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Imagine having Windows installed in 2024. /s
Most people are tech illiterate. Ask them anything but to use a pre installed system or pop in a CD that was given to them (No they can’t burn one themselves) and they’ll fail
With all the UI changes on every version in the last few years that simply isn’t true. Windows is becoming harder and harder to use even if you know what you are doing, much less if you don’t know half the computer related terminology.
Actually, not really. It’s becoming more like what a smart device would look/feel, which is what most people are accustomed to anyway by now. Sure, options and settings get removed left and right, but that is not a concern for your every day Joe. They just need something to do their taxes in or watch a movie or play a few dumb clips on YT, that’s it. Oh and of course it comes preinstalled with the computer, so they can do all that out of the box, great!
You ask any person that uses MS Office whether they like the pre-2007 menu layout (1997-2003) of Office or the new (post-2007) menu layout, you’ll always get the same answer, the post-2007 is better. Why? I really have no idea, but they say it’s better. Maybe it’s the thing with the icon buttons, or just having a ribbon with the most used tools, IDK. My point is, LibreOffice uses the pre-2007 classical layout. For most people, this is confusing. I find it simple and elegant, the way a GUI text/spreadsheet editor should look and feel. But, than again, I’m with computers since I was a kid, so drop down menus are not a new thing for me. People rarely use any menu that’s not a full screen one (or at least one that’s big enough to take away at least half the screen). Why? IDK, but I think smart devices are to blame for that.
options and settings get removed left and right,
That is bad but what bothers me more is that they get moved every time they publish a new version and for no real reason considering the average person won’t access them anyway.
They want even those power users that are used to tweaking the OS to not tweak the OS and just get used to the new defaults (whatever they might be). A perfect example being no thin taskbar in Win11. Why? IDK, you tell me 🤷. Not everyone has a FullHD monitor (I don’t), but hey, maybe you need to buy a new one 😒. Consumerism maybe behind this, but I can’t be certain.
In any case, most users will eventually get accustomed to the new defaults. Very few users will say “f this” and switch to another OS and they don’t actually care about those users, cuz they would have switched eventually anyway (if it wasn’t for this, some other thing most probably).
Unfortunately, Windows becoming better and better. You can literally run Linux while running Windows (that’s why coders still use Windows) and now you can even remove pre installed bloatware. Can you imagine? They even copy KDE look!
I can’t imagine walking around and just assuming everything is a magic black box and not have the slightest curiosity about how something works.
Believe it or not, not everyone is intersted in tech. Most people just live out their lives oblivious to how stuff works.
Like me for example, I have almost 0 interest in medicine. The human body is not exactly a black box to me, but I don’t usually remember deseases names and stuff like that, even though some people remember all those things without putting too much effort into it.
Medical stuff is not comparable to OS that you use on a daily basis. Everything just boils down that Windows was pre installed on such a huge amount of machines that “you have to be tech savvy” or whatever to use Linux. And the fact that no one wants to install anything that wasn’t installed the first time, makes it that much harder to switch to Linux. But I believe that we all are slowly spreading the word of Linux more and more with each year. We definitely will have a year of Linux for sure (eventually).
Everything just boils down that Windows was pre installed on such a huge amount of machines that “you have to be tech savvy” or whatever to use Linux.
Yes, I would agree that having Windows preinstalled on almost every brand name PC/laptop there is out there is the main reason why things are what they are.
But, I’d also argue that, from your everyday user’s stand point, Windows is a lot easier to get office work done. Everything is pretty much GUI based, there is no terminal in Windows (cmd and PowerShell are not the terminal, you can’t do everything you can in a GUI in the cmd or in PowerShell, and vice versa, so it’s not the same), so from a regular user’s perspective, things are simpler.
And the fact that no one wants to install anything that wasn’t installed the first time, makes it that much harder to switch to Linux.
Why bother changing something that works and gets the job done 🤷… plus, they gotta learn new things if they did that, why make their lives harder.
Not everyone cares about libre software… or even know it exists.
But I believe that we all are slowly spreading the word of Linux more and more with each year. We definitely will have a year of Linux for sure (eventually).
If this does happen, this won’t be within a year, it will be within several years (or a decade).
But, I do agree that there are changes in a positive direction. Most software products (slosed source ones) now have at least a Debian/Ubuntu .deb package (which wasn’t the case 10 years ago, which wasn’t that long ago) and even do customer support for Linux (but only limited to that particular flavor of Linux which they provide the packages for… not an ideal scenario, but it’s not bad either).
So, yeah, I’m optimistic, but not too much. It might eventually happen, but not in the near future IMO.
