The fun part is when you are involved and it still happens
Well atp, it’s just genetics and hormones, which isn’t really her fault either lol
Long as it’s still the man’s fault for desiring intimacy, am I right or am I right ladies?
The assumption that it’s always a neglectful husband causing marital issues is incredibly demoralizing, especially when the response to “but what if it isn’t a neglectful husband” is this sort of thing. Just more reasons why the man is the one being unreasonable.
Look, no man is “owed” their wife’s affections or physical intimacy. But it is often an important piece of an adult romantic relationship, and it’s not unreasonable for a member of that relationship to have some feelings about things changing over time, or suddenly for that matter.
Is affection a thing that even exists?
damn dude, you ok?
I’m fine. What’s wrong with the rest of you? When’s the last time you saw actual people do anything other than devolve into a who hates whom the most contest? Because I’m drawing a complete blank.
That probably happens somewhere not on the Internet
That really depends. My wife cuddled me pretty heavily a lot of the weekend, and grabbed me while I was trying to get up and go to work, but for other people it was Friday. I went out to a bar and saw people being affectionate, both romantically and platonically. In fact “who hates whom contests” are something I see from time to time among people I know IRL, but it’s more of an every other month or so thing, not the default social interaction.
No. So stop wishing for it and do something productive.
Its definitely not always the mans fault but we would do well to understand that men don’t have the same needs when it comes to maintaining a long term sexual relationship.
Women generally need to feel a sense of emotional security, trust and connection for a long term relationship to thrive, especially in the bedroom. Men would like this too, but they don’t necessarily need it to continue a sexual relationship.
Unfortunately in many (perhaps most) relationships women do feel that a disproportionate share of household and childcare duties fall on them, which erodes at those core foundations of a healthy long term relationship.
Is it all on men to work this out? No. But if they want to take an active approach to maintaining the health of their relationship, meeting their partners emotional needs has the highest likelihood is doing that and keeping the bedroom alive.
Women like to be physically intimate when they feel safe, understood and appreciated. Men should ask for the same in their partners even if we’re conditioned not to ‘need’ all of that in the same way.
I think your point about differing needs is really the core of all of the friction. At least when we’re not talking about the worthless kind of husband demanding shit and not actually being present etc.
I can only speak for myself, but the presence or lack of physical intimacy has a massive effect on whether or not I feel: valued, appreciated, or desired in a relationship. Lack makes me start thinking things like “Am I your partner, or just the providertm? Do you actually want me around when I’m not providing value, doing things for you? Is this a job or a relationship? Are you no longer attracted to me? Do you even really want to be near me, spend time with me?”
And note I keep using the phrase “physical intimacy”. I’m not a prude, if I meant sex I’d say it directly. That’s part, but not all of it.
When we potato on the couch, has it literally been months since my partner sat next to or leaned on me? Are they literally sitting on the opposite side, as far as they can possibly get away? Ok, is it a “I don’t feel safe” thing? No, they’ll sit with me when I ask, or when I go to them, but never of their own accord.
Stuff like that builds up over time, and personally, when I talk about stuff like this I’m talking patterns of behaviour over years, not “wah wah I couldn’t get the nookie when she was trying to figure out how to get a newborn to sleep through the night”.
So it’s infuriating when the horde comes out to insist the only reason there could possibly be problems is if the guy is a shitpile, and that there’s always layers upon layers for why it’s never okay for a man to feel anything about a lack of physical intimacy. For fucks sake I do my part, I do everything I can to meet her emotional and other needs. Am I not allowed to feel like I’m being treated as a roommate rather than a partner? Am I not allowed to feel like I’m not desired? What about my own emotional needs? No, because so many shitpile men exist I guess.
I get where you’re coming from and I’ve personally gone through many of the feelings you’re describing. As men we sometimes feel that (physical) intimacy is how our partners communicate to us our ‘value’ in a way. Some of that is toxic cultural norms but there is also just fundamental differences in how intimacy is perceived between men and women in long term relationships.
