people to attend their schools, because only 20,000 people attended one nazi rally in the time before the internet or interstate system, when word spread by mouth or by local newspaper.
That’s some straight up white historical revisionism.
If you were actually interested in the truth, which I very highly doubt you are, because Americans tend to suppress any criticism of their historical racism, I would suggest you read Hitler’s American Friends: The Third Reich’s Supporters in the United States by Bradley Hart. The American history with and love of nazism is glossed over or often ignored, because the whole idea of the grand stand against fascism is the greatest story we tell ourselves. It’s mostly propaganda, and people like you go along with it because it makes you uncomfortable to address the fact that the US would have willingly joined the nazis if it weren’t for the president standing in the way of things.
People like Bradley Hart write books like that as a cautionary tale. People like you just abuse any chance you get to shit on America.
There’s better unethical stuff in South America. You should spend your efforts there.
“Better unethical stuff” than nazism? I see, so you’re that sort of person.
And you’re the sort of person to call me a Nazi at the slightest provocation.
we sent significant supplies
By “sent” you mean lent or sold. The US made a profit off the Lend Lease war programme. The UK was still paying them back decades later.
You’re right about the US doing the same to Ukraine. That’s been touted as a Lend Lease situation as well.
America supported the axis and allies in ww2
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Even after setting embargo’s the us didn’t enforce private company’s from exporting/importing. And before the embargo’s the us were sending arms. The one of the countries America didn’t work with was Russia and is partly why the us worked with the Nazis. They saw it as a means to an end in the goal to defeat communism.
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I agree with your first point, but it’s not the main reason why US was attacked - even if it was 100% isolationist, it would have been attacked anyway, because Japan can’t really fulfill its imperial ambitions, if they have the US pacific fleet in its backside.
Japanese also thought the Americans would give them better terms of surrender than the British or thr Soviets.
I’m not saying America was pro-nazi (though some were). I’m saying the US could’ve fought Japan and just continued to fund the Soviets. The red army was more than up to the task of sweeping through every country held by the Nazis after they broke them in the East.
They didn’t though, they prioritized victory in Europe ahead of victory in the Pacific. That is because they were racing against the communists to liberate as much as Europe as they could. They were already planning for the next war.
Remember how the justification for nuking civilians in Japan was so American soldiers didn’t have to give their lives taking the island? So why sacrifice American lives in Europe if you know the USSR is months away from totally steamrolling Nazi Germany? There has to be a geopolitical reason.
The Nazis may not get broken in the East without the Americans and the Allies in the West.
We have plenty of things to be Anti-American about right now without trying to cherry pick, and oddly frame WWII.
The Battle of Stalingrad ended on February 2, 1943, with the surrender of German forces after months of intense fighting, marking a major turning point in World War II.
D-Day occurred on June 6, 1944, marking the Allied invasion of Nazi-occupied France.
Your response to me only makes sense if you think I am saying that the Soviets could have beaten the Nazis on their own with no lend lease program or the British holding out against the Nazis.
Am I saying that? Can you quote one of the sections of my comments that is giving you that impression?
If you would stop getting defensive for no reason and actually read my comments, maybe you’ll actually be able to understand what I am saying?
Let me lay it out, as clear as fucking possible for you:
-
Americans provided material support to allies fighting the nazis
-
The goal of this is not to stop fascist ideology, but to keep the status quo maintained in Europe and Asia
-
The Soviets win Stalingrad and begin pushing west. Nazi defeat is all but inevitable.
-
American inaction here would result in a red german and red france. Possibly even red Italy and the overthrowing of Franco’s fascist regime in Spain.
-
Americans prioritize victory in Europe over the Pacific, even though the Japanese navy is the bigger threat to them.
Ergo:
- It’s not the defeat of fascism that the Americans were interested in, it was maintaining a status quo and preventing communism from spreading through Europe
THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATRS OF AMERICA
-
There are several accounts pushing these strange lies about WW2. They don’t seem to be bots or Russian accounts but this bullshit has to be coming from people intentionally spreading propaganda and disinformation.
Sometimes it’s okay to discuss things and consider them from a different angle than the one you’re used to. It can help give you a new perspective on things. Broadening your understanding of things.
Does it mean that anonymous social media can’t exist without state actors using it to push propaganda?
I also don’t want everything I’ve posted to social media to be attached to my resume when I’m applying for jobs.
I’ve thought about some kind of system where a trusted actor would have access linking individuals actual names to pseudo-anonymous online identities. But one, that’s a stretch. Two, Elon would have downloaded that database first. And three, it doesn’t even fully solve the problem. Maybe you can make it a crime to allow foreign individuals to use your verified social media account.
But all that’s just spitballing on the bleeding edge of social media. And our government isn’t exactly known for being on the bleeding edge of tech.
I do think something like this could be good for the German government in particular.
A lot of the US supported nazi Germany directly as well. They were supporting both the allies and the nazis for a while.
Pearl Harbor happened because Japan was not happy about American imperialism in east Asia. Japan wanted to have its own imperialism in that region all to itself. It didn’t have much to do with America supporting European Nazi resistance.
