The six-year-old student who shot his teacher in the US earlier this year, boasted about the incident saying “I shot [her] dead”, unsealed court documents show.
While being restrained after the shooting at a Virginia school, the boy is said to have admitted “I did it”, adding “I got my mom’s gun last night”.
His teacher, Abigail “Abby” Zwerner - who survived - filed a $40m (£31.4m) lawsuit earlier this year.
The boy has not been charged.
The boy’s mother, however, Deja Taylor, has been charged with felony child neglect and misdemeanour recklessly leaving a loaded firearm as to endanger a child.
In Ms Zwerner’s lawsuit, filed in April, she accuses school officials of gross negligence for ignoring warning signs and argues the defendants knew the child "had a history of random violence
The documents also mention another incident with the same student while he was in kindergarten. A retired teacher told police he started “choking her to the point she could not breathe”.
This boy choked someone and shot someone else before turning 7. Maybe a psychiatric hospital should be his home.
A lot of focus is being justifiably placed on the mom, but the kid’s actions very closely mirror allegations against his father, Malik Ellison.
The [father’s girlfriend] said she backed away to create space, but Ellison followed her, pushed her onto the bed, put his hand around her neck, and threatened to kill her, according to court records.
That attack wasn’t the only time the woman claimed Ellison was violent toward her, court records show. The woman called Newport News police again on Sept. 21, 2021 and told investigators that Ellison held a gun to her head and threatened to kill her, according to court records.
Fucking seriously… This kid has future murderer written all over him… I get that your brain isn’t fully developed yet, but I don’t think kids like him go from “literally a psychopath” to “normal adult”
A normal kid might do something crazy in a fit of rage or emotion, but then regret what they did when they see the fallout from it. This little psycho boasted about it…
but I don’t think kids like him go from “literally a psychopath” to “normal adult”
Not with that attitude they don’t. Do you really think a 6 year old is beyond help?
They need to be removed from the parents, given proper psychiatric help and support, and placed with a loving family that can help them manage whatever issues they have.
I have a feeling that won’t happen though and part of the reason for this is because people believe that small children cannot be helped.Do you really think a 6 year old is beyond help?
The real question here is “are you willing to bet someone’s life on it?”
You’re betting someone’s life on it no matter what.
I’m not willing to give up on someone, especially a child, just because of what might happen.Definitely betting one life vs. maybe betting several. It’s a version of the trolley problem. There isn’t a right answer, unfortunately - though I personally would move the kid to professional full time psychiatric care in a “hope for the best, plan for the worst” sort of thing. Especially since I don’t think kids are inherently more valuable than adults.
I mean, we have 12 years to find out? The kid needs help and care.
There are 6 year olds that are psychopaths and this is likely one of them.
The worst part is treatment is not a guarantee they can be integrated into society.
It’s tragic for everyone involved but it is true, some people are just missing certain wiring, and being placed in a “loving home” can just mean more bodies and a confused 6 year old not understanding why it’s bad that they killed their parents because they got sent to timeout.
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this is likely one of them.
This is wrong, most likely they were a normal baby who got fucked up by his fucked up parents. Is it possible they were a born psychopath? Of course it’s possible, but statistically speaking they were born fine. All we know is a kid with exceptionally shitty parents did something exceptionally shitty. No reason to speculate they were born evil or whatever.
Are kids autistic because of shitty parents? This isn’t about the kid being evil, this is about the high chance, given the kids history, that the child does not have a typical neurological makeup.
This has nothing to do with autism.
He’s in a new school and being raised by his grandparents.
For all intents and purposes, I believe the system believed that Mary Bell could have been helped and her case seemed incredibly sinister.
Damn, that was a trip
I don’t think anyone thinks a 6 yo can’t be helped. But where’s the funding for this?
We gut anything related to education or healthcare, force people to be parents, and even childless people are struggling to care for themselves.
Free options for care are probably going to be Christian focused, further screwing the kid up.
What is honestly the solution here?
I absolutely agree, I didn’t really say he can’t be helped, I was responding to a comment about him belonging in a home where they would help him. It was more about the fact that he will absolutely get worse if left to his parents.
and placed with a loving family that can help them manage whatever issues they have.
