gets to office and signs into zoom meeting
I was pushing to hold desk meetings back before we were in COVID.
Why am i stopping everything I’m doing to go sit in a room for 30 minutes and listen to everyone else talk about crap not related to me in which I’ve got maybe 5 minutes worth of things to say by the end.
In most cases we were already broadcasting the meeting to someone not in the room across the country.
I see all these posts/comments about meetings that are obnoxiously inefficient, and I’m so sorry for everyone who has to deal with them; it’s almost completely foreign to me
I work medical, and our meetings are usually reps teaching us about some new or revamped devices… but they gather us on-shift to listen to a 5 min schpiel and have us sign a paper. If I’m busy, too bad and you can try and catch me next time. If I get called mid-teaching… my name is signed, and nobody cares. If I somehow miss it entirely… oh well, guess it’s on me now to learn any changes. We have one formal review per year that takes all of 10 minutes. Maybe 2 or 3 formal meetings per year… and if I can’t make it, doesn’t matter
I already hate the few meetings we have, as is; and I’m only “required” to go to one per year… and it’s maybe 10 minutes. Or I can dodge it, and just say “my bad” (though not a good look for you). I simply can’t imagine being constantly pulled away for bullshit… and I guess I’m grateful for that
Granted, my job has it’s own special flavor of hell and I should’ve been an electrical engineer. But all the lack of meetings involved makes me feel a little bit better; as penance for the other rampant bullshit I have to deal with
These meetings y’all speak of — I just can’t imagine how antsy and aggravated I would be to have to attend such idiotic fluff that “could’ve been an email”. Fuck, I can even ignore my emails with almost no recourse. Kudos to y’all for getting through it, cause I’d really rather not. Let me work, leave me alone, and then I go the fuck home; that’s all I want
Why not make a step further, and ask why do you even have 30 minutes meeting if it’s not useful?
My entire career could have been an email.
That’s a more complicated problem.
Quarterly employee feedback says people feel in general that they don’t understand what’s going on in the company and what projects / deadlines are coming up and how it all relates to other departments. Everybody’s pretty much in tune with what happens in their own department.
Project management spins up and creates confluence documents that contain all of this information. Analytics spins up weekly reports that go out to everyone.
Next quarterly, top issue is once again people don’t understand what’s going on at the company. We missed that, we didn’t hear about that, we didn’t understand those grass, we didn’t know the chart was updated. Bottom line is nobody’s reading the data there’s departments are churning it out for nothing.
And that my friend is how you get a daily 30 minute all-hands sync and a weekly all hands company meeting.
Sounds like a skill issue. Someone can’t write an update that isn’t the longest paragraph of text scientifically created to be the most boring and incomprehensible sequence of words put together as a biological weapon.
And by someone I mean everyone in the corporate world.My update isn’t exciting but it is important. I need people to know this stuff or I’ll be fielding questions on it for the next 6 months as everyone individually discovers the changes.
I’m not going to spend time rewriting my update to sound thrilling and engaging in order to attract the eyes of the lowest common denominators attention span.
So we have a meeting, everyone listens, and if they say afterwards that they weren’t told or weren’t paying attention, there’s a recording of the zoom call so they can try again.
It’s work, if it were fun and enjoyable 100% of the time we wouldn’t be paid to be there.
No, you write you shit once so it’s understandable, and if you can’t you learn how to do it since it’s your job. And then if someone has questions you refer them to your writing, and eventually they learn to read what you write, since it’s their job.
Your email explaining you shit has the same power of zoom recording, more even, because it’s concise.
It’s work, you’re paid to be there, no need to make it harder for everyone just because you can.Noone reads the email.
I think it’s an occupational hazard. If you don’t have people interested in numbers you don’t have finance people and analytics people. The people who are interested in numbers are unfortunately also generally the kind of people that don’t understand that other people aren’t interested in numbers. There are correlating data with excitement because it’s what they feel.
