I had a coworker that went MIA for like a month. We were waiting on him to send us some things for a project, but nobody knew where he went or could get in touch with him. One day out of the blue he messaged us to apologize, and let us know he’d experienced a mental breakdown, become suicidal, and had been hospitalized the whole time.
I was off that day (but of course still connected to work 🙄) and in the middle of replying to his message when a friend of mine came over to go get some lunch. She asked why I seemed kinda of shaken up, and I just gave her a quick rundown and said I needed to finish replying to him before we left.
Her response kinda threw me into this whole other state of shock, bc she literally just scoffed and said “Ugh I hate when people do that! You still have responsibilities, how hard is it to just send an email saying you’ll be out?”
This is somebody I generally consider a good person, but this really made me look at her in a different way. She legit thought that somehow this guy, who literally had a break from reality and had nearly been driven to the point of suicide bc of how stressed and overwhelmed he was, was somehow in the wrong for not putting all that aside and thinking about his responsibilities to work.
How selfish of him… /s
As if, despite the words “break from reality” and “suicide,” she still somehow believed that he could have realistically been expected to just snap back into work mode momentarily
Like as he’s in the middle of fashioning a noose or loading a gun to stick in his own mouth, he was supposed to stop and go “Wait, before I do this, I really should reply to all those emails.”
Some people have “,work responsibilities” brain and can’t turn it off. When I go home at night, work gets left behind. They can’t pay me enough to take it home with me. My boss, burns the candle at both ends to make sure everything is perfect, and we still deal with chaos, because that’s life. Leave work at work.
I did IT for a major Tool Manufacturer in the US and this scenario actually happened to me, being the person who went under a mental breakdown.
Same shit my co-workers said to another member on the team, except in her case she chose to be with her children instead of sacrifice her parental time for shareholder profits. I knew when I took my PTO+sick days that my team would said the same behind my back.
It astonishes me that the majority of Americans are OK with this type of work life.
My boss is like “You’re looking stressed. Take some holiday before you burn out.”
Yet people on the bottom of the leader love to be treated like trash.
People at the bottom are like the woman who lives with a guy who regularly treats her like shit, gets drunk and beats her up, but when he says,“Baby I love you”, forgets everything.
If you work really hard maybe next year I’ll give you a rais… a bonus!
“If you need to contact me during the operation, message my heart surgeon”
Don’t worry, our rich and powerful are trying their hardest so they can make the Europeans enjoy the American experience too
Internationalism has new champions.
It just seems like there are so many people in the US that are like “we can’t have more mandated vacation days! Chad doesn’t work as hard as I do and if he has something nice, I’ll die! Also my boss said the company is really depending on me- if I put in the extra hours he can buy another sports car this quarter!”
There’s shockingly low class solidarity among labor.
America is basically “I got mine, fuck you” and “others don’t deserve a thing because reasons” all the way down.
It’s like a snake eating it’s own tail.
The really baffling thing is that often they didn’t get theirs in the first place.
It’s closer to “I would rather neither of us get it than you get it too”.
I guess the trouble was that we didn’t have any self-admitted proletarians. Everyone was a temporarily embarrassed capitalist. Maybe the Communists so closely questioned by the investigation committees were a danger to America, but the ones I knew—at least they claimed to be Communists—couldn’t have disrupted a Sunday-school picnic. Besides they were too busy fighting among themselves.
–John Steinbeck, America and Americans
It’s really gross how many people think everything in life is a zero sum game. The anti gay marriage folks are like that: if gay people can get married then somehow their own marriage is lesser. If people who aren’t working get healthcare, then it somehow takes away from them. It’s disgusting.
somehow their own marriage is lesser
It’s a cover, they’re just trying to erect a stiff wall of turgid legislation with no gloryh- I mean, loopholes, in order to take that option away from themselves. Worried that the temptation will bulge out of them some crazy night in Vegas and they’ll wake up with a new husband like that one time in 1972 that he and his curiously close best friend never talk about (but think about often).