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Bro you defending Imperial Japan?
By far the lesser evil.
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Hell, we only got involved with the Nazis because Hitler declared war on the US after the US declared war on Japan for pearl harbor.
I would go as far to say the reason they did d-day wasn’t to defeat the nazis, but to liberate as much of western europe as they could before the soviets set up social republics in france and the netherlands.
Then you go so far that you’re off the map.
If no D-Day then the Soviets just liberate Europe all on their own. Why risk so many American lives unless you’re preparing for the next war?
… Oh, well. If the Soviets had it all handled then why indeed lol. You’re an uneducated nut spouting conspiracies as stupid as those put out by Putinists.
You’re welcome to insult me all you like, but then have the balls to answer the question i proposed to you.
“Apparent”
Chickenshit Nazi enablers.
Atleast it’s actually being called that now
The real headline should be “CPAC audience cheers Bannon’s Nazi salute”, because they totally did, and it leaves no doubt that CPAC is full of Nazis.
He knows his audience, that’s for certain.
There were cheers, but I think I also detected some shouts of anger. I’m not going to write off an entire audience.
They were sitting down in a room in which the speaker gave a nazi salute. They did not leave when it became apparent that he would not be ejected.
I mean, they also intentionally planned ahead to be in the same room with Bannon in the first place, to give him attention and listen to whatever “good” news he had to say.
Any sounds of people getting angry at the salute should only illustrate the incredible ignorance we’re dealing with in this country. Blame it on stupidity, or hate, or indoctrination & conditioning, whatever you want. It’s all accurate to certain degrees depending on the individual.
It’s almost like the capitalist media has completely normalized and apologized for fascism.
I don’t think this one is nearly as obvious as Musk’s, and I feel like blowing something like this up makes us look bad and will only further them doing sarcastic, vague gestures “as a joke” until it gets normalized more.
Stop making excuses for fascists.
This is Steve Bannon performing a poor man’s Nazi salute so he can claim plausible deniability later.
He even responds with a smile when the crowd cheers him doing it.
Stop making excuses for fascists. Unless you are one…
it is very obvious. he isn’t waving, he isn’t pointing at anything, he isn’t emphasizing or illustrating anything because he’s not even talking when he does it. there’s a bunch of things you might be doing that can be screen grabbed to look like a salute. but the video is clear, he’s just doing a salute.
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It could be a trap, where we make a big deal about it and they claim they’re “joking” each time and then it gets normalized. But the alternative is preemptively normalizing it by buying into the plausible deniability. There’s no ‘winning’ move, I’d rather call him a fucking Nazi
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Bannon’s whole schtick is saving white culture from “Marxism”. It’s not about this being obvious in a single moment in a vacuum. It’s obvious given who he is and what he fights for. He saw Musk get away with it. He wants to reinforce it.
Arm up, folks. Nazis don’t go away peacefully.
Nah I think peacefully occupying a sidewalk that oligarchs never walk on or care about even maintaining is the best idea, we should keep doing that for 40 more years, that’ll work!
Can’t you just change your avatar to something?
And every conservative in America is silent.
Silence is complicity.
No more excuses. No more feigned ignorance.
Silent? They’re cheering.
They’re posting stills of AOC and other democrats and saying “it’s (d)ifferent.”
They’re so disingenuous it’s ridiculous.
Not @talon@lemm.ee
DotBut looking over that accounts short history, it looks like a troll.
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Most people have muscle memory of like normal wave or maybe a clenched fist pump for “fight fight fight” right? It’s not supposed to be difficult to avoid nazi saluting. Like I’ve never ALMOST sieg heil’d, you know? fuck sakes
look there was no plausible deniability when Elon did it. He pretended like he was a weirdo autist the night of with his weird head bobbing and his exaggerated gestures to try and give plausible deniability. but the Nazi salute was putting the toe in the water. feeling the room
it seems that the wannabe Nazis felt like the water was warm enough and they’re gonna start descending the staircase into the pool
The thing about musk that boggled my mind was that not only did he do it once, but he turned 180 degrees to do it again.
Yeah lol, he did the whole thing. Looks a lot like he turns around just to salute what I assumed was a flag in the backdrop somewhere, but supposedly there were more people back there. But still, who does the whole thing? Actually, first, why do it after and not as an accent during the speech act? I think his gestures and words aren’t typically disjointed so this is interesting. Who feels the need to suck in their lower lip to do a “heart goes out” gesture? This is an “I’m about to be edgy / go for it” face, not a “heart love beam” face. During his brief expression right before he starts speaking again, he comes off rather pleased with himself.
After Mush did it, I wanted to give my bro my heart, but I literally couldn’t bring myself to do it. No way this is accidents.
This was in the same speech where he said that the Holy Spirit was working through Trump to do all of this, and that Trump should have a third term and beyond.
It’s becoming obvious that we should be treating Trumpism as a religious cult, not just a political movement.
And here I thought Steve had seen the light because he spoke out against some of the stuff Trump was doing but I guess that orange dick is just too good to take out of their butts/mouths.
It’s always been a religious cult.