Or analytics guy was having a rough week and said he was burning out from dealing with The analytics report. On the 6th it does this and on the 8th it did this and the 9th we had this sale. 99% of the people in the meeting only care that it’s up and to the right, flat, or down into the right
The graph technically needs two to three points on it and you need to explain why it’s aimed in whatever direction it’s aimed.
my wife kept getting pressured to go into a specific office location every week. 2-3 hour commute each way to sit at a desk on video calls with little IRL interaction
Remote work has been studied extensively for decades and the findings overwhelmingly show that remote workers, when provided the right tools and support, are significantly more productive. Demanding people commute to an office was never about productivity.
It’s not about productivity.
It’s about control.
Guess who gets to work in private offices instead of the “productivity enhancing” open offices!
When my last company went to an open office plan, everybody (even the CEO) had to be out in the open because the whole company moved into one big room (with a little cordoned-off area for meetings). Granted, this was because we were on the edge of folding and we moved into the one big room to save on rent. But it did produce a nice “we’re all in this together” vibe because it sucked ass for everyone.
This point i don’t get…in all my jobs, team leads, department managers and basically all management level employees are sitting in the same open office as everyone else. I have never been somewhere where this is not the case. Is this a predominantly American thing?
They’re talking about the c-suites who make the decision to call everyone back to office, I presume
Yup, director level and above get their own office
CSuite get their own entrance and tunnel, don’t want to enter with the rest of the plebs and walk in the same hallway
Who owns commercial and office property? Guessing most aren’t by non executive, non board member, working class
https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/commercial-real-estate-market-trends
There’s a reason they combine office with data centers and the rest of commercial has been down
They made a bad decision gambling on overvalued office and commercial property leases and want to push their loss onto workers because they love to socialize the losses and privatize the gains
100%
IMHO, it depends on the role. Do you have a role that benefits from in person collaboration, or do you have a role where focus is the priority?
People get into warring camps about remote or onsite work, and we rarely talk about engineers, designers, accountants, etc. having very different needs. One size doesn’t fit all.
The whole “return to office” thing is a cocktail of like… “Feelings Driven Leadership” and “The Cruelty is the Point”. Oh, and “I’m incompetent so everyone else must be incompetent in the same way, too.”
Many managers make decisions based purely on feelings. You can show them data but they don’t care. They feel like being in-office is better. And maybe, maybe, it is, on some metrics. Are those metrics better for workers? Probably not.
And the cruelty? Well, as others have said, some people get off on having power over others.
The last point, there are some people who just can’t manage themselves so they seem to think no one else can, either. Like someone the other day was saying he can’t work from home because he’ll just play xbox. To which I respond, from the depths of my soul, fuck off. Grow up and stop making everyone else around you suffer because you’re an incompetent, unmedicated, shit. You can go into the office if you have to. Don’t make everyone else suffer a pay cut too because you’re trash tier at self control.
You’re forgetting the whole…" I invested entirely too much in corporate real estate".
When there’s instability in the market a lot of fortune 500 corporations will start investing in corporate real estate as a “safe bet” to hedge more risky investments.
Skyscrapers and large office spaces are on paper horrible investments and have an awful time filling enough vacancies to offset their upkeep. The only thing that makes them a “safe” investment is that every company uses them as a way to bank equity. If those same companies pulled the rug from under themselves they would all lose that safe equity piggy bank.
Skyscrapers and large office spaces are on paper horrible investments and have an awful time filling enough vacancies to offset their upkeep. The only thing that makes them a “safe” investment is that every company uses them as a way to bank equity. If those same companies pulled the rug from under themselves they would all lose that safe equity piggy bank.
This is just the sunk cost fallacy though. You can inflate the paper value of assets by playing games like this, but the bill always comes due in the end. Yes, companies that do this can juice their books a bit in the short term, but they’re harming themselves in the long term. They retain a bit higher book value for their real estate, but they make whatever goods or services they provide noncompetitive in the marketplace. They have competitors who aren’t bogged down by past bad real estate decisions. Those competitors can outcompete them on price and can attract better talent. Meanwhile, they’re stuck in their ways, fruitlessly trying to inflate their real estate holdings, all while their revenue is plummeting because they can’t attract good people and have to charge higher for their services than their competitors.