I’m sure there are a number of “we can’t allow gay sex because we’d all be having it if it was allowed and everyone should resist the sin like me” people, but there really are a lot of folks who feel it takes something away from them if others get what they have. It’s like the mentality of the guy who loves his BMW until his neighbor gets one too, and then he has to get a more expensive car.
Its usually that they dont like others getting what they have in an easier or different way. If they were treated like garbage to get where they are, then you should be too.
The percentage of people that would be just as happy with their neighbour having less as they would be with themselves having more is shocking and depressing. It’s all about comparisons. Crabs in a bucket.
People seem to not learn that lesson anymore. They dont realize they are focusing on themselves to the detriment of everyone around them.
Absolutely, you have to be very guarded about what you say around colleagues cause some of them will snitch behind your back to higher ups, that’s how I lost my job. I’ll never make the mistake of speaking my mind with anyone ever again. They will get a fake work persona I’ll construct from now on. Can’t believe how eager some people are to fuck themselves over just so long as they are doing better than those others they have been conditioned to hate
The perfect country to make a bunch of money if you’re young, healthy, highly skilled, and have no kids. If you check all these prerequisites then you are making money like crazy. Just no time off, no flexibility, just working for the man. Everyone else though it’s very hard.
dont forget the rich family!
Where do I move to once I’m ready to settle down, I don’t see a future in which I raise kids in this country
Anywhere in the EU where it’s safe, sane and there’s a real social safety net. Just be prepared to learn a new language and culture, be humble and grateful.
What’s wrong with Canada, eh?
We’re situated geographically between the US (which is no longer a country we can consider as allies) and Russia, and we have 20% of the world’s surface freshwater (7% of the world’s renewable water flow)
In the upcoming times of global instability and climate crisis, Canada’s definitely gonna be seeing some action.
At the very least the neighbors who are positioned to do anything about the water issue also have the next highest proportion. The US has only slightly less, with the bulk shared between the two. Russia has more freshwater.
Alberta
Honest question what do businesses do when someone does the former? Hire for the summer only and when the person comes back they lay the other person off?
Well depending on the size of the organisation and the nature of the work. You either hire a temp or balance the team/workload for the vacation time. As an example; in Sweden, it is mandated by law that workers have the right to take 4 consecutive weeks between June 1 and august 31. So as long as the team is no smaller than 3 you should only have to balance or extend time frames for work during this period. Even if the work is qualified.
There is something referred to as a industry vacation here as well. Its when a factory just shuts all production for 4 weeks and everybody goes on vacation at the same time.
Do note, that you don’t have to take 4 of your 5-6 weeks of payed vacation during this time. But you have the right to.
Every year the employer has until first of April to schedule, plan and approve all vacation for the summer.
Hope that helps. If you have more questions I’ll gladly answer them. I’m a union man and have negotiated quite a few vacation plans.
This answered everything thank you! Temps are extremely rare in the US so it makes sense that’s the solution for businesses that can’t afford to close. I think because long term it is more expensive to have temps than just maintain a consistent workforce.
Hope that helps. If you have more questions I’ll gladly answer them. I’m a union man and have negotiated quite a few vacation plans.
Any chance the Engineers of Sweden (Sverigas ingenjörer?) or other, similar union have resources for foreign engineers looking to join/work? I researched and started the work visa and job hunt processes earlier this year but didn’t make it too far without knowledge and guidance.
I’m not in or associated with that Union but, what I could find is that they have some prerequisites that need to be met in order to be eligible to join.
According to their statutes :
"211 Rätt till medlemskap i förbundet har den som har avlagt ingenjörsexamen omfattande minst 180 högskolepoäng vid svensk högskola eller den som har likvärdig utländsk examen och har svensk anknytning. Förbundsstyrelsen får efter särskild prövning bevilja annan person "
English translation: “211 The right to membership of the association is granted to those who have completed an engineering degree of at least 180 credits at a Swedish university or to those who hold an equivalent foreign degree and are Swedish-affiliated. The Federal Administration may, after special examination, grant other person”
My interpretation of that clause; is that if you reside in Sweden and work here, you should be eligible to be a member. But that’s not for me to decide.