I’ve seen that movie several times. Doesn’t end well for the parents
Real life isn’t a movie…
You must be rolling in the dough with your uncanny ability to diagnose mental health issues through a news article.
Fun fact: there’s more than 1 article for this story.
Anyone who’s been paying attention to this series of events will likely conclude similarly.
A normal kid doesn’t see their father try to murder their mother . . .
I might have a lead on any missing pets in the area
It’s amazing to me how focused these comments are on the child being “evil” and not the environment that created this situation. A child isn’t born believing that shooting their teacher is a viable solution to their problems. At 6 years old you’re barely functional. For this to happen they had to exist in a profoundly fucked up environment with no moral compass and access to a lot of information, presented without good context, far above their age. Everyone responsible for raising this kid should be held responsible.
This kid needs years of therapy and support and a loving caregiver. Before the age of 10 children are incredibly impressionable and still undergoing very basic core development, until the age of 25 people are still in development to some level. There are many years ahead where this child can be saved from themselves. There is no reason to call a 6 year old irredeemable.
It can be both sadly. Some kids are born not right. But will usually be ok with good and professional follow up and loving parents. But there are some kids born without the ability to emphasize with others and that never will get the help they need. And they become terrifying in their teens.
Empathy is something that is taught. If some kid does not have the ability to have empathy for others, it’s likely because they were neglected/abused during childhood, and were not taught such a thing as empathy.
I wouldn’t rule out lack of empathy also being potentially biological / genetic. Empathy is based on feeling which is based on chemicals and hormones in your body. It wouldn’t be impossible to be born with the inability to produce/recognize those chemicals/hormones.
Yes, I agree with this very much.
And their adulthood
It’s possible he really has no remorse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
I’d like someone more knowledgeable to confirm this, but I remember that kids cannot be diagnosed certain PDs, so I’m not sure that this can really apply to a child. Also, PDs more often than not derive from childhood problems.
This is somewhat true. I’m fairly knowledgeable about this topic (US) im pretty sure Children still cannot be officially diagnosed with a severe personality disorder until usually 14-18 depending on the state and the personality disorder. Usually it’s higher age brackets for more “severe” disorders like aspd. Yet weirdly low for add, adhd and odd. Depends mainly on state.
Many problematic children will be diagnosed with both odd and adhd /add at a young age and the moment they “age out” of youth services they’ll be immediately diagnosed with aspd or a whole bouquet of other DSM’s. This is one of my bigger pet peeves as parents are often left out of the loop pourpousefully simply as there is no “solution” to a child with such issues other than buttloads of money and time.
To add, as someone who has worked with children and children with behavioral issues. In multiple countries and cultures:
We usually know with like 80% certainty by the time the child is I’d say six or seven, roughly what is wrong with any given child, and can give pretty spot on diagnosis between ourselves. We are ofc not allowed to speak with parents regarding most of these issues, that’s a 5 minute talk between a child’s psychologist and its parents every six months. And Timmy just can’t sitt still for more than 20 minutes! It’s a disaster! But other than thst he’s a little angel!
Also, imagine telling a Karen her precious angel tried stabbed another kid with scissors?
Yeah I fucking stabbed her, I fucking stabbed the lil bitch in the face cause I fucking hate her fucking bitch"
And then two weeks later you almost loose your job, cause surprise. Timmy just stabbed the lil bitch in the FACE with Scissors. I know from the grapevine Timmy is now in a locked mental health juvie. Like. How do I explain. We all knew? All of us who ever worked with him told each other he was going to spend the rest of his life getting bailed out of jail by mommy and daddy, or dead, or 15-life. We knew he was dangerous. Deranged even. Why dosent anyone listen? Parents didn’t care, administration didn’t care. Hell the only people who seemed to actually care were us and the girls parents. (big and biggest Bitch)
It’s this shit + the metal detectors (+admin) that makes people like me charge 100$/h tutoring autistic kids now instead of working 50% and volunteering 50% at local school districts.
I am not a teacher. Just a giant guy who has always been good with kids. (I never stopped being one)
I dont think im intelligent enough to get into the nature vs nurture argument. It’s a doozy. My opinion is “why not both” I’ve seen both sides proven imo, a good nurture just gives you alot more tools to use.
