Oh noez! Anyway…
People need perspective. The right is literally killing people with policy and detaining /disappearing citizens and destroying this country.
The left is burning cars in protest as it actually hurts the bottom line of a right leader. The other leftists are more apauled at the burning cars than at the stuff the right is doing that is much worse.
I’ve got news for you. This is going to get a lot worse than burnt cars if you ever want it to get better.
the “left” has been in collusion with the right the whole time
no right and left citizens but just citizens caught in the crossfire being fed the horseshit that it is the US “two-party system”
Why limit it to just teslas? Make everyone who wastes money on a luxury vehicle while their are starving children regret it.
Its about hurting musk more than anything else. Its not about attacking luxury. Its not about attacking green. Its about hurting Musk since he is destroying lives with his doge bs. This is said as someone who has no interest in vandalizing Tesla’s. But I understand where they are coming from.
Because ‘luxury’ is a sliding scale. A lot of dudebros spend 100k+ on ‘trucks’ that have never seen dirt, let alone hauled anything. An acquaintance of mine has a V12 Jaguar that he has lovingly coddled back from the dead by sheer will and a LOT of late nights in his meager garage. He’s just to the positive side of ‘poor’ but that car is his fun-money-entertainment (doesn’t have kids or a GF at the moment).
I’m indifferent on unsold Teslas being targeted, not like law exists in this country anymore. 🤷🏻♂️
I am absolutely 100% fucking appalled that people would be ok with doxing Tesla owners. These are real people with families who now have to fear for their safety because they thought it was cool technology when they bought the car. They also may not be able to easily afford to sell the car and buy a new or used one right away.
This does nothing good for anyone and hurts any resistance movement and sadly makes any resistance look like it lacks empathy for fellow human beings just like how what the right is doing shows they lack empathy.
And just like that we’re now all focused on the couple of (quite frankly) idiots that are burning consumers’ Teslas instead of the unsold ones at dealerships. Again. Just like every discussion of a protest is not about the tens of thousands of people protesting but about the 10 people looting.
Looks like the attempt to control the narrative is working as expected.
I don’t care because they waste their money on bullshit status symbols while kids go hungry. Their cars literally cost more than my house.
They can honestly get fucked and I hope a lot worse comes to them until they start doing their part to reduce the disparity in wealth.
There’s a used car lot across the street from my neighborhood with like 3 or 4 Model 3s under $16k.
The Model 3 has been around long enough and priced low enough for it to be in the realm of “boring option of a car”, no more a status symbol than a Toyota Camry.
Eh, I think most people would agree with you here but no one would go out of their way to stop or even denounce this cause that’s at the very bottom of the list of issues.
the ends justify the means. if we fail at this stage, dystopia will reign over western civilization for generations to come. the cruelest things we do to defeat the fascists pale in comparison to the damage they will do if they are allowed to take over.
Assuming for one moment that the ends really do justify the means, how is burning somebody’s car going to stop the rise of fascism?
it’s a war. all resistance is for the cause.
And how does trespassing on some random person’s property and destroying their car constitute “resistance?”
it’s a total rejection of musk. it will force tesla to oust him. the car owners are just pawns in a greater war against the fascists. sorry/not sorry.
Ok, say this all succeeds and Musk is thrown out of Tesla. What next? He’ll still be the a billionaire with a US President as a puppet and complete “authority” to continue gutting the federal government.
I’m usually really good at being able to be objective and see both sides of an issue. I just can’t do that with this. It’s equivalent to a gang spraying and praying and killing innocent bystanders and saying “Oh well, it was for the cause”. Like how is this any better than the right being ok with making millions of poor people homeless and hungry?
I am doubtful.
Musk lost his mind before Tesla sold a car.
Sure, but the public perception was completely different. Tesla was a leftist political statement. Electric cars? Saving the climate? What a ridiculous idea only libs would subscribe to, electric cars will never work. Teslas were keyed by coal-rolling right wingers.
The opinion went a total 180°, and many people still own Teslas from that time. I have no sympathy for e.g. Cybertruck owners, but many Tesla owners were buying them years ago, when they were seen as tech for progressives that care about the environment.
No. Teslas were always sold by an unstable lunatic. They were never some leftist statement. Even when EVe were hitting their stride other brands are much better and don’t have wanna be fascists leading the company.
No innocent people on this website as far as I can tell
You shouldn’t be ok with doxing people even if they are not good people.
