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The built in “app stores” that come on Linux distros are also complete jokes, the ones I’ve tried to use anyways.
Not a fan of KDE Discover. Bazaar looks promising.
Snap store can get the hell outta here.
Discover is ok… If you limit it to only managing Flatpaks.
I’m not sure I’d ever trust a GUI to manage pacman/apt/dnf
I’m gonna be honest, 99% of what I need to do, I do through Discover. Like, why would I bother typing a command out when the update button is right there.
CachyOS now doesn’t even ship with Discover and if you install it there’s a banner warning you not to use it to update base packages as it can mess stuff up.
CachyOS now ships with and recommends Shelly, and just from trying to use it I get the feeling it’s fundamentally flawed (both in the front-end and back-end), but I don’t know enough about package management to know for certain.
Oh wild. I still just hit Cachy Update, because I don’t like Octopi, but I should try that out.
Tho I was considering giving NixOS a try
I was wondering about Shelly when I was reading the release notes for Cachy. What do you feel is flawed?
If you’re in the CachyOS Discord and have a lot of patience, this is where I dumped all of my complaints and feedback on the day that I really tried to use it: https://discord.com/channels/862292009423470592/1500254688380063934
Keep in mind I was pretty new to Cachy/Arch and coming from Linux Mint, make of that what you will.
More specifically, this is what raised the alarm for me: https://discord.com/channels/862292009423470592/1500254688380063934/1500507281840668852 and following messages.
Basically, I tried to install
openrgb-next-gitfrom AUR using Shelly. The operation failed but was reported as successful. And the Shelly dev I was chatting with didn’t really seem to acknowledge the severity of the issue. After many more attempts, I eventually gave up on Shelly installed the package using paru. I don’t remember if there was any problem during that installation, but it did get installed in the end, which is more than I can say for Shelly.This exchange was 2 months ago, so it’s possible that things have improved since then, but that’s not enough time for me to give Shelly another chance yet.
What I’m about to say is pure speculation, and I have no concrete evidence, just my gut: I think Shelly, or at least its GUI, is vibe-coded. Too many things about it are half-baked but with the appearance of polish. Windows and dialogs that look pretty but are too small for their contents. No way a human developer would push that if it was tested even once.
A Shelly developer explained to me that it’s not a wrapper for pacman or any other tool, instead they re-implement the functionality provided by pacman using a lower-level library. To this I say: Shelly has not earned my trust in their code to manage packages on my main PC. When it’s more mature, when it has more eyes on it, and when it doesn’t give me the half-baked vibe, I’ll happily give it another chance.
I think Flatpaks are the future for general user installed apps. It’s way more secure and user friendly for non tech people. I’ve even had some flatpaks run significantly better, like Brave, despite conventional wisdom saying otherwise for a browser.
My discover casually uses 1gb of ram when i open it and after closing it stays at 500mb until i sigterm it
I actually like both Bazaar and discover. I enjoy using them to just browse for interesting apps. For linux to ever become adoptable for more people, good GUIs are absolute must haves. If you don’t like them that is of course fine, but it serves the greater good to have the option of using them.
Bazaar is the best app store for normies on Linux hands down.
Oh good. I fucking hate the snap store and thought it was my incompetence making it terrible, but here’s at least one other
I’ve been using Baazar and like it very much! I find most things that I’m looking for.
You don’t compile everything from code yourself? Amateur. /s
I don’t know about you but I start an entirely new FOSS project every time I need some functionality that doesn’t come with the base OS.
Why and which did you use? I haven’t had an issue with KDE Discover. Pop Shop was ass a few years back but it works well now that it is “Cosmic Store”.
The GNOME one that comes with Debian is useless. There’s like 3 things on it and of course they’re all out of date (Debian thing). It also doesn’t work to uninstall applications. The Ubuntu one of course pushes snaps so it’s no good. The Mint one likewise pushes flatpaks. In general across all of them there never seems to be much listed on them, so going there to browse isn’t useful. I can’t think of any other specific issues but just in general over the past 8 years they are always buggy and annoying to use.
I haven’t used KDE’s store before.