Also, imagine telling a Karen her precious angel tried stabbed another kid with scissors?
Yeah I fucking stabbed her, I fucking stabbed the lil bitch in the face cause I fucking hate her fucking bitch"
Holy shit, that’s actually disastrous and not something that I could think of, so thank you so much for your insider input. Mustn’t be very nice knowing that something terrible has a good chance of happening and not being able to do anything about it.
I dont think im intelligent enough to get into the nature vs nurture argument. It’s a doozy. My opinion is “why not both” I’ve seen both sides proven imo, a good nurture just gives you alot more tools to use.
and I agree with that, dismissing genetics completely also doesn’t feel convincing to me. The biggest takeaway that I wanted my comments to have is to keep an eye on the parents, as very often bad parenting bakes tragedies.
Correct. ASPD isn’t diagnosed until the child is 18. They usually will diagnose them with “conduct disorder” as a minor instead.
After the kindergarten incident the child should’ve been given a psychiatric evaluation. It is possible he’s got a “screw loose” but in the vast majority of cases like this you’ll find there’s violence in the home. The foster system sucks ass, but in this case rolling the dice probably would’ve led to a better outcome than leaving him in that home.
The earliest years are where the individual gains their fundamental personality. This kid is toast, no matter what kind of treatment or assistance they receive. They weren’t born this way, but they’re now done for.
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Not sure I fully agree, humans are social animals and learn what behaviors are beneficial for both themselves and the group. You can point to specific things that run counter to this, but that doesn’t change what humans are. But it is a distinction without a difference. Either way it’s the environment the child is in that is eventuating a negative outcome.
None of that conflicts with the comment you replied to. You’re both correct.
Are you outing yourself?
This is why some US Americans want armed teachers ?
To shoot back at 6 year olds ?
They say it’s so teachers can protect themselves and their students (from the consequences of failed gun laws) but really, it’s just because they have to say something – and it can’t be the truth.
At a civilian level, most of them simply don’t care. They’re confident it will never be their kids and they consider a stranger’s children less important than their own easy access to firearms.
But they can’t say that, so they make flowery comments about freedom, defending their family and how they’re the ones keeping America out of the hands of tyrants, even though they staunchly support tyrants and wouldn’t even wear a mask to protect other people, let alone fight and die for them.
On the corporate and political level, there’s good money and easy votes in guns. It’s no different to tobacco, asbestos and everything else they fought to profit from even as it killed people.
But they can’t say that either. So instead, they coordinate what today’s scapegoat is going to be. Computer games? Too many doors? Timid police? Whatever keeps the money flowing.
The important part for all of them is demanding other solutions are tried before gun control. They know they won’t work, but it will buy them more time and the more time they waste, the better.
That’s why their current solution is “free, universal healthcare for everybody in America, including 5 year olds and people who don’t want treatment, done to a standard far beyond even the most cutting edge of medicine, completely and permanently curing people in less time than it takes to buy a gun”.
Which they then block anyway, because it’s important their conditions for supporting gun control are never met.
there’s good money and easy votes in guns.
Despite it’s current reputation, it’s easy to forget how powerful the NRA was in the eighties and nineties. Zero republicans could get on a ballet without the NRA rating seal of approval.
There’s a massive amount of inertia in American politics.
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NRA checks will continue to arrive on schedule and in the agreed upon amount.
It was $8 million a year until 2012, after which it doubled to $16 million a year. I wonder what could have happened to require such a substantial increase in bribes?
Not just teachers: this obviously wouldn’t have happened, if all the other students had been armed, too.
The only thing that can stop a bad 6-year-old with a gun is a good 6-year-old with a gun.
Bringing whole new level to “Kindergarten Cop” I don’t think Arny could have predicted this
Maybe because of the tumor?
It’s not a tumor
They want armed teachers because the alternative is gun control. They don’t want gun control, so apparently throwing fire on a burning house is now the way to put out fires.
Yes but they seem to be forgetting the very obvious thing that will happen (and has already happened) when you have more guns being brought into schools, even by those you (misguidedly) trust.
For some reason they don’t seem to be able to get that not having guns in or anywhere near a school is the best way not to have shootings at schools.
