What do you think?
Not everyone has a voice in their head. Do you have a cat? Cats have thoughts. Unfortunately that thought is sometimes, “eff you, human!”
What do you mean about “not everyone has a voice in their head”? I have one… I would like to research more about this topic.
What do you mean about “not everyone has a voice in their head”?
Well, what do you think it means?
I believe it would be interesting to talk about this with someone wo inner monologue.
I do not have an internal monologue.
This has been at least discussed/studied before but I don’t know if there has been any sort of formal poll to find a rate between those that do and those that don’t.
There are some studies. I don’t remember the specifics but it’s something like 50/50 on hearing and seeing and about 20 percent do neither. I’m sure those numbers are off, but that’s vaguely what i remember reading.
What do you mean by seeing? Like they don’t see images in their mind?
We don’t.
Some people do. Many of us don’t.
I have to ask - in what way do you think about stuff? Especially whem you need to be mindful of a process or remember something?
I still think in words and images, but there is no voice.
Something else that came up in previous discussions. I remember emotional response more than specific things. For example, my wife can remember what we wore, what we ate, and other specifics, of a date we had years ago. I barely remember even the location, but I can easily recall that I was happy about the date, but there was some mild frustration early on, something about the restaurant, but then feeling better about it later.
I say this and my wife says, “Oh yeah, we were annoyed because we had reservations but still had to wait 20 minutes, but then we were given an appetizer.”
However, before my comments, she couldn’t recall if we liked the place or not.
I’ll remember if I liked someone, but not why or even their name.
Mine is just chunks of info or ideas. My coworkers think this is why i talk a lot unfiltered- because i don’t hear how it will sound it in my head before it comes out of my mouth. There’s a little test online that was going around for awhile where you try to visualize a red star and grade it 1-5.
I am curious how many people don’t have an inner monologue, but there are a few articles on the subject. Here’s one at random.>
My cognition is mixed. Verbal inner monologue is going most of the time when I’m just thinking about routine stuff. But if I’m “in the flow zone” working on a project or playing music or something like that, the little “voice in my head” vanishes completely and that’s when I’m the happiest. I suspect most people can relate to those modes.
That’s relatable to me at least. And often music is playing my my head in the place of my inner voice.
Agreed, now that I think about it. It’s definitely better to be in the zone. If I’m monologuing I think it might signify that I’m having trouble with something, but I don’t necessarily enjoy being that aware of my own self.
Thx for the info…
There are also people who are unable to see images in their mind. In case you want to go further down the rabbit hole.
Do you know if it’s some kind of mental illness? I mean some kind of human abnormality, or do you believe there are a lot of people like that?
My theory is that there’s no such thing as neurotypical.
Neurotypical is just the statistical average of all the different ways we’re fucked in the head.
i.e. Half have anxiety, the other half have depression and we just assume normal is somewhere in the middle.
We function just fine. Seeing images or hearing voices in your mind is not required for any task I’m aware of.
My MIL and to some extent my husband are like that. It was painful discussing design plans with them when we reno’d our kitchen. I just started doing mood boards so they could see what I had in my head that I wanted it to look like.
I’m terrible at decorating!! After 20+ years in my house most of my walls have pictures that are sentimental to me but not visually connected in any way.
There are a lot of us.
Many of us don’t. Many of us also don’t see images in our minds.
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Thoughts, yes. Please keep in mind that thoughts are not necessarily in the form of a voice, even in humans.
Not sure about thoughts, but cats are interesting in their level of committment to their intent when they “decide” they want to do something. They are laser-focused and its hard to actually meaningfully distract them from the execution once the order’s been placed haha.
Watch them sometime. Cat.exe are very deiberate little critters. It reminds me of when you hit the share sheet on iOS but you change your mind and try desperately to navigate away from it popping up or hoping you can cancel out the instruction but nope. Its coming
When my cat is staring me in my eyes I swear he’s trying to mind control me.
Cat holding paw out towards op
You will give me extra food!
Not trying, doing.
That’s just his taxoplasma communicating with your taxoplasma. Nothing to worry about.
They don’t have language, so they can’t have the internal dialogue.
But can they have imagination? Since many animals have dreams, then why not?
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My dog’s would often woof and move their paws on their dreams.
I would say that animals have thoughts, yes. But I don’t think that they have an inner monologue or voice.
You could probably ask someone who has no inner voice. I think animals might be more similar to that.
No, but that is because they don’t have language.
That said, plenty of humans do not have a voiced internal experience. The lack of language does not imply a lack of cognition. I would expect that the brain of a closely related organism, say a chimp, would have many similar experiences generated by the same stimuli. Would they experience green like I experience green? I can’t even say that about a person sitting next to me, but they probably have an equivalent experience.
That said, if we had a way of communicating could we reach agreed terms? I can do that with my cat, so I would think he has an understanding of me and my behaviours along with what tends to happen when I do certain things like clap then shake my hands at the end of a treat session. He knows there are no more treats, he associates that with my hands clapping and shaking, so we communicate. Does he have a voice in his head describing it? Probably not. Does he have Meows? Again, probably not, but he would have a sense and memories of previous times.
Does he have Meows?
That’s such a cute and funny thing to imagine lol. An inner meowologue
Some animals do have language and animals that are around people a lot likely have an inner voice that is their owner’s voice.
They likely don’t plan using this voice, the way people do. But it certainly influences their behavior.
A dog that’s been yelled at for getting in the garbage might hear a no in their head even if their owners at work.