As you’ve aptly stated, the difference is men often feel that intimacy is part of how they are made to feel appreciated and valued while, in my experience, women need to feel validated, appreciated and valued emotionally as the soil in which a persistent desire for physical intimacy grows.
I am by no means diminishing the experience of men or trying to say its all on them. I have literally posed the questions that youve asked in past relationships and while they understood where I was coming from it never fixed the rift. Only after I took the initiave to take interest in and prioritize their emotional security and trust in me did the dynamic change from a diminishing interest in intimacy and rare or less frequent initiation to the opposite of that.
I’m just speaking on my own experience, particularly regarding long term relationships. Hopefully it’s helpful to someone out there.
I wish I could be that picky lol, if I had to feel safe, understood, and appreciated I’d still be a virgin lmao. If I ever told a woman “no I want to feel safe, understood, and appreciated” I’d be called an incel. At best she’d get the ick and ghost me, at the most generous interpretation because “if I need that from her how am I going to provide it to her” (but I honestly think it’s because desiring “safety and understanding” isn’t “manly” and “appreciation” “what do you mean…patriarchy…women are the ones who aren’t appreciated…yadda yadda.” Sort of the same deal as the classic “I want a sensitive man who cries” and then the second you do she loses any semblance of respect for you as a person.)
I hear what you’re saying but I’d say that not all women are like that and these conversations are really meant for someone you’re prepared to have a deep commitment with, not necessarily early on in a relationship. There are a ton of toxic attachment patterns and cultural norms in our society that are challenging to navigate but these tend to matter less as a relationship evolves into a long term one.
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Women aren’t capable of caring for and making their partners safe and appreciated??
Says the one assuming all intimacy issues are caused by male failure lmao. Wow your ass on outta here with that shit, “generalizations for me but not for thee.” What’s the line again, “If it doesn’t apply to you I wasn’t talking about you?”
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Please reread the chain of comments. This is specifically about situations where there is respect, involvement with child rearing, and with household running/chores/etc.
But that’s impossible because men bad and women perfect and always the victim.
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“Physical intimacy is only sex nothing else, and men who want physical intimacy in an intimate relationship are the problem.”
- You.
Holy fuck, this thread is a circle jerk of “God, I know her vagina was stitched shut and she cant get enough calories but, damn it, I wanna fuck after she rocks the kid to sleep.”
It isn’t her fucking feelings you divorce demanding loser.
That is a complete and total strawman. No one has said anything about such clearly unreasonable shit like wanting sex immediately after a newborn, or while the woman is recovering/post-partum/etc.
How is anyone supposed to have a calm and respectful conversation about this stuff when the moment you even brush up against it slightly, the “men are all horrible awful pigs and it’s all their fault” brigade comes out in full force?
I’m sorry so very many people have encountered so many god awful men as they have. I am, as best as I can, doing what I can to not be one of them.
And there are still intimacy issues in my relationship. Am I not allowed to talk about this because so many men have been awful that it’s just verboten? Fuck everything about that.
I don’t think some of you incels are actually married.
I have multiple friends that nearly died, were hospitalized, etc. My wife went anemic and suffered a number of other ailments. Hell, not even carrying but the act of breastfeeding requires a metric fuckton of calories.
I will never know what women go through because I’m not one of them.
You seem proud to carry the baton of permanently knowing even less.
Have a pleasant morning.
I don’t think you know me at all, and you need to stop attacking shadows.
Is that enough evidence for you? My hand with my wedding ring, a few of my daughter’s toes at the top, and an old school style hand written timestamped note.
My two year old daughter has been having awful allergies since last night, when I slept on the floor in her room so I could comfort her when she kept waking up coughing throughout the night despite having doctor approved antihistamines, some “all natural”/home remedy cough syrup, and an albuterol rescue inhaler. I used the snot sucker, warm water to help cut the mucus, kept her propped up to help with breathing and mucus drainage. My wife got a full night of rest. No baby monitor, no interruptions.