That article highlights just one obvious problem. Here are others:
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We can’t even rely on our cops to shoot only the people who need to be shot. Now we’re going to trust that teachers will be able to perform better under those stresses - which may include the need to shoot one of their own students - than cops do? How on earth does that track?
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Legal gun owners go on shooting sprees too. Really easy for you when you are already whitelisted to be showing up to school armed.
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A variation on the article I linked: Careless teacher with a gun leaves it in the bathroom and kid finds it and shoots themselves and/or others with it instead of turning it in.
Legal gun owners go on shooting sprees too.
And teachers have to deal with an incredibly stressful situation all day which ever-restrictive Republican education laws in many states make even more stressful. Put guns in the mix and one of them will go postal one day.
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No, no, no, you’ve gotten it all wrong. We need armed teachers to shoot dangerous books.
There’s no way we can ban all of the dangerous books, so we need teachers to shoot them out of the hands of our precious youth.
The intentional shooting itself is all I need to know that the little kid has really significant issues that need to be treated. The fact that he bragged about it isn’t news; he’s six, I’m not expecting him to act maturely about anything.
My mom works in a school as a therapist for very mentally ill children. There are a few that have been sent to the bad kids school because of violence. I wouldn’t be surprised if she told me one of the kids shot someone.
Oh look another shooting that basic safe storage laws could have prevented, without even restricting firearm ownership, but ammosexuals still resist them.
proper gun ownership turns you gay tho
The boy’s mother, however, Deja Taylor, has been charged with felony child neglect and misdemeanour recklessly leaving a loaded firearm as to endanger a child.
It looks like she violated the storage laws.
No, its more like they came up with that as a way to punish someone for this act. As far as im aware, there isnt a law describing how guns need to be sotred to keep them away form kids and if there is, it sure as hell isnt enforced.
How do you enforce this other than punishing it when something happens? The police can’t just go into people’s homes to double check that they have their firearms stored safely. People aren’t going to report themselves.
Why can’t they they? That’s how it works in most other developed nations?
How would safe storage laws prevent this? They would just result in another charge for the mother. You really think someone who leaves a gun around with a 6 year old with behavioral issues would lock it up just because of a law?
Storage laws are the easiest to abide by, though. My stuff all lives in a safe, which key is on my person, because my dotty wife and ditzy daughter frequently forget to lock the door behind them.
Is an intruder just gonna take the safe and lockboxes? Yep.
Am I gonna report that theft as “lockbox, contained one pistol (SN:xxxxxxxx); loaded magazine, 9 rounds?” You betcha.
As you say, LPL videos are free so a lockbox and safe are like, the least obstructive Imlediments ever. What’s the harm in this Pascal’s wager?
Edit: bah! Wrong reply bug! This was directed to a comment down thread 👇
How would safe storage laws prevent this? They would just result in another charge for the mother. You really think someone who leaves a gun around with a 6 year old with behavioral issues would lock it up just because of a law?
The implication is that you actually enforce the laws after you implement them, rather than just implementing them as a way to add a charge. For example in my country police will come to inspect my house at least once a year to make sure im storing them properly and if a neighbour complains or something they will also make an unschedules checked.
I get American gun owners would take this basic safety precaution as the deepest violation of a tyranical government and would shoot a cop before they let them inspect their home for safety, but my point is if they did agree to sensible safe storage legislation this wouldnt have happened
This shit happens literally every day in the US. At this point, it’s like getting worked up about the wind blowing. They’re a lost cause.
Jesus Christ dude.
Bingo they’re just a barrier to entry that negatively effects those of lower income since safes aren’t cheap. Start a program to provide secure no cost safes upon request and I’m with you.
Trigger locks are $10
Trigger locks aren’t secure storage and moreover they’re not $10 every local sheriff’s office I’m aware of will provide a trigger lock or cable lock at no charge no questions asked.
Lockpickinglawyer youtube videos are free.
Nobody on the internet can mention safe storage of firearms without an apologists for people who keep guns in a drawer turning up and saying “Lockpickinglawyer”.
Lol apologist? Are you kidding me right now?
Sorry most gun locks aren’t what they’re marketed as. If all I need to beat a lock is a slip of plastic from a 2 litter your lock is not secure.
LockPickingLawyer is extremely good at picking and bypassing locks. Most children and opportunistic criminals are not.