Windows is a lot easier to get office work done. Everything is pretty much GUI based
No, most popular Linux distros have every GUI app you need to do your office work. What do you need? Office suite, file manager and browser? Check, check, check. Moreover, you don’t have any office preinstalled on Windows and you even have to buy it (and the OS itself), or create a Microsoft account and use online, feature- and Internet-limited version. (With something like Fedora or Ubuntu you can run the live version from RAM from a USB drive, get done with your work, and you don’t even have to install the OS, let alone buy it.)
Why bother changing something that works and gets the job done 🤷… plus, they gotta learn new things if they did that, why make their lives harder.
The point is that it would work the other way around, if Linux was mainstream (I’m already wet) and Windows was in the minority.
Not everyone cares about libre software… or even know it exists.
Yes.
If this does happen, this won’t be within a year, it will be within several years (or a decade).
We can only dream if this will happen within a year. But decades already have passed and look where Linux is at: dominating server market share, all the IoT devices, government related stuff, developers, free-believers, FOSS enjoyers. We have SteamOS, Steamdeck, other handheld devices that are Linux-based, Proton, Lutris, Wine and other stuff. We have a lot of progress already. Desktop market share year by year does show that Linux and alike take a bigger and bigger cut. Withing a decade, everything will probably run on RISC-V architecture (something already does) and Linux will probably only become stronger and its community and market share will only grow.
Most software products […] now have at least a Debian/Ubuntu .deb package
Well, maybe not most, but definitely noticeable, if you search for/use it. I was very surprised to see Cisco Packet Tracer being available in a native .deb package (surprisingly, no one has created a comparable FOSS alternative thus far).
limited to that particular flavor of Linux which they provide the packages for
Side note. You don’t always need the support, and the packages themselves can and do become available on other platforms. AUR and Nix repositories are the largest ones that have community-created packages that only available on Ubuntu or Fedora, etc.
So, yeah, I’m optimistic, but not too much. It might eventually happen, but not in the near future IMO.
I’m sure the year of Linux will happen before I die, or at least the next generation after me will have it. The progress is really huge and kinda becomes faster with every few years.
No, most popular Linux distros have every GUI app you need to do your office work. What do you need? Office suite, file manager and browser? Check, check, check. Moreover, you don’t have any office preinstalled on Windows and you even have to buy it (and the OS itself), or create a Microsoft account and use online, feature- and Internet-limited version.
Yes, but have you looked at how LibreOffice looks? It looks like MS Office 1997-2003. Personally, I love that, but ask any MS Office user out there that’s not into tech and just wants to get the job done, you’ll always get the same answer, MS Office post 2007 with the ribbon interface is a lot better. People are used to that. If they’d have to chose between spending a little money and learning something new, guess what, they choose spending a little money. I know, it baffles me as well, but numbers don’t lie.
And they usually see the whole MS account tied with office stuff thing as a feature, not as a drawback. Sure, they don’t get to use all the tools that the sute can offer, but who needs calcs in spreadsheets or math equations in a text editor anyway, that’s for geeks 😒.
Basically, if they can write a few words and insert an image here and there, that’s more than enough for most people’s needs. Sure, they pay for that, which they can get for free, but you don’t see LibreOffice ads in Windows, do you 🤷.
Side note. You don’t always need the support, and the packages themselves can and do become available on other platforms. AUR and Nix repositories are the largest ones that have community-created packages that only available on Ubuntu or Fedora, etc.
Thay is what I actually meant, we kinda troubleshoot our own packages, even if they’re repackaged from a closed source deb/rpm. If the dependencies are there and compiled against whatever is needed for the package to run, I don’t really see a reason not to offer support for other distros, or at least make a subforum or whatever for those that want to repackage stuff for other distros, so they can at least gather in one place and discuss issues regarding repackaging, with some guidelines> from the support staff of the product. But unfortunatelly, that’s rarely the case, that was my point.
I thought linux dominating server space was natural, after downfall of unix. Doesn’t it?
Except for the fact, that you do that to plenty of other disciplines of life. It is simply that some people need a computer to work, they don’t need one as a hobby. They don’t want to “learn a new thing” they want their machine to output some calculations in excel. Same as you don’t learn woodworking when ordering a table from Ikea, or learning medicine when going to a checkup.
Same as you don’t learn woodworking when ordering a table from Ikea, or learning medicine when going to a checkup.
Maybe I’m different than most, but I DO wonder how that table is made, and I do try to educate myself on how the medicines I take actually work. There’s been times I’ve wasted almost an entire day binging Wikipedia.