They refer all questions to their contact form and welcome all questions regarding becoming a member, but ask that its done through the contact form. Could only find the contact form page in swedish.
Hope this helps.
https://www.sverigesingenjorer.se/hjalp-kontakt/kontakta-oss/
Edit: you of course also have to have an engineering degree minimum 180 swedish university points or equivalent.
Thank you for the assistance! From my earlier research I do hold a qualifying engineering degree. I’m also interested in studying for a Masters or potentially PhD at Göthenburg, but frankly will accept any path to legally move and work somewhere that isn’t the US. The EU in general and Sweden or Germany in particular have been my focus thus far and I sincerely appreciate a new route to investigate.
After some really quick checking i would say fastest safest way (to get permanent recedency) is probably study permit, look for work during studying with an employer open to up your hours once your studies are over. So you can get a work permit. And before you known it 4 years have passed you can apply for permanent residence. One more year then apply for citizenship.
Edit: since you said you were open to studying
Edit 2: you probably already knew all this. If so read this as someone trying support your decision rather than some rando on the interwebs over splaining.
Edit 2
I found the individual pieces through my research earlier this year. Laying it out for me plainly really helps and has me revisiting the idea. I think I stumbled after learning about the need for enough funding to self-support? I’ll look into it more.
Thank you, I really appreciate your help and encouragement.
Do you mean the 80% of mean salary thing, for permanent recedency? Self-support is probably a weird traslation. Self sufficient is probably the meaning. That you don’t need monetary support.
No, just your job duties are split amongst your team until you get back. The corporate overlords keep churning, even if your parents or child dies. Don’t have enough PTO allocated? Then you’ll get fired.
Balance the workload. Usually a lot of people go on a holiday so there is less work for us (IT). Alot of my colleagues like the airconditioning in the office so they stay in.
Lol no you can’t do that. Many students work during the summer and get a one month contract, or pace is just slower during the summer.
Either that, or more realistically, the output of the company tanks during the summer. It’s ok because everyone expects most people to be on vacation during the summer time and everyone will just work around it.
Most companies know not to take projects on over that period. Since every company works like that it’s not a problem. You could higher temporary contractors but realistically those contractors are going to charge a lot of money, because they also don’t want to be working over the summer. Best to just plan around it.
Not in Europe but similar situation. You either have enough staff in the team, or staff that with similar skills in other teams, that someone can cover them for that period, or you hire a contractor. Also depends how long they’re gone and how urgent things are.
But usually you hire slightly more staff than you need. I mean what if someone gets really sick? What if you suddenly get multiple urgent things? In the down time there’s extra things you can do that aren’t “make new shit” so it’s not like you’re paying people to do nothing.
In the US we hire significantly less workers than needed and threaten them with homelessness if they don’t make it work.
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My boss just lies. My predecessor DID have open heart surgery, and retired so he could have a heart replacement, so he missed a lot of time. They used to have a “sick time bank” but turned it off and enabled rollover instead. So my boss apparently just told everyone he was in his office for 6 weeks while he was hospitalized. Nice, but shouldn’t have to risk your own career and retirement to be human.
Home of the brave, land of the free.
Leader of the free world.
Greatest country on earth.
Don’t forget the strongest economy EVER!
Or the endless amounts of OPPORTUNITY!
The heart problems have been a production of the American Association of Processed Food Advertising.
No fresh vegetables were harmed in the making this text message.
What they don’t tell you is that the real American way for high skilled workers is to work a couple years, then get laid off or quit to take 6-8 months off doing woodworking or van life or some shit. Maybe found a company if you are too bored with what you are doing or start a YouTube channel. Americans take the time it’s just that they do it between jobs not during
I’ve never read more bullshit concentrated on a single post.