His channel also showcases the worst locks he can find, because that’s where the views are. In countries with gun laws that actually work, they often have approved safes and locks specifically to ensure they meet a reasonable standard of security.
Millions of Americans keep loaded guns in drawers, glove compartments, closets and naff hidden compartments. The pro-gun community generally turns a blind eye to this and staunchly oppose measures to ensure “responsible gun owners” are actually being responsible.
And the excuse that always pops up eventually is “LockpickingLawyer proves that trying to secure guns with more than threats of domestic violence is a waste of time”.
Surely the 6 year old in question will just eBay a set of sparrow picks and practice tumblers
This is just poor logic. Guns themselves cost money, which negatively effects those one lower incomes. Should we provide free guns to anyone that wants one too?
And you know what else negatively effects those on low incomes? Being shot.
Not at all. Guns are often inherited and transferred without fee. And yes in my opinion if you pass a free series of tests on gun ownership/responsibility/safety then yeah, as a militaristic country invasion is almost certainty sooner or later. Should we be militaristic? Probably not but we adjust for the conditions as they are not as we wish them to be.
Correct, systemic issues including fun fact gun control attempts make lower income areas higher crime and thus higher gun crime. Weird huh?
Correct, systemic issues including fun fact gun control attempts make lower income areas higher crime and thus higher gun crime. Weird huh?
Are you having a stroke? None of this makes any sort of sense.
It’s plain English boss, reading comprehension is your part to provide.
Lmao, whatever you say buddy.
Some states require a trigger lock to be sold along with the weapon. Not as good as a safe but it should prevent accidental discharge. That being said I would support a program to provide no-cost lock boxes (not giant safes) for handguns.
Laws don’t force people to use gun safety protocols, but I think the violation of such laws needs to be a felony (no more guns for you).
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Well that depends on what “unsecured” really means
Yo, how strong does a kindergartner need to be to be able to choke out a fully grown adult? Wild.
It says she’s retired so she’s probably up there in age. That and probably trying not to hurt him
Bigger boy (for his age) and a smaller woman, especially a kid using all his strength, it can definitely happen.
Especially if you’re trying not to hurt them.
My 5 year old is very big compared to my 5’1" 105 lbs. Honestly I could totally see a kid his size if they were deranged being able to do some serious damage to someone my size.
It’s probably more about the person being strangled not wanting to exert too much force on a child.
What. The fuck.
We need to
talk about Kevinpunt this little shitweasel.
See yall next school shooting
Do I have time to eat before?
Yea, they’re on summer break still. Once classes start back up we’ll have them daily again
We need to arm all the teachers. And all the students. And all the guns. And all the bullets: they can carry little baby guns with more guns in them.
Only after every atom in the universe is a gun will we ever be safe from guns.
Screw the kids parents
50th term abortion
Jeez. When I was a 6yo we used rubber bands for that, and sang songs about it. The next generation was not supposed to take it literally. :(((
Y’all are acting outraged while this boy could’ve stopped the Sandy Hook-shooting. It’s only due to unlucky circumstances that he happened to shoot his teacher instead. Wrong place, wrong time. Poor boy.
Upvote because this response seems about as reasonable as the “put him down” responses.
I wonder if unfettered access to violent media, without parental guidance or context, coupled with a culture of narcissistic whinging about how important guns are for life, with zero structure at home led to this happening.
As a person who grew up with unrestricted access to violent media, I argue against this point.
I was watching violent and bloody films like Blade, Kill Bill, From Dusk Till Dawn around the time I was 5. There are a host of violent games avaliable from that time, too.
I feel like there are two reasons one would seek this type of media out: the aesthetics of violence (there’s a reason John Wick has 4 films) and genuine psychopathy, a craving to emulate.
I’d argue very few people have an actual craving to emulate extreme violence, even in an environment saturated with its artificial presentation, and that those people would do so without the access to said saturated media. I blame the parents mostly. It’s not the movies that make the attitude for how to treat others, it’s how you’re shown to treat others in real life
Even as a toddler I understood film was fake
Or lack of conveniently available and accessible abortion clinics.
And possibly FAS or some similar issue .
Kids psychologically profile the same as a psychopath. This is because kids usually haven’t developed their sense of empathy yet.
