They think they’ll get more money, but they don’t realize that people won’t even consider their cars due to lack of integration. I recently bought a used car for my kid. One of the nicer ones I looked at didn’t work with his phone, so we eliminated it from consideration.
Removing smartphone integration from its vehicles opens the door for GM to grow its in-vehicle subscription revenue. Yep 💩
I’ll happily celebrate whatever loss hits Google.
but this is so shitty I prefer Google
We need a Linux OS and DE for cars
i use carch btw
KDE Plasma Car: can use Customize Panel to move around physical parts of the car (HELP the steering wheel is inside the engine somehow HOWDOIFIXTHIS)
Help I used grub to switch engines but forgot to switch fuel type now it only boots into emergency mode
Money.
There I wrote the whole article in one word.
Could it be money?
It’s money, isn’t it?!
It’s not money. The executives of these companies revealed the reason they are doing this is because they believe they can provide a better end user experience. They wouldn’t lie would they?
So, by utilizing built-in systems, the car manufacturers would indeed be able to collect more data about how you use the systems in place, while also possibly getting more money out of you through subscriptions.
Nooooooo that’s totally unlikely. It’s probably just for our best!
Knobs are better
The big question is why we started adding computer operating systems to our vehicles to begin with. But the answer is still the same as ClydapusGotwald states…money. I’m starting to think the answer to most of the worlds woes is…money. Maybe money has been the problem all of this time. Fuck money. We can utilize our resources and feed and house everyone without that shit but then there wouldn’t be any space billionaires and we need them to save us all. /s
The big question is why we started adding computer operating systems to our vehicles to begin with.
Originally, automakers tried to shoehorn proprietary subscription services into their vehicles for GPS and roadside assistance and satellite radio. But the opt-in for these services was scant, because they were obnoxious to set up and overpriced relative to - say - a TomTom or a cell phone’s core features. And you could get after-market integration added to your vehicle through its entertainment system, so why bother with the clunky manufacturer options.
CarPlay and AndroidAuto were concessions that automakers began to adopt because they sold more vehicles that way. Reversing this out will likely have the same effect it did the first time - by driving people to foreign car companies like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Kia.
I already see Kia cars on the road fucking everywhere. And moves like this will only accelerate the trend, I’m sure.
why we started adding computer operating systems to our vehicles to begin with.
Because fuel injection operates better than even the most high tech carburetors across a wider range of environments. And if you have more sensors and active feedback you can better control everything from emissions to warm up time. Everything trickles down from racing / luxury vehicles. Once you have processors involved, might as well do fancy things with them inside the cabin too.
A lot of the dash / center console nonsense is consumer cost cutting, but frankly it should’ve been separate from the start. Any budget phone is a better GPS / media platform than a half-baked system by a vehicle manufacturer. At this point it should just be a USB-C or bluetooth connection so the device without the bargain basement processor can do the heavy lifting for a user interface.
At this point it should just be a USB-C or bluetooth connection so the device without the bargain basement processor can do the heavy lifting for a user interface.
But that’s what car play and android auto are
No those are links between two separate systems. I just want to use my phone screen and the car’s speakers / power.
Oh gotcha, a simple head unit
How long until they start putting some kind of DRM in cars that prevents you from just installing an aftermarket android auto head unit?
They’ve been trying that for a while. They do it by routing critical cat functions through the radio that don’t need to go through there.
Daaaamn. The closest thing I could think of was my friend’s 96 (98? Whenever the EK body started) Honda civic that had the factory alarm and remote locks in the radio. He ended up splicing some wires and shoving the factory radio into his glove box or something to get around it.
This. Of course, you could just mount a cheap tablet in front of the head unit and be done with it.
Most cars are basically bricks without the main unit, for example the air conditioning is set using proprietary commands on the can bus from the fancy touchscreen. Or setting all the options of the adas, sensors and so on
Or an aftermarket floor mat or air filter?
So manufacturers can bill you monthly for the same features…
oh look another problem I’m too poor to have
Yes, blame automotive business that you arent able to aquire a new car free, that falls in line with todays snowflake mentality.
- nowhere in their comment are they saying they blame automakers by specifically
- nowhere in their comment are they saying they should get cars for free
Stop getting so offended, snowflake.
Removed by mod
We found the biggest moron on the internet.
day old outrage account
Bait used to be believable
What a piece of human detritus you are. Have a great day!
Are you a billionaire or are you lazy?
Offended by a simple comment but calls that person a snowflake. Prime loser mentality 👍 good work, snowflake.
Got off mah lawn you damn kids!