I’m not saying I have in depth knowledge of fields outside my own, but I do make an attempt. Like, I’m not a gearhead at all, and I only care about cars being able to take me to work and back. But I do know how internal combustion works, and I have a general understanding of the components of an engine.
You’re an inqusitive mind (so am I) and there is nothing wrong with that.
But, do understand that most people aren’t. Either because they didn’t have proper guidance when they were young or just have no interest in involving themselves in new things, doesn’t really matter, the fact is that, yes, most people don’t really care how stuff works.
You might surround yourself with people that are like you, so you don’t see the other ones. Trust me when I say this, most people are not like you. I’d say about 5 to 10% of people are like you, that’s it.
A day on wikipedia doesn’t get you “installed linux and is actively using it at work” level of knowledge. For cars, the better analogy would be “I can replace the transmission in my car”. Everyone knows how “computers work”. Not a lot of people know how to install a different OS.
Exactly, good analogy 👍.
Anyone who wants to install a different OS on a regular desktop is able to do it quite easily, if they can read instructions on a website and an hour or two. It’s similar to swapping tires, which is not difficult but it’s important to read up/get shown how to do it.
But maybe I overestimate the difficulty of replacing the transmission.
I don’t think I really do. I always want to be able to fix all of the things I own so I always like to understand how they work. I don’t always actually end up learning enough about them but it’s not from lack of curiosity
The same thing might apply to people that just don’t know how to install another OS.
I’ll take my wife as an example, she knows how to work on a computer (Windows) in her sleep. Spreadsheets, documents, media, you name it. But, does she know how to work the command line? Absolutely not. If her Windows license is about to expire, she calls me. Her files get mangled up, she calls me. It’s not her job to know these things, it’s mine, she’s a social worker, I work in IT.
Imagine having a CD in 2024 /s
Until I saw the /s I felt extremely old
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Yeah, it’s a DVD now, right?
… Right?
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Hell, I still burn stuff to DVDs 🤷.
No, that’s ChromeOS. Windows still assumes some knowledge that you may take for granted, but someone who’s never used a computer before might not know.
Not gonna lie I have no fucking clue what ChromeOS is
It’s the OS on Chromebooks
Not gonna lie I didn’t know Chromebooks were a thing up until now, let alone ever assume they’d have their own OS.
thank you
I’m a little surprised considering their aggressive as campaigns, the fact they’ve existed for over 10 years and that their market share is higher than the mac’s
It’s called not keeping up with technology in general since a decade ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Seriously when I tell people I’m tech illiterate I mean it. I can’t tell ya what all the different devices mean and I got introduced to Linux because I once had to recover data from my broken Windows computer 5-6 years ago and my pal gave me a disk. That was Ubuntu of all things too!
I’m basically an old grandma lmaoo
Personally I’m not tech illiterate; I’m just too lazy to reboot every time I want to hop on the decks and do some DJing or music production. Or play one of the few games that won’t run on Linux. Or watch something in HDR.
I wish there was a way to instantly jump back and forth between OSes with a key combo, without having to resort to any sort of VM fuckery. Like how for a brief moment in the 90s you could buy an expansion card for your Mac that was an entire Windows PC on a single board. You do exactly what I described: instantly go back and forth between Mac and PC without having to close any programs. We should find a way to make that a thing again.
Regarding DJing, there is support now for quite a few MIDI DJ controllers in Linux, you should look and see if yours is supported 😉.
Doubtful. It hasn’t received neither a driver nor a firmware update since 2015, and new DJ hardware is expensive, so…
Ummm… those are exactly the kind of devices that actually DO work in Linux 😂. Legacy hardware support is one of the things that Linux is know for.
Even if it never worked in Linux before? I’ll have to check it out. It would be nice to be able to use the latest version of Serato DJ without having to buy new hardware. (SDJ works in WINE, right? Is WINE even still a thing or have we evolved beyond that?)
Serato DJ should work in Wine fine. Wine is more active as a project now than it ever was, thanks to Valve’s Proton, which is bascially a Wine fork aimed at gaming on Linux through Steam. But, they push changes upstream (the Wine project), so Wine is really going fast forward now, they’re up to version 8.something now, which is a big jump, considering it was at version 5 only a few years ago and that the project has been around for about 2 decades.
Regarding DJ controllers and Wine… that might be a bit tricky, but it’s worth a shot 🤷. Might require some manual library overrides or setups, but if the controller is supported in Linux (works fine with, let’s say, Mixxx or Transitions DJ), it should be able to work in Wine as well.
The easy solution for that is a kvm switch. You have two pcs, and switch between them with a button press, keeping the same mouse, keyboard and monitor.
Best use is for personal PC and work laptop, but if you specifically want to switch between linux and windows pcs, then it should be fine if you use that.