It’s an all or nothing standpoint. If you are fine with people getting doxxed for some reason you believe to be evil, then you inadvertently say that doxxing as a whole is fine. Eventually someone innocent is going to get doxxed, whether it be by accident (no such list of doxxed people is 100% accurate) or by someone with different viewpoints than you.
anyone that makes goose and gander comparisons applying to both humans and sociopaths is woefully naive.
it’s ok when the good guys do it. we get all the exceptions, they get none. it’s a war. they’re not humans anymore. if we want to win, we have to see it that way. there is no amount of cruelty we can inflict on our enemies that will cause greater suffering than what happens if they win.
no fucking mercy. guns.
You shouldn’t be ok with doxing people even if they are not good people.
What if they’re pedophiles?
I don’t think you’ve looked at the website. The only individuals on there are Elon musk and cash Patel
Dogequest said it will remove the personal details of Tesla drivers only if they can prove they have sold their vehicles.
It is unknown if all the names listed on the map are Tesla owners. In New Jersey, the site listed close to 50 alleged owners.
NBC News spoke to six Tesla owners or their representatives who confirmed that at least some information on the website was accurate, though other owners said that in some cases phone numbers or addresses were out of date.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/tesla-dogequest-website-owner-list-dox-site-link-rcna197112
Considering one of their statement literally says that to prove you shouldn’t be doxxed you have to give out even more private info, it seems pretty telling.
Dogequest said it will remove the personal details of Tesla drivers only if they can prove they have sold their vehicles.
That’s incredibly fair. They shouldn’t have had the money for those vehicles in the first place.
Sell them, get something cheaper, and use the money to help people that will never be able to afford a fucking tesla.
Especially now, selling a Model 3 to get something cheaper is going to be in “car is probably falling apart” territory. Those things are relatively cheap on the used car market now, less than you’d expect a random 2020 sedan to cost.
Oh I see! I do not support doxxing regular people
then you’re weak and a liability to the cause.
lol. How am I a “liability to the cause” exactly?
I went there and there are 5 people listed on it, like Elon and Kash Patel. If they have regular innocent people on the site it isn’t showing them to me.
The vast majority of icons are just dealerships and superchargers.
Reminds me: HOW THE HELL is their stock UP 23.72% this past week. I mean, what. the. fuck.
Because investors know that they will almost certainly eventually be bailed out by a massive government purchase, so they bought the dip.
probably artificially kept up by investors, or by musk or his cohorts so they can sell thier stocks before it crashes.
This is gonna be the thing that splits the left into “fuck yeah burn them” and “this is going too far” and then nothing will get done because we’ll focus too much on infighting. Can’t we all come together for something not stupid like destroying random people’s cars? If you’re going to take drastic measures, at least do something more productive. Throw a Molotov at your representatives’ cars instead. I have no tears for a burnt Tesla, but I wish people were using this energy to punish more deserving people in more meaningful ways. I’m still waiting on all those “Luigi copycats” people keep thinking are gonna appear
I’m still waiting on all those “Luigi copycats” people keep thinking are gonna appear
There’s been 2 attacks on CEOs since… The copycats are appearing.
I wish they were more successful, but yes it seems our media has learned to stop talking about it, same with the Trump assassination attempts
Billionaire Media just learned not to sensationalize them.
There’s been 2 attacks on CEOs since
List 'em pls
Good, but there’s still more to go.
Karma is a bitch.
My friend told me about this show he was working at. It was a pharmaceutical meeting with lots of c suite execs.
They told him to not mention to anyone that the execs would be there on account of “recent news”.
It’s not random peoples’ cars. It’s cars at Tesla dealerships.
Random peoples’ cars may not be getting burnt, but they are absolutely getting damaged by keying or spray paint or whatever. I know at least one owner who had something like that happen to them and they now fear for their family’s safety because of it. That’s not cool.
It’s really cool, actually.
People buy expensive cars while children starve just so they can look good in front of their peers. I support whoever damages their status symbols.
What about destroying unsold teslas, as well as other acts of resistance?
Fine by me, vandalizing a car that’s already been bought is where I think it gets pointless and counterproductive. Trashing the dealerships and corporate locations is great because the business is suffering, rather than a random person.