Rock and roll is too loud and oatmeal is too spicy!
The cars (in EU) used to be under 20.000€ ~6 years ago. Yes, I understand inflation exists.
Rent seeking behavior. They want subscription revenue instead of wanting to deliver what consumers want.
For the most part, it’s believed that carmakers are doing way with Android Auto support simply as a way to expand their control over user data. Because Android Auto utilizes your phone’s connection, all of the data that runs through it goes straight to Android and the phone manufacturer. So, by utilizing built-in systems, the car manufacturers would indeed be able to collect more data about how you use the systems in place, while also possibly getting more money out of you through subscriptions.
You are unfortunately correct.
It’s not free you know.
Yes, the software doesn’t cost anything but the chipset is supplied by a single manufacturer Qualcomm and costs a bomb.
That’s such an obvious deflection, though. My last car was a GM vehicle, with built-in OnStar right there in the box behind the rearview mirror. Built into the price I paid was hardware I didn’t want, didn’t pay a subscription for, yet was collecting my driving data and selling it.
Building a functionally useful infotainment system to replace Android Auto, with all of the bells and whistles needed to complete, is going to cost them the same or more. The difference is the rent seeking behavior, the demand for subscriptions, and getting more opportunities to spy on their customers for profit.
There’s more than just Qualcomm in the ARM market.
Also, so what? Do you think the cars are currently sold at a loss? They profit on each car sold, and that includes the infotainment.
You can’t run it on a Mediatek or a Rokchip or whatever?
Back to the days of rip out the head unit and stick one in that does have the features you want?
I imagine they’ll try to make this increasingly difficult; maybe even impossible.
It already is for a lot of modern cars. Especially EVs. I imagine they are so tied into the functionality of the car that it makes the vehicle impossible to drive without the OEM headunit.
Good luck. Everything is integrated now with nonstandard form factors. The work and cost to do my 2020 transit is ridiculous. Phone mount and Bluetooth it is.
I just had a little magnetic clip for my air vent where I could attach my phone and put up a map.
I’d sooner go back to doing that than use a “Gemini-based AI assistant” in my fucking car.
I quite literally just bought one of those clips recently because I am done with Android Auto, and Google in general as much as I can be.
That’s another reason the manufacturers are increasingly locking vehicle features behind the touchscreen. If you buy a 3rd party replacement, you can’t control the AC.
Car mechanics are basically going to need to become hackers.
99% of them won’t, but yeah, a couple will figure out how to ‘unlock’ your car, like a smartphone, install a custom OS on it.
Are you talking about music/NAV systems or CEOs?
I’d rip out the touch screen SO fast
And then lose control of numerous functions of your car.
It’s simply not an option in modern cars.That’s the “why I can’t do it” part.
But if it was possible to get knobs and buttons for everything and a small-ish screen only for info, I’d take that. I’d pay for that. Touch screens are dangerous. I’d at most be comfortable to swipe on the screen to show different infos like GPS, temperature/airflow, music/radio. Otherwise I want buttons and knobs with little lights.
I 100% understand what you mean. I just bought a VW ID.4, and IMO they have a good balance. Everything needed for normal driving is handled with buttons, and although some are touch, they do have haptic feedback, and it works OK IMO.
I was looking at the Skoda Enyaq, because it has traditional buttons and more things operated through them.
But it cost about €5000 extra for the same features as is in our fully equipped ID.4 when used and 4 years old. But now I’m happy we chose the ID.4 instead of an Enyaq with fewer features. Because the ID.4 works way better than I expected.
It’s crazy and previously absolutely unheard of that the Skoda version of a similar car to a genuine VW is more expensive.Oh wow, it IS odd that Skoda would be more expensive and €5k is a lot! Very odd indeed.
I’m glad you found a car you like!
And replace it with what? You can’t just hot glue knobs on the center console and expect them to work.
That’s the “why I can’t do it” part.
But if it was possible to get knobs and buttons for everything and a small-ish screen only for info, I’d take that. I’d pay for that. Touch screens are dangerous. I’d at most be comfortable to swipe on the screen to show different infos like GPS, temperature/airflow, music/radio. Otherwise I want buttons and knobs with little lights.
No need to do that. You could get a Slate and put in what you want.
I am always surprised I don’t hear more discussion about Automotive Grade Linux.
Gonna be honest. Its a multi thousand kilo death machine. I’m going to leave it to professionals to fuck with. I’m going to force as much of the liability on others as I can.
Something something year of the Linux car
You heard it on Lemmy first!