I prefer flatpaks so Mint’s is OK by me, but admittedly I have yet to actually daily drive Mint. Fair enough on the rest.
The Mint one likewise pushes flatpaks.
Most packages in Mint you can download from the system repo. You don’t have to use flatpacks. I have my LMDE set to show only system packages since i’m not a fan of flatpacks.
Debian (GNOME) has a flatpak plugin that allows the app store to use flatpaks. They got a lot of stuff there.
Truth. Fortunately updating and installing via command line is so easy and quick that I rarely feel the need to use Discover.
The Internet is my app store.
The mint one takes like 2 minutes to start…
I gave you installed 1 soft with it, absolutely not simpler in any way.
But, I bet it will only (albeit slowly) be getting better, not worse!
Who needs app stores anyway
Software is files, idgaf where they come from
Yeah that’s my only real complaint about Linux. I miss the ease of just downloading an exe and double clicking it
You can technically do that but app images have their own issues.
You can also download and double click executables that have no dependencies (like Pocketbase). The installation process handles resolving dependencies.
Oh that’s pretty cool I didn’t realize that.
Ironically I liked Chocolatey package manager on Windows. Hitting update and everything just updates is great. I hate launching a program and it’s like “here’s an update you need to do before using this and if you kick it down the road you’ll forget about it till next time you launch me”
The most obvious bait to be was 1 hour install time. Windows 11 took 2 hours to install, CachyOS took like 5 minutes. I imagine Arch is similar, there is simply no way. Lol
The biggest fucking lie
“…in geological terms.”
I remember installing Arch on an ancient MacBook I’ve got. Set the installer going then put it to one side knowing it was going to take a while.
It took about 7 minutes.
Of course, I then spent two hours trying to get the fucking Broadcom drivers to work, but that’s by the by.
Sounds like me with my eee-PC going through a good chunk of troubleshooting just to find out the reason why Wi-Fi drivers aren’t working is because it’s a 32-bit system and the arch project as a whole decommissioned 32-bit.
They have a dedicated 32-bit system branch, but still wifi driver support on it sucks.
I recently figured out that Windows installs can go way faster if you have a slightly better USB stick. I bought an Intenso High Speed Line 64 GB for 10.90€ and it cut down the time by half or even two thirds I would say.
Of course I try to avoid installing Windows in the first place, but I’m not just working on my own machines.
Sure, and Internet speeds probably matter a bit too. The download part was a bit faster than I remember, but then it hung up on the later parts for a while. Lol
Windows 11 took me 7 hours over 3 different days. Had to start and stop multiple times, had to retry multiple times, had to post support requests and wait, and to dive into bios because default settings that worked fine with Linux were making windows kill itself.
Oh yeah, my first try was downloading a Windows ISO and using KDE writer to put it on a USB, BIG mistake because we all know that windows sabotages their ISOs so that you can only burn them with a windows burner program.
Even when it finally worked, it still took a goddamn 2 hours and so many ads, so many “please also buy this!”
Once it was done I had setup windows with steam for my step son and then he didn’t use the machine anyway
No offense, but what are you installing it on? One of the things I oversee at my job is imaging. Installing fresh windows on any of our hardware is between 7 and 15 minutes total. Since windows 10 I also haven’t seen any need for additional drivers either unless you have something uncommon or want to replace one. Not trying to defend Windows, I just can’t understand how everyone always has the worst problems imaginable with it.
In the case I’m referencing, I was installing Windows 11 for a five year old gaming computer using the Windows 10 upgrade software, no USB or anything like that.
Technically I was going to use a custom USB made with Rufus to remove copilot, but by the time I got there they had already started the upgrade process. It really did take two hours, including the 15 minutes before I got there.
Admitting that works, then you’ve only got windows. You still have to install all the tools and productivity software. On any distribution, all that stuff gets installed as a matter of fact, and you’re basically done after 20 minutes or so.
The vast majority of computer users with those kinds of issues are
- probably using windows home
- On a big box store computer with a platter drive
- an i3 cpu
- and 8gb of ram
windows 10 couldn’t reliably run it’s own bundled software (Mail), by itself, with nothing else open, without that one app going “not responding” every few minutes on a computer with those specs.