This is something I’ve always been highly skeptical of. As a somewhat experienced meditator, I’m hyper-aware of the constant flood of self-talk happening in my head, but I don’t remember paying particular attention to it before I started practicing. It has always been there, but until then, I hadn’t paid any special attention to it. Whenever this subject comes up with people who don’t meditate, they often seem to live under the illusion that, except for intentional thoughts, their mind is more or less silent the rest of the time. I’d argue that 99.9% of people couldn’t sit for 20 seconds without letting their mind wander, even if their life depended on it. Even I couldn’t, despite my experience in meditation.
That’s why I think that when people are asked whether they have this inner voice or not, some say no because they’re not aware of it. Not having it would effectively be synonymous with being enlightened.
I have internal voice sometimes but not others. In some things my cognition is far more verbal, working through something like a monologue or conversation. Other times I may have more of a mental image of something, sometimes more in real space and sometimes completely disconnected from real space. Sometimes it is much more abstract with sensations and emotions with very little in terms of concrete metaphores.
Also I can have racing thoughts without it being language. I also have impacts on those racing thoughts from taking Ritalin (ADHD medication) and it is not just the word thoughts but also the flow of other types of cognition.
Also an experienced meditator.
Not everyone thinks in words. Some people think in pictures. Or in other sense consciousnesses. As an experienced cook, I can think in taste and smell without any auditory component of ‘what should I put in this dish’. For example.
As for word thinking, passive thoughts are more auditory and active thoughts more somatic (throat and jaw muscles will move). These can be decoupled from the sense of I making, especially passive thoughts.
At which point you get thoughts think themselves, to quote Jack Kornfield. A sort of bubbling up of passive thoughts in voices that aren’t mine.
It’s likely animals that live close to people experience this. The owners voice yelling no when they do something the owner wouldn’t like, even if the owner isn’t around.
Anyway, trying to not think can be like holding your breath. I can do that for awhile. But it’s not right effort. Letting thoughts settle, like sand in a glass of water. And letting go of the sense of I making. The mind will rest quite naturally. That’s calm abiding.
In other words, it’s attachment to the inner voice that’s making it difficult for you to imagine that a lot of people think in pictures or other ways. And noticing this sense of attachment in your practice with the intention of letting it go, might deepen your insight into yourself and what others may or may not experience.
Edit: this listening meditation is helpful for me in letting go of attachment to the inner voice. As is annapanasati, especially the third tetrad.
Animals have thoughts, that is clear as day.
Inner Monolog? In a way. But not like us because they don’t speak English motherfucker.
But it’s possible to have thoughs if you don’t have inner monologue?
Bro, not even all people have an inner monologue. There are many different modes to process thoughts.
Yes. A thought can be a picture.
And I don’t say that they don’t have inner Monolog. It wouldn’t be like ours because that depends on the language we use.
A dogs inner Monolog would be barking I guess.
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Probably not expressed as a voice, but definitely thinking.
One of our cats would regularly get “that look” on her face and we’d tell her “Lorelei! Stop thinking evil thoughts!” then she’d go on a tear. Clearly plotting what she was going to do.
Have you ever been close to a cat? I cant believe they can be wacky like this without some sort of inner monologue and intention.
My cat has thoughts. They’re usually “today I feel like biting my owner because it’s a load of fun”
This video perfectly describes my cat… except the actual fur color. Because he’s a snowshoe, not… whatever kind of cat species is in this video.
I think so. I have parrots who are at a 4 year old human’s intelligence level. They do things they know they shouldn’t and wait for me to turn my back, it’s like they know they shouldn’t but have an intrusive thought and act on it. Of course, once I say “excuse me…” With the dad tone, they fly to their cages and pretend they did nothing. To me that takes thought and reasoning, desire, planning, action, etc. On their part.
Humans are animals.
True though that may be, there’s no benefit to mentioning that in this situation.
I was making the point on the notion that we might be alone in that vs animals. If you don’t distinguish man from other animals, why would you assume that they couldn’t?
I think that it’s on a sliding scale. Some animals clearly have some kind of inner thought process, and clearly have their own personalities. Others not as much. I know that with cats, for instance, there are tools you can use that allow cats to communicate certain concepts to people, stings of buttons that are each linked to a discrete word. Cats can learn to string button presses together to ‘say’ things to their keepers. (Apparently the most common thing they ask for is clean water, so clean your cat’s water daily.) That may not be evidence of “thought” in the way that you’re thinking about it, but there’s clearly some form of cognition going on there.
My cat understands a “now” “later” type of situation and strings actions with it. For instance “now play later food”.
Edit: I taught him buttons and those are some of the choices
clean water
I used to have a cat who did this. He would lead me to the bathroom, jump into the tub, and then wait patiently until I turned on the bath faucet – just a trickle!
Wait, you have a little voice in your head??
Not sure if meta or real.
Yeah you know like the devil and the angel of the cartoons…
I’m sure it depends on the animal. In fact humans think in at least two inner voices.
The ear consciousness is receptive, and the speech consciousness is active.
What I mean by this is a dog or another animal that spends a lot of time with people likely has a passive inner voice of their owner. A dog might hear an owner yell no when they go to do something the owner doesn’t like, even if their owner isn’t around.
Animals that are capable of speech such as a parrot, will likely have an active speech consciousness. Which is more somatic in tone.
For example, when I am in active speech consciousness I can feel my jaw and tongue muscles move. When in passive listening consciousness, my ears might move or strain to try to hear the inner speech.
With practice these somatic sensations can be decoupled from their internal sense consciousnesses. Which tends to help them quiet down and deepen meditation.
This is one of my favorite practices that’s accessible for people who don’t really meditate. The guided meditation is the first fifteen minutes of the video, so you don’t have to listen for the whole hour to get an inkling of what I’m pointing at.