Because it’s corporate controlled embedded Linux, you aren’t guaranteed any freedom or control. Hell you aren’t even guaranteed access to a debug menu. Technically a car manufacturer could make a open a free car running embedded Linux that does give you freedom but the chances are absurdly low.
TiVoization
Man, that sounds INCREDIBLE!!! Never heard of this! Linux on my pc, my laptop, my phone, and now my CAR! 🤣
That’s what most? cars used for a long time (there is also GENIVI)
Many manufacturers are switching to Android as the base OS so they can just hire app developers rather than developers that know other UI toolkits
I wish I could develop my own apps on my own car. I mean I own the car… why can’t I “sideload” my own created apps? Their apps are sht anyways.
Not only will Automotive Linux not save us it will power the new proprietary car systems
You can, but it’s a Google filled minefield. A good view of it is reading into all of the trouble of using Android Auto in GrapheneOS without destroying all the privacy protections. It’s essentially impossible to get navigation going without doing so, but audio for music and phone calls can be done with some hoop jumping. You’re still probably better off just using bluetooth though.
There are open source navigation apps. No need for google.
No, you misunderstand what I was trying to say, so I probably didn’t communicate it well. You cannot use any of them, open source or not, without allowing the Google Play Services some rather invasive permissions. That’s the Google I was referring to.
Best thing to do is remove google play services if at all possible. Installing microg will solve most issues. This of course means rooting the device. Which is admittedly not an easy task when dealing with head units.
.? No the information entertainment system is fully proprietary as far as I know. Without any way of flashing something else like Linux on it.
You probably can, just nobody bothers to do it. My Subaru has installable apps. Hell older Hondas (and possibly current ones) just run android. You can even get to the regular android UI on them.
I’m pretty sure the sofware that is running on the information entertainment system from VW is fully proprietary without any way of flashing it with a custom rom or running Linux on it.
I’m not taking about connecting other devices like apple or android phone to this system.
It kind of makes sense to not allow people to do that - just imagine what horrors people will create that totally will kill people. Cars are dangerous.
People have been able to change their own brake pads for as long as cars existed.
There are two things hidden here:
- People totally got killed by doing their own maintenance
- There is a difference between physical maintenance and, well, you know that people will install some buggy self driving app
the entertainment system should have zero access to anything that controls the movement of the car. androidauto apps can’t implement self driving functions either. if it’s possible, the car manufacturer was incredibly irresponsible and needs to be sued into oblivion. see, the actual problem is not that irresponsible users could implement “self driving apps”, but that the entertainment system lacks any real security, is filled with vulnerabilities, and often even have remote access capabilities with bluetooth/wifi/cellular, and bad actors could load malware wirelessly that would kill the passengers and whoever else on the road.
Not only is is possible, there are many CAN bus attacks from the entertainment system I’ve seen over the years. That, along with your noted remote attacks makes modern cars a nightmare. It doesn’t help that manufacturers cheap out on basic protections to save a few bucks (see the Hyundai boys and the lack of an installed engine interlock).
yeah, unfortunately. but do androidauto apps have access to the CAN bus? I would at least hope that this platform would not grant access to it
One would hope. But given we’ve seen CAN bus attacks over basic radios, I wish I could say I was confident they’ve taken those basic precautions. Car hacking is one of those topics that can keep you up at night when you think about how lax some manufacturers are to save a buck.
Lacking government regulation in the largest markets, proper separation will never be enforced, because it isn’t to the manufacturers’ benefits. And that probably isn’t going to happen until hacked infotainment systems kill enough people to draw attention, unfortunately.
Why are you assuming that the infotainment center in a car can take over steering at all?
People totally got killed by doing their own maintenance
People have totally gotten killed from maintenance done by a “professional” (new kid on the job at the shop.)
I watch YouTuber CarCareNut and he’s shown many stupid mistakes made by dealerships.
I assure you I take greater care doing repairs than a tech who will get yelled at if they don’t finish the job fast.
If saftey is your concern I hope you do not blindly trust manufacturers given their history of “safety and security”. My concern is software freedom: being in control of your own computing (instead of the creator being in control). All software has bugs, but at least 3rd party software isn’t intentionally adding anti-features and spyware.
He’s at least right on the front that physical maintenance is easier to do right and be understandable to your avg person due to its higher barrier of entry.
Digital lower barrier of entry if you can just side load apps means that some real dumb shit will be done that can cause way more problems.
Both of the possibility of killing people. But physical is harder to fuck up if for no other reason then you can see or feel it’s wrong. Digital is already a problem with distracted drivers. Let’s not make it easier.