This morning I’m also solo for around four and a half hours while my wife goes and does a weekly thing that helps keep her real passion (that she can’t do for a living unfortunately) alive.
I’m not looking for an award for doing the husband and father thing. I’m not expecting anything from her for this, and I’m not expecting anything from the internet or the comment section at large. I don’t need fucking “good boy points”.
What I need is for chucklefucks like you to just fucking stop. Stop telling every man with issues in their relationship that it is always without a doubt their fault. That they clearly don’t understand. That they’re having unreasonable expectations. That there is absolutely 0% chance they’re anything but wrong. Just take a step back and leave room for not even bare minimum understanding or sympathy, but just keeping your damn mouth shut if all you have is throwing shade.
Long as we’re throwing the “I’m actually a better more understanding husband than you and you don’t understand childbirth” shit around, let me slap my metaphorical cock on the table.
My wife hemorrhaged two thirds of the blood in her body during childbirth. The first moments of holding my child were struck through with concern that I was losing my wife. The nurses had the god damn crash cart ready.
Your insight into the birthing process is not unique.
I’ll say it again. This entire subthread has been born from the condition “what if the man wasn’t a shitpile”, and 90% of the responses have been bunch of people incapable of accepting that as a possibility, building strawmen, and then don quixote-ing themselves into a sense of moral superiority. Just fucking stop.
One guy to another, your hands look soft. What type of lotion do you use?
Well I don’t know if that’s worse: you being an incel or not. Minimally you sound emotionally abusive if your biggest concern about your postpartum wife is not her well-being and is more geared towards whether or not she’s serving up that delicious pussy.
My wife hemorrhaged two thirds of the blood in her body during childbirth. The first moments of holding my child were struck through with concern that I was losing my wife. The nurses had the god damn crash cart ready.
Never mind. If you’re admitting that you’re one of the worst human beings imaginable, kudos to you.
And I’ll go straight home and fuck my wife thank you. Despite your beautiful handwriting and eloquence, I have better things to do and would rather please her.
Note the last couple of words.
Stop telling every man with issues in their relationship that it is always without a doubt their fault. That they clearly don’t understand. That they’re having unreasonable expectations.
Holy shit, I just connected the dots here.
You don’t get enough sex cuz your wife is healing, and you’re essentially unloading the baggage on her?
Honestly I have zero knowledge of whether or not your wife is a problem in a relationship. I can tell just by listening to you that you are a sizable problem in your own relationship and have no idea.
The truth is that in the 50 years I’ve walked this God forsaken planet I’ve never once sat back to think about the injustice is committed against me as a man, or the perceptions against me. Frankly they don’t materialize in my daily life because I’m not a piece of shit. I don’t ever sit down and worry about whether or not people think I’m an ideal man or not.
Get a strange that you’re so awful and simultaneously so sensitive about it.
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And then downvote the living shit out of them because “damn it, your job is to get me laid!”
So it’s his fault or it’s not her fault?
It isn’t me, it’s mah ATP and hormones!!!
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It doesn’t sound like you were actually involved.
Or you don’t understand what the mother’s body goes through.
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Probably pissed that they also don’t get a “vacation.”
This is some boomer shit
Specifically American boomer, and something that’s still going on. There was a thread here on lemmy a while ago that was about how american culture is very different from much of the world in terms of how much the father does in the things mentioned here. That a lot of the world have had it kinda even for many decades and some places even centuries.
“I hate my bitch wife” is peak American boomer humor.
Its not. That is what people tell themselves to feel better.
A dude I used to work with left his wife to deal with the newborn.
It was so bad between dayshifts that he used to leave the house at 2am and just sit in a motorway service station with a coffee for a few hours just to get some peace before coming to work.
If I tried that, my other half would stab me in the face.