Is that what you do between jobs? Woodworking and starting a successful YouTube career?
Most people burn through savings and turn to credit cards to survive between jobs, but I’m glad it’s working out for you buddy.
- Not a high skilled worker
- Don’t live in America any longer
No, if I’m between real jobs, I do whatever other sorts of work needed to pay my bills. I have worked with plenty of high skilled people who did just as I described though, immigrants, Americans, etc. they earn twice a European salary for two years, then get laid off in a downturn or quit and spend a year doing dumb shit and net out ahead anyway.
What are you talking about.
they earn twice a European salary for two years
What industry are you in that an American salary is competitive with a European equivalent? Not only is the cost of living in Europe lower than it is in the United States the renumerations are also consistently higher.
Tech workers in the US can actually come out ahead. It’s very far from being the case in most fields though.
The average mid level salary is roughly twice that of the EU, with the discrepancy getting more extreme with experience. The system is grossly unfair, so the best compensated jobs also tend to have the lowest health care costs and best vacation packages.
Probably healthcare, doctors, nurses, PA’s, techs etc. make a lot less in Europe than in the US. But they also don’t have nearly the associated debt.
The only American salaries consistently lower than European salaries are service worker salaries, who are not high skilled workers.
And what does that extra money get you in the long run?
Obesity, a global logistics machine which spreads instability and advances America’s interest throughout the world, sometimes blowback from #2, and finally the ability to take a long time off between high paying jobs since you won’t get vacation time and you will probably get laid off or burnt out in a couple of years.
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By the time you’re making $~400k, which is what you’d need to be doing what you describe, you’re not doing skilled work any more, you’re in executive management.
You can do it with $200k if your family has money
Oh yes, I forgot about step one. Be rich to begin with.
Frankly it’s everybody else’s fault if they’re not taking this sage advice.
How is it advice? You may all be very upset about it but the truth is that there are a lot of high paid workers in the US doing just this. Some have family money, some live frugally to do it.
You seem to want to shit on the US, which is fine but a lot of people aren’t struggling and do take time off between high paying jobs. I’m not defending it, I live in Europe because I don’t agree with many things about the way of life but it is untrue to assume everyone in the US is poor and struggling.
You don’t get it, you absolutely don’t get it. No one is saying it’s not possible to do this in the US. Been rich already isn’t a solution to the problem, the fact that you have to be rich already to make this work is the problem, regardless of what nation you’re talking about.
I’ll humor your dismissive and empathy-void phrasing, let’s agree that life of different for the “high skilled workers”, what percentage of society do they make?
Are you suggesting (as your tone implies) that everyone working a non high skilled job isn’t living the American way and shouldn’t deserve a life with job protections and without crushing debt, as the comment you directly replied to so callously was claiming?
Put a dollar amount on your real American way and tell me what percentage of society deserves to live the real American way.
“highly skilled workers” because saying enjoying life is a privilege felt too convoluted?
Didn’t say it was fair, but that is what high earners are doing.
You fuckers joke, but this is totally not accurate. If your employer is large enough and you’ve got money to hire a lawyer if/when things go wrong, there’s a legally mandated program referred to as FMLA in the USA that gives you the right to 12 whole fucking unpaid weeks of time away from your job if the company that your employer contracts out to handle these things approves of your request and your medical providers properly fill out all the paperwork necessary. So suck it Europe. And suck it Asia. And suck it Africa. And suck it all the other continents that don’t have FMLA.
ITT: People not understanding sarcasm
gives you the right to 12 whole fucking unpaid
unpaid
That’s not really something to brag about. But poe’s law is real, and maybe you’re doing a bit?
IMO The sarcasm is pretty thick in OP’s comment. At least, as an American, I’m picking up on a whole lot of mockery of the red tape that goes along with this “benefit” if you are lucky enough to work somewhere that even offers it in the first place.
European here. I thought the sarcasm was pretty obvious. Europeans online will often take any opportunity to dunk on USA, even if it’s an obvious mockery/joke. It’s a bit weird, lol.