Last time i checked, Walmart, best buy, costco, etc were still selling those specs with win11 which is notably bulkier and slower than 10, especially without an ssd, so things have only gotten worse for the average non-power-user.
That’s a perfectly servicible spec for basic operations on a mint install, you could probably even watch netflix or youtube on it with linux, but i wouldn’t want to run windows newer than xp on it.
It doesn’t help that big box retail stores are scam artists.
That was one of the things I hated about Walmart was they would sell these super cheap systems that I kid you not would crash on the demo software.
Like we had an HP flip-style laptop that they sold for $130 a few years back. And it was so bad that we intentionally ran it under a default account instead of a demo account. Because if we installed the demo software on it, Windows would run out of space and blue screen about time windows tried to update it.
Arch install time is mostly user dependent Id say
Lots of options and you’ll need to spend some time RTFM. But if you already know how you want to partition your disks, then the basic installation (with a network controller!) takes about two minutes.
Then you can restart into the cli, and the real questions - what else am I going to install? - can begin.
That was exactly where I was like, “huh”? Cause Cachy took hardly any time to install and windows is notoriously slow.
I mean if you dont know jack shit about linux or arch and try to follow the guide I’d imagine it could take you quite a while. It took me a while at least.
I did hear Arch is a bit more trouble, yeah. CachyOS was pretty straightforward from desktop environment to automatically detecting hardware and such. Pretty much the same features you see with Windows, just a lot faster.
The performance comments were a dead giveaway.
Nobody’s complaints with setting Linux up are that it runs slowly.
It may not run much of anything until you sort out your drivers properly, but it will do everything incorrectly LIGHTNING fast, compared to Windows.
Nobody’s complaints with setting Linux up are that it runs slowly.
I mean, really depends on the device. I’ve got a machine running Mint and it kinda chugs along. But it’s… I want to say at least 15 years old? Probably due for a RAM swap at the very least. Takes about five minutes to fully boot and if I run more than a few apps it drags.
At some point, there’s only so much an OS can do for you.
The bit about incompatible drivers and the mess of third-party installs necessary to get it in a comfortable state also rang true. Plus all the minutea of configuration, so you’re not typing in your password every time you sneeze. Windows does tend to come fully loaded out of the box, even if you’re using a bunch of their mediocre native apps. And the desktop instance tends to be pre-configured to satisfy your average desktop user.
Of course, Apple takes all of this to the next level. Really straight jacking everything you can do so that it’s a unform experience from device to device. And I hate that shit, too, even if my machine boots fast straight out of the box.
Yeah, your 15- year-old device is slow, but let’s see how slow it is with windows 11 installed
I thought Debian was as sluggish as Windows until I was forced to use the LXQt desktop environment instead of the default GNOME on an old Compaq laptop since that’s all it could handle. Turns out, GNOME looks nice but it kept my old laptop’s mid-2000s i386 CPU churning at 50% 24/7. LXQt? Barely a blip. Sure, it couldn’t run Firefox quickly, but at least its fan was silent when idling or when I was simply using the laptop as a dumb SSH client into a much more powerful remote server.
I now use LXQt on my main workstation because I don’t need fancy tilíng windows or Wayland.
I now use LXQt on my main workstation because I don’t need fancy tilíng windows or Wayland.
You can have fancy tiling windows and Wayland without Gnome! Wayland is actually pretty great for low-resource devices, I recently did a glmark benchmark on a Raspberry Pi 3B, and on the Wayland session (with the wayland version of glmark) I got about double the score of the Xorg session (with the xorg versioni of glmark). It’s just that Raspberry Pi OS’s Wayland session doesn’t use Gnome, but LabWC.
And I always configure my LXQt desktop with a tiling wm, works great and looks great IMO. Plus, the LXQt devs are working on making it fully Wayland-compatible.
Nobody’s complaints with setting Linux up are that it runs slowly.
Eehh… I put Mint on my old laptop, and it was like being stuck in a tar, even though it ran Windows 10 without problems. In the end I just switched it, to another distro, and now it works fine.