I got 3 months paid paternity leave through a state program. A coworker who had a kid that same month chose to not use the state program and take 2 PTO days instead. I talked to him before hand and told him about the program but he said something like “I wouldn’t be much help, she’s done it twice already so she has it handled”. It was very evident how his wife felt about him at the Christmas party that year.
She sought out my wife, who she knew had a kid recently too and my wife brought up how nice it was to have me home for those first few months and somehow the state program came up in the conversation. She then booked it over to me and asked me about it, not knowing what was going on or thinking much about it, I told her about it and that I can’t believe coworker didn’t do it. Then all hell broke loose. This tiny little lady dragged out my 6 foot heavy set coworker by the ear, calling him every name in the book. She made him use all his PTO days and went to spend new years somewhere warm. He bitched about how hard it was taking care of 3 kids on his own for weeks.
‘Funny’ enough all the guys in the office thought she was being ridiculous but all the women were praising her.
I think if a face stabbing is the result of doing something like that you have more serious problems…
I mean it’s obviously hyperbole, but as a pregnant woman with a toddler, I’d be absolutely livid to learn my husband was taking hours long coffee breaks while leaving the shared work of child rearing (specifically newborn care) to me alone.
Sleep deprivation will absolutely make you a crazy person, and this dude is just using this torture tactic on her out of laziness and selfishness.
Being livid is one thing, stabbing someone is an entirely different story… Let’s just hope it’s actually hyperbole.
Women do get a shitload more time off work for it than men, so they kinda have to be the one doing most of the childcare regardless of what either parent actually wants.
Friend of ours recently had another child, she is getting most of a year off, he got a couple weeks.
Here in Denmark people believe in shared parenting, so both parents get leave. “Parental leave” as opposed to “maternal” or “paternal” leave.
Yeah a few countries are more equal, of course you also have some that equally tell you to get fucked.
That’s a couple of weeks more than I ever got.
Same. I got my PTO requests approved for the day of the delivery and the day after, but “they couldn’t spare me for a third day”
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Sure, but then don’t be surprised at the other person doing less of the childcare when they have to go back to work almost straight away.
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Ehh, at that point it is going to vary so much by relationship, lifestyle and work its hard to really say.
Is your job easier or harder than raising kids? While I haven’t raised kids I have hung out with people who have them, pretty sure I have worked jobs that are much harder but currently do one that is much easier.
That’s nonsense. Raising young kids is more work than most jobs, sure. But that’s not because it has equal work density. It’s an exhausting 20h/day 7d/week low-med effort task. A job is a 8-12h/day 5-6d/wk med-high energy task. Miss me with that 50/50 as soon as you come home crap. That’s a ridiculous goal. Not to mention you shouldn’t be wasting time making a mental accounting spreadsheet to figure out if your partner did enough work to deserve sex that day.
Ideally everyone should have put in the same effort into the day and both partners should have the same energy level going to bed. Some days you both fall asleep dead, knowing you’ll wake up in two hours with the baby crying. Some days you get to bed with a little extra energy and the baby is sleeping through the night and maybe you have to think of something to do with that extra energy.
It’s obvious you’ll have less sex with a tiny baby just from the exhaustion, but if you’re wasting energy resenting eachother because of low effort, unrealistic expectations, or withholding sex, then maybe y’all need to consider whether you need to work on your relationship or look for another one. Because some of what I’ve read in this thread on both sides sounds more exhausting than single parenting 50% of the time and working a full time job.
This is a crazy take. My toddler is absolutely more work than any other job I’ve ever worked and I’ve done office work, physical labor, heck even childcare! If you give two shits about your kid, and follow modern childcare standards, childcare is a very taxing job. If you’re a crappy parent who just lets the kid eat fruit snacks and watch TV maybe it’s easier than whatever job the other parent has, but my husband works blue collar and we both agree that often my job is more taxing. He absolutely picks up 50% or more of the work when he comes home, and on weekends. When he burns out he gets a break, and when I burn out I get a break. We’re actually a team.