Not to mention there’s literally nothing that actually requires the infotainment and canbus being isolated… So digital attacks are extremely likely. The rabbit hole basically always leads to do not allow user access no matter what for the safety of fucking everyone.
Maybe you’ve missed the real dumb shit getting out from various tech manufacturers. I’m not a car guy but I know enough about software and manufacturers screwing people to see that criminals and amaturers are not the real issue in regards to saftey or repair.
A Suburu car has a text pop up advert from the manufacturer on display screen, which can’t be used for normal functionallity until you click off it. Is that distracting to you? Want to bet it doesn’t ever get worse than that when the incentive is there and they’re in control? Source: 5m video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw3KRfy9vQY
When I have time I’ll try to recall car specific repair issues that lead to injury. All that comes to mind is OneWheel, and the medical industry screeming death by cost.
100% fearmongering bullshit designed to erode property rights. Cars have been completely “open” throughout their entire history until recently, and the problems caused by irresponsible owner modification have been both negligible and entirely acceptable (compared to the alternative of going full-blown police state to stop them).
Make no mistake: full-blown police state is exactly what you’re arguing for when you suggest people shouldn’t have the right to modify their own fucking property!
They would probably have a panic attack if they learned about megasquirt. Cars being locked down is so unnatural that most of their design allows them to be controlled by open source solutions.
Your car radio can’t kill people lmao
Of course I’m talking about the information entertainment system. Not the main Can bus that is handling breaking or whatever…
2015 cars came with bluetooth support for hands free calling using your phone. This was great.
After that, it was replaced with carplay or android auto as the only means to get hands free calling. Stupid…stupid.
Plus, last 2 new cars i bought, i had to take the interior roof apart so i could access the built in cellular antennae wire and remove that spyware P.O.S. And by the way, car works fine without it.
They didn’t really replace it though. Pretty much every modern car sold today has Bluetooth. You don’t have to use android auto.
Yeah, I finally got a car with Android Auto earlier this year and was excited to get it. I thought it would basically let me mirror my phone on the car touchscreen, but instead, it only uses specific apps for things. I hate it. I just use Bluetooth for phone or with Revanced for audio and I park my phone in the cupholder for nav. Works better.
Toyota didn’t have Android Auto for many years after 2015
2017 Toyota. Android auto was optional. We opted not to pay for it
Toyota also had Bluetooth before then as well in fact many cars had Bluetooth before then. I had two 2014 vehicles including one Tacoma which I still have that is Bluetooth but not Android auto. I will say having Android auto is nice but it is limited as well. My new 2024 RAV4 has Android auto wireless and it’s fantastic.
My 2018 Camry doesn’t interestingly enough
On most cars, it’s probably easier to unplug it on the head unit side. They’re generally designed to be accessed for repair
I would be shocked if there wasn’t a single fuse just for that antenna.
I think it’s common for the antennas to contain both GPS and LTE. I think the fuse would power the whole fin?
On the head unit side, they’re generally separate cables
Correct the head mefia unit has the cellular plug. But to get to it, id have to remove the whole dashboard. The roof was easier
I still use that Bluetooth everyday in my Mitsubishi Outlander I don’t need more than this… I also installed some magnet mount for the phone case.
The only problem is that since December 2024 android release on Pixels it stopped connecting “media audio” automatically due to some timing issue or something. So I have to manually toggle that button on my phone since that day… (Google Pixel) And now Samsung seems to have the same issue since they started updating to newer android versions.
Google is not focusing on fixing this and just focusing on Android auto instead. But it only impacts some Japanese makes. I think some Mazda also have the issue.
I have a Samsung and I’ve had two of them this year actually three of them this year one fold three, one fold six, one s24 ultra and one pixel 9 and none of them have had this issue that you mentioned.
Right. And which Mitsubishi model and year do you have?
I don’t have a mitsubishi, you didn’t mention Mitsubishi in your comments. You mentioned some Japanese cars. I had a quest which I recently traded in and I still own a 2014 tacoma. Both of which are Japanese vehicles
Fair enough. But that’s why I mentioned “some” and not “all”. I’ve never heard about a Toyota impacted by this issue.
Mitsubishi are definitely impacted. Some Mazda too according to some people posting. But I’ve read less posts about Mazda. They must be using some similar Bluetooth receivers in the infotainment system.
This is possibly the first post when this issue originated but then in January 2025 they improved it with a workaround that works till today, but before connection was always automatic without any workaround.
Anyway. Every single time you start the engine you need to go to Bluetooth settings on the phone toggle “media audio” (that failed to connect automatically) one or two times and then it connects and you can enjoy BT normally. A pain in the ass especially for 10 minute trips.