Destroying unsold Teslas at least doesn’t hurt people who may have bought their cars just because at one point Tesla made the best EVs (not even close to the best cars, but definitely the best EVs in terms of powertrain and battery. A while ago, anyway). So there’s way less collateral damage and fewer people to alienate.
There is one caveat though. The dealerships are probably insured and would financially be better off having the cars burn as nobody’s buying them right now. Though maybe if enough Teslas burn, Tesla dealers become uninsurable. Now that would put them out of business real quick.
Additionally, if someone managed to somehow disable a Tesla factory without directly hurting the workers, that would bring tears of joy to many people. The workers themselves are just simple laborers though. It’s not like jobs are easy to come by right now and I’m sure plenty would leave if they could. So I hope nobody shoots up a factory with workers inside or something. Even leaving the moral implications of homicide aside, it would also instantly boost Elon and Tesla in a lot of people’s eyes if something like this happened.
I think the charging stations would be good. It’s not like they’re that useful for anyone not driving a tesla. Even when your non-tesla car can be used in one I’ve heard of people getting harassed by tesla drivers for doing so.
Interesting idea!
Hmm maybe. I’m not sure on the specifics. I thought other cars could use those and that’s why they sell those adapters.
Also it sorta feels wrong to me, ngl. Like one should be hitting oil and gas infrastructure instead.
God gave us two hands for a reason :)
Poetic, I like it 😊 😉
Unfortunately Tesla chargers have been becoming open to other manufacturers to use as well. They no longer serve just Teslas.
Guess who makes the money from the chargers though.
o͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡╮༼;´༎ຶ.̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨.̸̸̨̨ ༎ຶ༽╭o͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡͡
I don’t know why but some leftists will just find the dumbest fucking hills to die on, while completely ignoring real causes that actually move agendas forward.
Where is this energy in our unions and community groups? Where are these people in town halls and school board meetings? Where are the canvassers, the volunteers, the organizers?
Stop burning cars and start doing some of the damned work you cowards. Invest in your community and show people you’re helpful and trustworthy instead of psychotic and destructive.
You’re describing the same person.
hey, cool idea? what if you didn’t start the infighting with your civility bullshit?
maybe you should fuck up a car as penance.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with me is causing infighting
Hey, that sounds like the way the mods and the inside clique at BoingBoing operate!
plenty of people disagree with me for really good reasons. there are genuine things to argue about.
if you don’t think the tesla stuff is worth paying attention to, just do something the fuck else. don’t yuck others’ yum ‘because its not the absolute best use of your time, guys, stop’.
I fundamentally disagree with doxing regular people. It’s one thing if it’s a public figure who is actively antagonizing people and using anonymity as a layer of protection against repercussions for their awful acts. But publishing the names and addresses of people who simply bought a car is not something we should be doing.
I agree with you on doxing and am very confused by burning normal people’s cars as a strategy.
I’m not seeing normal people on this website. Am I missing something?
Normally I’d agree.
But, I don’t really care anymore.
One side has crossed all sorts of lines and now pushback is happening. Innocents always get caught up in situations like that.
They can sell their Teslas.
Isn’t this just class infighting though, something completely against the benefit of the workers so the owners can continue to pick our pockets while we aren’t looking?
It’s never class infighting when you are attacking class traitors. They are free, of course, to stop being class traitors.
Same logic applies to cops.
If you truly think someone who bought a car years ago is a class traitor, I don’t really know what to say.
It’s not like we’re accusing them of planning it.
But the bottom line is the owner of the company they are supporting is a NAZI who bought a presidency and is deconstructing our government and illegally firing thousands of Americans.
If you continue to drive/buy Teslas, you are supporting that Nazi and empowering him to do more damage to our country.
If they are still driving a luxury car made by Nazis, to promote Nazism, even when it becomes very obvious a nazi symbol… Yes, they are.
First, Teslas are not luxury cars, haha. You could buy one for $35,000 USD right now, and their build quality is significantly subpar of luxury.
To the main point - look, I get it, the CEO is a Nazi and fuck anyone who buys or bought a Tesla recently, but punishing a working class citizen with a 5 year old car and telling them they need to take a loss and cough up for a new vehicle is extremely stupid and naive.
I sure hope you dont own a Volkswagen, as it’s a symbol of Nazism.
Luxury doesn’t imply quality. Plenty of luxury items are worthless trash, and it’s pretty clear that a main reason for their price dive is to do with context more than the product.
but punishing a working class citizen with a 5 year old car
Is this something that is actually happening? Or is this a hypothetical edge case that assumes anti-Tesla activists are ignorant?