It’s just the sunk cost fallacy. You could inflate the book value of real estate by doing all sorts of foolish things. You could create a subsidiary and have that company rent out some of your floor space for absurdly high rates. But you’re ultimately just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Those commercial real estate properties have already lost their value. The value was lost the minute it was proven that work from home was a superior work model.
These companies are going to go bankrupt at a mass scale when the next recession rolls around.
Fuck, these companies might actually be violating the law. Deliberately choosing unproductive business practices just to cook your real estate books is something Enron would do.
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
You’re right. It’s all right. Except the part where you think they can’t do this for long. How long did it take Madoff to get caught?
And there are enough barriers to competition to sustain this as long as they need. If anyone threatens them, they can just buy the competition.
This is just the sunk cost fallacy though. You can inflate the paper value of assets by playing games like this, but the bill always comes due in the end. Yes, companies that do this can juice their books a bit in the short term, but they’re harming themselves in the long term.
I mean… That’s kinda what late stage capitalism is all about, squeezing blood from stones on a quarterly basis.
You could create a subsidiary and have that company rent out some of your floor space for absurdly high rates. But you’re ultimately just robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Reminds me of the twin towers. One of the reasons it was such a catastrophe is because the towers were such a money sink that the city of New York subsidized the development by relocating a ton of government offices to there.
Fuck, these companies might actually be violating the law. Deliberately choosing unproductive business practices just to cook your real estate books is something Enron would do.
Pretty much the standard quo nowadays…why invest in things like labour when you can just inflate the worth of assets for free? Capitalism is about reducing cost while simulating growth, there is no reason to actually invest in the company if you can simulate investment enough to make share price go up.
Capitalism, such efficiency!
Pull all your own, sell office space. Profit?
Maybe if capitalism actually relied on competition for growth as capitalists often claim, however it’s pretty easy to recognize that corporations often work together to create their own demand.
fuck your unmedicated ass, you can go to theboffice if you want
The office or a park with cell reception, a cafe, a fucking wework, a…
Yeah, you just have to know yourself. Personally I feel like I need to go into the office once per week otherwise work starts becoming an abstract thing. But I’ve known some co-workers I wouldn’t see for months at a time that were really on the ball. Ask an obscure question about something really technical on slack and get an answer within seconds kind of thing. I knew another guy that said he had to come into the office every day because his family was too distracting.
Everyone needs to know what works for them and be a responsible professional about it.
And yeah managers that want 100% RTO are just admitting they can’t handle working from home. Ok that’s your thing, but it’s not a thing for everyone else.
Anyway I got out the the RTO thing because I told them of the times some computers were having issues and I had to work the whole weekend (from home) to fix them. If I’m going to be 100% RTO then I’m 0% WFH and the next time something like that happens I won’t be able to start working on it until 9am on Monday morning. So I’m still in the office one day per week, weather permitting, which is my preference.
They don’t care about this part at all. This is your time. It’s your fault for not being rich.
You guys don’t understand that this is is the goal. Happy rested people thinl a lot, demand things, want a better life. Unhappy and exausted people only want to go home and go to sleep, they loose their souls and think that this is better enough. Those are easy to control
It’s not a conspiracy, it’a a distributed systematic failure that can only be solved by cultural change.
I think its a conspiracy fact
Luigi is culture right?
Wahoo
Plus, look at the great job of keeping commercial real estate prices high they’re all doing
Eh? Since when Happy AND rested people think a lot and demand things? They are happy AND rested. They would not. On the other hand, tired, angry people would definitely demand a better life. The question is - is it going to be granted to them.
I don’t overthink people’s expressions on trains, nor do I think we should be taking pics of people who look upset because they look upset.
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It’s easier to just say “just because something is legal doesn’t make it okay”.
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That guy in white with air pods looks like he’s going to be at 110% at prompt engineering and LinkedIn engagement.
Surely he’d be more productive if he got the LLM to do the prompt engineering for him?
He’s writing a LinkedIn post on this exact matter as we speak, on how he LLMed away his own position for the greater good a.k.a. The company.
Yep! Who else would set their bag on the floor of a metro, lol.
Trains are a much more desirable way to get to work than driving is.