Yeah but I don’t want two PCs. The PC room gets hot enough as-is. I have to turn off the heat when doing a resource-intensive task to keep the room from heating up to 80°F! In January!
Not to mention the costs. Upfront and the increased power bill. No way am I buying a second 4090 and having one PC using up 150w+ sitting idle while I’m using the other one. Out of my budget.
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Because maybe I want to game on multiple OSes?
This argument is getting out of control. All I want is a some technology to come around that lets me switch between OSes instantly without rebooting or building a second PC. That was my original point. We’re going off on a tangent, here.
The point is that this is Linux community and majority understand that there is basically no reason in using Windows. But there are proprietary exceptions like games and stuff. I don’t have Windows on my machine for years and I’m perfectly fine without it.
I’m not talking about “most people”, because they all have been brainwashed by Microsoft and will refuse in adopting anything different than Windows. It comes pre installed basically everywhere.
You don’t sound so bad for pushing 120!
Skill issue. Can’t click a Windows entry if you don’t have one!
Me with only linux installed: not a problem i face, no
Yesss, Linux gang for the win!
Can’t click on Windows, if have no Windows 😏
Ah old days… I used to boot into Windows 10 just for gaming but when Valve’s Proton matured to the point that all my games could work on Linux I very happily nuked it out of existence. But yeah if someone plays Fortnite or needs Adobe products then you still can’t do much unfortunately.
Only problem is gamepass
I only played via Steam so I wouldn’t know. I hear it’s a good deal, but I’ve made it a point to not accept such good deals from BigTech. Have gotten screwed over too many times. Remember when Google Photos allowed unlimited storage?
Then piracy it will be. For now it’s more convenient than piracy.
I don’t do either, but I still need Windows. Some software just needs native communication with hardware devices and wine is still not there yet.
Just hold the power button until it gets quiet.
… shush, don’t fight it, it will be over soon.
I always imagine this when hard rebooting any device
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Oh yeah, deleting partition tables always felt a bit like (mini) scorched earth past-denying genocide. Gone but not forgotten. But also mostly forgotten. Nevertheless you legacy will live onwards through volume labels that I always use.
I know, I know… we were just not meant to be, sorry…
It could be installing updates
You are right, but I always risk it (restore points work most of the time anyway).
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Unless u have a ntfs shared drive which gets locked by windows if u don’t restart…
One of the main reasons why I let ot boot all the way. If nothing else, it’ll mark the partition as dirty 😒. Sure, I can
sudo mountmy way into it, but I really have no idea if everything’s OK with it. So, I have to reboot, boot into Windows, mark the partition for a consistency check, reboot, boot into Windows again so it could do the check, then reboot again and (finally!) boot into Linux 😒… I mean, just let it boot all the way the first time, it’ll be over rather quickly.deleted by creator
Really? I think it shows the files as locked, but you can actually do whatever in root 🤔.
In either case, it’s just more painless to actually let it boot all the way than to interrupt the boot process.
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lol 🤣. Good info though 👍, I will have it in mind.
Oh yeah, I’ve had that happen to me (only the one time, like a decade ago), once I realized what gives I solved it easily with GParted ‘repair’ or something like that (iirc?).
Edit: ohh, I think it was a (full distro) live-boot CD that I used.
I haven’t booted into my windows 10 drive in months, I fear the amount of updates it will force apon me if I accidentally do.
I was in that situation a while ago, so I booted in to try and keep it up to date. Well, in reality I booted into recovery mode as it decided to die. Anyway I’m now duel booting arch and tumbleweed
At that point I’d just get rid of Windows entirely. I used to have it on my laptop, and the updates it installed after booting for the first time in months broke networking. I never used that install so I decided to use the storage space for more sensible things.
Use Windows Update Blocker to block them.
Windows is installing update 2 of 48…
Yeah, that was back in the WinVista/7/8/8.1 days, it doesn’t show the number of updates any more. Plus, a lot of the updates are cumulative, they abandoned their earlier model.
And, I have to admit, the update process is a lot faster now and a lot less error prone.
it doesn’t show the number of updates
Huh didn’t think of that.
Admittedly, when you run apt-update on a freshly installed system, you get a whole lot more updates. But at least they finish in a a few seconds, compared to Windows’s somewhere between now and the end of time. Who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The are no forced updates ever, no forced restarts, and by golly no multiple restarts.
Admittedly, good point. I completely forgot by now how annoying the experience was :)
I’m not into programming, and I’m an LGBTQIA Ally. Just genuinely curious. Are 90% of Linux users really young white femboys with anime body pillows? Or is Lemmy just a heavily skewed demographic?