Not true. They complain because of no hardware decoding, defaults lacking GPU acceleration, they complain about KDEs file manager, Gimp, Libre Office, etc. If you had problems with Windows, maybe consider ‘skill issue’.
#2 gave it away because you’d have to royally screw something up in Arch to get KDE to lag like that lol.
It might be minimalist but it’s not unperformant out of box.
The only time i had issues with KDE when i was using a PC with 384 MB RAM (plasma 4)
I wouldnt blame that on kde
And KDE Plasma isn’t even one of the lightweight desktop environments. It’s honestly impressive how sluggish Microsoft made Windows feel.
It still had a pretty low requirement for ram… like 500Mb or so. I solved it switching, first to xfce4, which i loved and later on with i3wm whoch i believe asks like <4Mb. I may be wrong
That’s crazy. Nowadays I mainly use sway (tiling wm requiring loads of configuration, definitely not for everyone), which I thought was lightweight as well. But I just checked and it’s using a whole 500MB, wonder what it needs that for.
I feel like he’s gonna get banned for posting this on that subreddit lmao
He 100% going to be banned, I was banned with doing nothing wrong there. The mods there are bit crazy
There is exactly one(1) guy posting on that sub, and he’s here on .world too.
Also, don’t miss out on his hits such as “Linux empowers criminals”(especially the part where he captions a Stallman photo with “Oy vey!”) and “Kernel Anti-Cheats are a necessary evil”. Dude’s either a fed or a chud.
EDIT: By his own admission:
Critical of the Abrahamic dick skinning death cult, posting memes regarding that on Gab
Wait, the owner of that subreddit is the same guy here on Lemmy? You’re kidding me.
Oh, I didn’t saw it was Linuxsucks on Lemmy, I thought it was on Reddit
it’s on both
Did none of the commenters read the sixth point?
That’s why negative news sells so well.
You just have to have a good rage bait title and can write literally anything under it and the discussion will be about fantasies manifested in peoples heads based on the title.
Really looks like that haha
Most probably just read the title, saw the list and thought that’s too much reading
How is that possible? Is that a fake post, never posted to r/linuxsucks101 or has the mod there not read to paint 6 either?
Sooo many commenters missed the last line apparently. It’s wild.
They had us in the first 83%.
I’m sitting here reading these comments as the low-end Dell laptop I just picked up for software testing is booting up and updating Windows. For logistic reasons, had to pick one up today, so had the pleasure of dealing with Best Buy sales staff 🙄
From powering it up, it’s been 1.5 hours with updates and multiple restarts. Half of it was spent showing a progress indicator with a carousel slideshow of all the great AI tools I have no interest in using. Then it insisted on signing in with a Microsoft cloud account.
It’s been eons since I actually ran a fresh copy of Windows. Amazed people still put up with all this nonsense.
Seriously, dealing with Windows OOBE is like walking through a used car lot.
“Decline offer” “Decline offer” “Not right now” <hey, we need to update! See you in 30 minutes!> “Remind me in three days” “Turn off cloud backup” “Yes, I’m really sure” “Decline offer” “Share minimum telemetry” (oh, you thought you could turn that off? Lol. Lmao, even)
I don’t know how anyone finds that mess easier than linux.
The best buy sales staff are interesting because they practically make you beg for the thing you already had your mind made up about when you walked in the store.
The second issue was too blatant, I knew I was getting the old 4chan bait and switch
I know this is satire but Arch is like the worst distro for a newbie…
Not for a newbie who wants to learn. Arch is actually not difficult at all, just time consuming. If you do a manual install, you have to read about every step and make choices.
Thats how you learn your system. After install, you know exactly what files you modified and where they are if you want to make further changes.
I think it’s a beautiful system. Its not for people who just want a windows replacement though. It’s for people who wants to know their system.
People don’t realize the power that comes from actually knowing how your system works. It’s the same as learning any skill. It gives a feeling of confidence and comfort.
Literally 1984 (sorry, had to)
I’ve gotten this comment 10 times over the last year or so. :)
It depends.
in-VM test drive? By all means, yes. Have fun
as main OS? Detecting multiple leviathan class lifeforms in the region. Are you certain whatever you’re doing is worth it?