I want sex more than he does because I’m well taken care of, and he’s equally exhausted from helping. Literally cannot imagine saying no thanks if sex is on the table cause also, when a man is generous and equitable with his labor in life, that also spills over to how generous and equitable he is in bed.
I mean it looks like you two are living by the fall asleep with the same energy playbook so good work! At least you’re using some good tag team logic. I love the collaboration.
Completely anecdotal and privileged: my desk job was so much less dense than child care that going to work felt like a break when we had babies. Not to imply anything bad about anybody! But the mental accounting isn’t just unhealthy, it’s impossible because you don’t know how hard someone else’s subjective experience is.
The job wasn’t even good! It was galling and crushing. But at least I knew what was happening that day and could influence it somewhat.
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This was funny like 60 years ago
I dunno, my ex was ok with the kids, and I was able to sleep & nurse at the same time (small boobs) but breastfeeding knocked my libido down to less than zero. Usually I run pretty hot, but while nursing it was like I couldn’t care at all about sex, it felt like a chore, and when we did, I had both fear (because childbirth) and had to work just to get to a baseline level of desire at all. I always figured it was a natural birth control thing, nature helping so kids don’t come too close together.
My husband was a champ. He worked full-time and also stayed up at night manually pumping my breast milk while I was sleeping, and he’d wake up with th baby & fed the baby & changed diapers & he cooked meals too! The only thing he didn’t do is clean and that’s okay cuz I loved cleaning.
I wish I could say this wasn’t my exact experience.
Tack on the lack of any romantic overtures and it’s pretty much how it went though.“She wanted a divorce out of nowhere!” - Every deadbeat dad.
I always wonder what kind of point one wishes to make and what kind of responds they expect.
with this post?
it’s rage bait. they want to get engagement by playing into grievance stereotypes. and people are happy to respond with either their bias confirmation or their counter-argument.
it’s trolling, essentially.
Seems like a lot of trouble could be avoided if people who don’t actually want to take on the responsibilities of parenting stop reproducing.
Not a lot of people understand what parenting is going to be like before they have kids.
It might help if society was more honest about it. For starters, everyone could cut the shit with gaslighting people who say that they aren’t interesting in becoming parents. It’s a huge disservice to everyone involved.
Redneck boomer shit, can’t relate.
To OP or the person in the comic?
The comic itself
Ah misandrist memes, just what I needed to cheer myself up.
Next I’ll stop by instagram to see misogynist memes to get my full course.
my favorite part, is it’s never that the author of the meme is the one who just… picks shitty people. It’s always the fault of the entire gender, clearly.
I’ve met plenty of shitty women, men, and trans folks. and plenty of great ones. It’s almost as if being a shitty friend/partner has nothing to do with someone’s sex or gender, and it’s about their actions as an individual person. and frankly, if someone is shitty to you it’s your job to end the relationship, not to continue with it and expect them to be better than they have demonstrated themselves to be. whenever my exes did shitty things, it was over and I’m glad for that because now I don’t have a shitty partner that I married to and full of resentment and frustration that they refuse to take take on their fair share of adult responsibilities, who also resents me for not doing more for them while I was already doing 150%.
and almost like blaming the entire other gender is the point, because it absolves you of the responsibility of your own choices or worse, the blame of your unspoken expectations.
Wat…
Must be America again, because I’ve hardly seen this in Denmark, Sweden, Germany, the Netherlands, France, or Spain (all countries I’ve either visited for extended periods of time, or lived in for portions of my life).
In my own family, however, I am the biggest brother, so they basically made me take care of a lot of the dirty tasks involving my siblings.
Men, if you don’t want kids, get your tubes tied. Most insurances cover it. Just do it. Don’t wait for the “right time”, just get it done.
I got snipped on a valentines day because they had lots of openings. This was after we had been together for three years and decided kids weren’t an option for us. Haven’t regretted it. Next year will be our 20th anniversary.