It’s mostly just a stereotype. I know plenty of young white femboys who use Windows, and I’m a Linux user who is young and white but definitely not a femboy. I would say 90% of Linux users probably know how to program though.
Or at least are very friendly with the terminal and know all sorts of scripting languages… which is not that far from programming either.
I think only 60% linux users know how to program
It’s just Lemmy!
these comments always remind me how small the amount of my peers here probably is. i wonder how many other lemmy users have cooked crack
✌️… not proud of it though… and it was heroin, not crack.
Not so young anymore (🥲), not a femboy and no body pillows here. Been using Linux for almost 20 years now. More than 10 exclusivly Linux.
The young, single, femboys just has more time to creat more memes.
Dual booters are fem-boys with anime body pillows.
Those brave enough to take the full plunge and single boot Linux are fem-men with anime body pillows.
No… The true Linux users are white, mid-40 men who only use Arch Linux on an old Thinkpad and who will comment “I use Arch BTW” under a video with a random dog eating a ball just to prove that the dog should use Arch as well, because it is objectively better than anything else.
Yeah, that’s what I said. Fem-men with anime body pillows.
I use Arch BTW
You just made my day better, I had to laugh. Thank you ;)
To extend your statistical research I’m a GNU/LINUX. user, i have never watched an anime, I’m white, extremely racist and a lgbtqia hater.
My impression of linuxmemes (what’s the lemmy word for subreddit?) is mostly that it feels like the regular posters don’t use Linux. Either that, or it is automated and reposting stuff from 10-20 years ago that isn’t very accurate or relevant.
We call the comms, short for communities 😉.
Heavily skewed demographic IMO. LGBTQ+ supportive liberals is what makes most of it, but I would bet that there are republican IT workers out there (or rightists, in general, if not from the US) or users that maybe like most of what the right has to offer, just don’t agree with everything all the way, like let’s say libre software.
And I stole the meme, I wouldn’t have used that image for the meme, I’m in no way into anime 😂. Sure, Akira and legendary stuff like that, but that’s just a really good movie TBH, it doesn’t matter if it’s anime or not.
LGBT people are over-represented in IT, as it is less judgemental of such things compared to many other professions. Also, people who had to hide their identity, or question it, or read more about such hard to access topics, probably learned how to use the internet, and may have even developed an interest in fields like privacy and digital equality.
As for anime, Japan (and China, Korea etc.) are major electronics manufacturers and designers, so their culture has influenced the internet, and particularly the more nerdy parts of it.
But there are plenty of people with very different political views in the Linux community, from RMS’s infocommunism to Eric Raymond’s right-libertarianism.
How?
No dual boot here, Windows is confined to a VM. Even in the ancient times I had dual boot, last century, Linux was always the default.
That is all good and fine, unless you need it to interact with hardware, which I do.
Then still you can set Linux as default. Lilo had an option to reboot with an option to set a 1 time default. (that was neat) On dual boot hardware, I always set the one I want to default boot, which is in my case always Linux. (must still have a dual boot laptop somewhere)
Linux is my first option, I just need to have a second (Windows). And grub also has the boot once thing, but it doesn’t work with BTRFS 🤷.
I don’t trust btrfs. Software that relies on not breaking is b0rken in my opinion. (Unless they finally fixed that)
Yeah, it doesn’t break any more. Rock solid the past few years, not a single problem.
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People are still using GRUB to dual boot? It’s not 2010 anymore. systemd-boot is the objectively superior choice.
I just unplug the exposed SATA cable from one ssd and plug it into the other SSD. I am the bootloader
Is systemd-boot a bootloader?
It’s a boot manager, technically.
How does it compare to refind?
Good for people that use systemd… what about the rest of us…
All six of you Luddites? You figure it out.
You should really take a closer look at the Void user base…
Loud doesn’t mean numerous. Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, Fedora, Arch, and Manjaro take up almost all of the desktop install market.
Yeah, and it’s a big market… all 6% of it.
My point was, systemd is not the only init system, there are others. Just because it’s used by over 90% of the Linux distros out there, doesn’t mean it’s the only one, thus offering a solution that is tied to systemd is not exactly a solution. Grub already has it figured out, why complicate things further.
That just doesn’t happen to me.
I use rEFInd.
What Windows? I got Debian, and some shit that tests my memory.
Your memory or your computer’s memory? Huge difference.
“I forgot”
Doesn’t seem to work…
you don’t have it default to linux…?
I do, but I sometimes need Windows and I get confused when rebooting “was I supposed to use Windows or Linux now 🤔”.
lol happens to me too ><
The struggle is real 😂.