Yes it’s worth it many times over. I learned Linux on arch like 15 years ago. :) Its been paying off enormously during my career and private hobby life. Last windows I ran at home was windows 7.
Glad to know. Still, it’s not something I’d recommend to someone who hasn’t tried Linux before.
No I agree, unless they are interested in learning.
Not for a newbie who wants to learn. Arch is actually not difficult at all, just time consuming.
Yeah but that is an issue. It’s perfectly legitimate to want stuff to just work and get to what I want to do.
You kinda implying I have a character defect for “not wanting to learn” lol. Humanity actually needs an easy to use open operating system.
Also I assume most of the reasons for why an OS does the things they way it does is tech debt lol.
No I didn’t mean it that way. Ok, I’ll put it in other words. Certain people have an interest in specific things. I am interested in how Linux works, but I dont care how my car works, or how politics works. It’s just a personal instinct what we like.
And I meant that for people with my interest, arch is great. Its absolutely wrong for more than 99% of humans. But some likes it.
Humanity actually needs an easy to use open operating system.
Humanity already has Linux, and it’s taken over pretty much every computing sector.
Does it have to be “easy”? I think that’s a matter for the desktop interfaces and whoever is choosing to support them, not Linux itself.
An OS is serious business and requires a certain level of savvy from its contributors. And conversely people who are not contributors should not shape its development.
Besides, people who aren’t computer-savvy aren’t going to turn savvy just because of an easy installer. If you cater to the lowest common denominator you’d just be dragging the whole thing down.
If you don’t care about desktop adoption and the synergy effect on the overall desktop software, then no, it doesn’t have to be easy lol. All right then, keep your secrets.
I do think certain “elitist” attitudes bleed into the technical decision making. Programmers tend to see the beauty in the system architecture and it becomes it’s own value.
Be that as it may, FOSS tends to be a meritocracy and it takes some skill to contribute to it. Contributors are driven by seeking solutions to their own problems. There’s no incentive to cater to any particular user demographic. There’s a big gap between those programmers in their ivory towers and any practical application.
That gap is filled by commercial interests. And in this particular market, the PC desktop, there’s a company called Microsoft with huge resources and a vested interest in not allowing any competition. For 20 years now nobody has managed to break their stranglehold on the PC desktop. Companies like Apple and Google managed to bypass the problem by creating completely new, alternative platforms.
The elitism of a handful of nerds is the least of the issues preventing Linux on the desktop.
Yes and architects tends to see beauty in buildings, gardeners in gardens, chefs in cooking.
I just bought a laptop with windows 11 on it and I’m currently working my way through installing arch. I’ve been using Bazzite for a while on my desktop now but I still don’t really understand a lot of the systems so I’m wanting to really dig in to it and understand why things are installed and where they are and stuff.
It’s so much fun. Arch wiki is amazing.
Mint and Zorin have been flawless for me.
Installing Mint on my laptop actually fixed a longstanding issue with the speakers. They were working fine for ages on Wibdows, then some reason they just stopped working. Windows could not detect any speakers. It was to a point that I assumed hardware failure, and opened the laptop and traced the audio output to identify a blown sm cap or something, then gave up. It wasn’t until I installed Mint and it made a startup noise that I was like “wtf” because I thought it would never speak again. Turns out windows was just borked.
Installing Zorin on an old thinkcentre desktop just worked perfectly, despite my deep suspicion. I got it set up to meet my workflow perfectly in less time than I would have spent reinstalling windows and getting it dialed in just the way I like.
Is Arch “better”? Maybe, to some people. Could I make it work? It’s possible? Instead of tweaking arch to meet my requirements, could I rather spend my free time gardening or patting the cat? Absolutely.
Depends what kind of newbie. To the right kind of nerd a well-organized technical installer is not a deterrent, on the contrary.
I don’t think people realise that most Linux distros had arcane install processes not unlike Arch until around 2000, when a few of them started introducing simplified graphical installers (Corel, Caldera and Red Hat’s Anaconda I think were most popular). Debian for instance only switched to graphical in 2006 with Etch beta 3 (although tbf they did have a text-mode UI before that).