Unpaid, and you need a lawyer.
And you say it as if it was a good thing. You people have been brainwashed by a cult.
lol 12 weeks unpaid
you know we europeans get money while sick based on our salary, so we don’t have to use up our financial reserves if we get sick. and this pretty long - after a few months sick pay gets reduced to about 70% of your income, but i was nearly a year on sick leave when my back crapped out hard and needed multiple surgeries. i never had to fear that i lose my living arrangement or even a lot of living standard - i didn’t even lose my job.
your FMLA sounds like “you are allowed to die homeless if you are sick and don’t have reserves”
It is exactly that.
Unpaid. And, at least in my experience, you have to use up your paid leave before you can start drawing from that unpaid time. That is worlds different from the typical paid time off in Europe.
Edit: I totally missed the satirical tone of your comment the first time I read it.
Unpaid lmao
There’s nothing like a ridiculous generalization to highlight how stupid Europeans are.
/s
It’s also not technically wrong, its my understanding as someone in the US, a lot of places if you take medical leave, you’re required to use up all your vacation and sick leave doing so, before the company let’s you start eating into unpaid days or medical leave. So if you have a large medical issue, have a kid, etc, this post is true, you’re being forced to use up all your vacation days to have surgery, or birth, and recover.
Most decent jobs will give you SOME maternity or paternity leave.
My wife gets 5 weeks and I get 6, but I was allowed to stretch it to 7 weeks with pre-approval.
There’s a big difference between ‘most decent jobs give you some maternity leave’ and ‘every job must give you 14 weeks (Germany) of maternity leave’.
Oh no I totally agree. Workers need rights.
I’m just offering the more average experience.
5 weeks is an insult and harmful to the child. Also not something to brag about.
I do not disagree. I was offering the more “expected” experience as an American who yearns for better maternity and paternity rights.
You may be given it, but the problem I was trying to point out is that I think places force you to use all the paid time you have left before you start eating into the maternity/paternity leave, thus rendering OP’s post true: you’re forced to use your vacation time on medical issues in the US.
Yes. I agree that it’s a problem.
No, we don’t have to use vacation and/or sick pay to utilize LOA. Source: I went on paternity leave which was theough LOA benefits (not unpaid, though pay was like 70% or something based on some range of time leading up to the LOA start date) and came back to work with all of my vacation and sick pay available to me.
Then again, I don’t think it works the same at every job.
A statement which, in itself, is a generalization.
- Vacation (Annual Leave) for the EU is minimum 4 weeks (20 paid days) per year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absence_management
- The US has no federal mandate for paid vacation, where the private sector average is about 10 vacation days after one year, plus about 6 paid holidays, totaling around 16 days annually: https://time.com/4227072/job-benefits-united-states/
In addition, some European countries have more, like Sweden’s legal minimum is 25 paid days per year, with a special rule for new employees hired after August 31 granting only 5 days until the next April. Sick days 1–14: Paid by employer at a minimum of 80% of salary, subject to a deduction, and from Day 15 onward: Compensation provided by the state, typically 80% for 364 days, then 75% up to 550 days, with medical certification and administrative reporting required. https://www.e-days.com/holiday-compliance-guide/emea/sweden
Even if what you said were true, the “stupid” Europeans have it better than the US.
Cool. Thanks for getting the joke
Who would read this as some sort of prejudice or attack against Europeans?
If you think this post is a comment about how bad Europeans and the European system is, you may have some mental problems around this issue.
Not sure if this is a serious dumb comment or I’m being wooshed because saying “how stupid Europeans are” is exactly a ridiculous generalization.
Hmm
What are the statutory rights of US workers?
Yeah, only a fool would take the whole summer off. Everything’s so expensive when the kids are off school. Couple of weeks in early spring then another couple in autumn, then a week off at Christmas and week somewhere in the winter. Gotta spread the little holiday we get out.