I’m counting down the months until my work relocates to our new head office. I can say goodbye to the 35-75 minute commute (each way), and have a reliable ~60min train ride.
Sure it might take longer, overall - but I’ll be able to relax by reading a book, taking a nap or playing a game. I’d much rather that than deal with the anxiety of bumper-to-bumper traffic in a sea of SUVs filled with inattentive drivers.
I literally drive past at least one accident every day on my way to work. The Monash Highway in Victoria, IYKYK.
It really is the least talked about benefit to public transport, yet is so significant. Sure you can’t do too much but you can watch a show/movie, play a game, read, write, draw or even do your taxes and shop from your phone and laptop.
Certainly can’t do that driving around. And it let’s you relax and change from work mode to home mode. Even if you have to do a little drive to and from the station.
Plus like you mentioned, less chance of delays and being involved in accidents. Win win win win.
Never thought I’d find myself in agreement with The Dark Lord, yet here I am…
I always try to argue this when people say they’d rather drive to commute.
When you drive both you and your employer lose time. When you take a train you keep your time in a way.
I enjoy the drive a lot. However, I also don’t live in a big city, so the drive is nice.
taking a nap
Well, I see you don’t live in America lol.
Environmentally, absolutely…personally? I absolutely fucking hate using public transport. I’d take 90min of sitting still in traffic alone in my car over bumping and griding with random strangers for 90min on a train any day.
If they’re really, really good.
Here in Munich, our public transport is much better than any American city, but I still hate taking the train in summer. AC either does not exist or is far too weak. Taking the car takes 40, maybe 50 minutes, the train 1h25min. I still take the train, mind you, but it’s so much more exhausting than the car…
I have to mention my daily commute is between two cities outside Munich.
Uuh, I remember the London Tube.
It’s so soul draining (noticed the empty eyes and avoidance of eye-contact) that it convinced me to start commuting to work by bicycle in London when it wasn’t all that common (and which ultimately took around the same time).
Bike commuting kind of rules though.
White shirt guy maybe, probably either at making you extremely mediocre coffee (looks too straight to be a good barista) or doing something like the ux design for the app interface to a microchip that doesnt let your dog love you without microtransactions. The owners are lobbying for it to be mandatory, and all dogs without it will be liquidated by 2030. The app is spyware written by a large language model, and only sometimes works. Iphone only.
Tan jacket lady maaaaaaaybe.
Black+white checkered shirt guy is a cop, he’s already at work. He’ll be very productive later, already planning on attending the protest.
🤣🤣🤣
Significantly more productive than anyone forced to commute by car.
Curious why you say that. I used to do the slog to lower Manhattan every day, 90 minutes by train, and another 10 or 20 minute walk, depending where I was going. I’d get back in the train later in the day knowing I should open the laptop up and work, but just couldn’t do it.
Now, in fairness, if I was driving 90-120m, I’d kill myself. But at least I’d do so listening to the Wheel of Time audiobook.
And extra fairness, my job went remote after COVID (for the majority of it). Public meetings have returned to in person sadly, but my day work is 90% remote. And on those rare occasions I get dragged out of my home wearing a suit, I do so belligerently. I’m done showing up 20-30m early, I get there when I get there. And I gotta leave early now too. I have really just started to not give a fuck, which is not great as an independent contractor.
Now, in fairness, if I was driving 90-120m, I’d kill myself. But at least I’d do so listening to the Wheel of Time audiobook.
I’ve never had trouble listening to audiobooks on the train (assuming I knew the route well enough).
And on those rare occasions I get dragged out of my home wearing a suit, I do so belligerently. I’m done showing up 20-30m early, I get there when I get there. And I gotta leave early now too.
Which is fine.
But I’ve found a lot of merit in the personal collaborations with coworkers that only really happen in an office setting. I’m in office hybrid - three days a week - and I mentor new hires, grab lunch with senior managers, get tipped off on problems from people I pass in the hallway, and occasionally just shoot the shit with people I’d never otherwise know existed if I wasn’t in the building.
I value my Work from Home, but also get a lot of mileage from a communal office.
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