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Might just be tired but the twist at the end 100% got me lmao
I love the obligatory inclusiom of “I use Arch btw.”
Haven’t used Windows in a hot minute, do you actually have to install WLAN drivers manually there?
No, the windows updater usually grabs them just fine.
But if you do a clean install using the image from microsoft, then it’s very likely it won’t have a working wifi driver until you run updates. Which you know… it needs the internet to do.
most network and wifi chips made before the spin of windows are supported by built-in drivers.
not the case for most new hardware, especially laptops. Sure you get a cheap laptop and its probably gonna be fine but an enterprise laptop with the latest and greatest… totally a coin flip
I have had to deal with it on so many models in recent years its not even funny. (IT system admin who never uses the default install of Windows)
Isn’t this more of a “to cheap to make the device fall back to a low performance emulating-generic” type of issue?
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That pissed me so off, when i had to reinstall a bunch of notebooks at work… they didn’t even have an ethernet port, so i had to dig out some docking station from the trash pile in the server room.
It gets worse. For some reason InTune managed machines I deploy at work don’t even work HARDWIRED. It only works if you use a USB C to Ethernet adapter. No, it is not missing an Ethernet port. It just doesn’t work for absolutely no reason. I just did a remote InTune training, and had to download drivers from Dell’s website, extract the exe (lol), put it on a flash drive, and install it manually before I could even log into Windows.
When I tried to migrate to W11 a number of years ago, the wireless drivers weren’t installed automatically (plus major issues with my GPU and lots of other quirks). They’ve probably gotten better since then, but I wouldn’t know (after about three hours of trying to get basic things working, I tried loading Mint on a thumbdrive and everything worked out of the box, including things like function keys and adjustable keyboard backlighting–I never went back).
There are some cheap wifi cards that have sketchy drivers that aren’t automatically installed, and my gigabyte motherboard only came with drivers for Windows 11 for its on-board WiFi, so while windows usually gets the drivers fine there are not-even-that-obscure situations where it just absolutely does not.
When I tried to install Windows 10 2 years ago on my mini PC it tried to install wifi drivers but failed. Wifi only worked after manually downloading and installing the driver. Various Linux distros were plug and play and wifi worked out of the box.
‘works on my machine’ -one of the most ignorant arguments.
The same model Motherboards can have different sound, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth chips.
You’re trusting unsigned, reverse engineered, and amateur developed drivers in ring 0 which can possibly damage your hardware and firmware.
It’s not something to casually recommend people do.
You’re trusting unsigned, reverse engineered, and amateur developed drivers in ring 0
Up until 2025 most of the software for controlling your periphery like mice and RGB controllers used a driver called WinRing0 which had been discontinued for years. Its author even actively discouraged people from using it, but due to convenience and cost cutting it was bundled with software left and right.
I rather trust a Linux kernel developer developing a WiFi driver than some shady manufacturer selling cheap mice and bundling it with closed-source software that never gets an update.
If you don’t have an Ethernet connection, fairly regularly
It’s at least better than the Vista days where it didn’t even have an Ethernet driver consistently, and you had to download your Ethernet driver from another computer 🤷♂️
Not in 11 that i’ve seen but drivers used to be ridiculous on windows. The funny thing is it was even worse on linux for a hot minute. I remember borking my nic multiple times on slackware 3 and having to hoof it to my friend’s house to download a driver way back in olden times. I learned a fuckload about linux and networking during those years breaking things.
I definitely remember the times when wlan was a PITA on Linux : )
Oh, what was that thing called, ndiswrapper or similar, where you downloaded the windows versions of the drivers and then wrapped them up and hoped they worked, and good luck with power saving or resume from sleep.
Don’t get me wrong; amazing that it worked even as well as it did, but glad we’ve got native drivers now. A small step forward every day and soon you’ll have gone a long way.
I can use most any operating system. I can even enjoy most of them. Understand the “why” of it and even Apple has amazing answers to “we solved X by doing Y.”
Then there’s windows. It does things differently than everyone else, which does have merit in theory. But if you have had decades to prove your point and still haven’t….maybe you’re just fucking wrong.
" Here sweetie. Play with this nice green round toy and don’t worry anymore. "