Is the current execs of Volkswagem supporting a neonazi, right now?
No.
I still don’t own one, however.
And yes, I get it. Sometimes it is an inconvenience to oppose fascism. Wah.
And 5 years ago, Musk was still a shitstain, so even that excuse is flimsy as fuck.
Not when that part of the class is determined to ruin everyone else in the class. Nazi’s aren’t a part of the community.
Yeah, I hate to break it to you, but people who bought a Tesla four years ago aren’t Nazis.
No, but they are supporting one by continuing to buy/drive them.
How is having a paid off car supporting anyone but one’s own means of commuting to work?
Because everyone is rich like you and can afford to just buy a new car because some CEO revealed himself to be an evil cunt. You are so out of touch it hurts my head. If folks like you are the majority of the people on the anti-musk side we are so very destined to lose this war. So discouraging, ugh. We have no chance at all with that mindset.
Because everyone is rich like you and can afford to just buy a new car because some CEO revealed himself to be an evil cunt.
Lol. Buddy, I can’t even afford a Tesla. And yes, if by owning a specific vehicle I was supporting a FUCKING NAZI who bought a presidency and was deconstructing the democracy I live in and firing my fucking friends from their federal jobs, you better bet your ass I’d do something about it. Like selling that fucking car and getting another one.
Sometimes you have to grow a pair of balls and do the right thing, even if it inconveniences you. And no one who owns a Tesla is in a position to be massively inconvenienced by getting rid of it.
Isn’t this just class infighting though
Nah. It’s trying to affect the bottom line of an extremely wealthy person who uses his wealth to the detriment of average Americans. Limit the wealth. Limit the amount of damage he can do. Or, we could do nothing to his bottom line and he can become even more wealthy and do even more than buy a presidency and deconstruct our government, illegally laying off thousands of federal workers.
Also, I can’t afford a Tesla. So I’m not even sure if I consider Tesla owners to be of the same class as I am.
You do know he already got paid for those so you are not impacting anything except some rando innocent person who now will actively hate your cause and move further towards the fascist side? Or maybe you don’t. Know it or not burning peoples Tesla’s is one of the absolute worst and stupidest moves someone can do if they actually want things to change. That just adds one more them to the “us vrs them”.
The damage done to the Teslas costs insurance companies money. Insurance companies hate paying for stuff, so if this is sustained, insurance rates for Teslas will increase. That combined with dealing with the vandalism itself gives customers a reason not to use a Tesla, which means car dealerships and rentals will sell less, who will then purchase less ultimately losing Tesla money. People who buy expensive cars from fascists who are actively controlling our government aren’t innocent, and IMO the people vandalizing Teslas are doing more for society than the peaceful parades and book clubs are since it actually costs them something.
And all those peoples whose cars burn turn to the MAGAts in a rage and join the team up to ‘own the libs’ even harder. Even if the plan worked, which is highly unlikely, it would do more damage than it would help. Yeah it would be great to tear down Musks fortune. Not going to stop Trump from being president though and it will make more people want to vote for his side next time. Yeah. That sound super helpful. Y’all are so convinced you are right that no argument is going to change your mind. You are as bad as a MAGAt when it comes to listening and really thinking about things you do not immediately agree with. Ignore the forest for the trees…
If these are the best ideas and people that the left has to offer we are never going to win this. Ugh.
If they’re pushed away from harming property owned by the relatively well-off but not from committing genocide on actual people, then that’s on them
If these are the best ideas and people that the left has to offer we are never going to win this. Ugh.
Do you have any better ideas?
Personally, I think people that own them should dump them, flood the market with used Swasticars nobody wants to be associated with. However, direct action does seem to be having an impact.
I suspect anyone the victim of this type of crime will think twice about buying another.
As someone who was raised in a conservative family but who climbed through a great many hoops to finally arrive at socialist thought: if you nutters were the left while I made that journey, I doubt I ever would have finished it.
The world has enough psychos in it, please stop hurting people who you can’t even be sure are complicit.
I was also raised in a conservative family, and leftists vandalizing stuff didn’t stop me from arriving at socialism, at most it delayed it slightly since I wasn’t yet aware of what the driving factor was, which I ended up connecting later. Everything leftists do pisses off conservatives who have different motives, I don’t think vandalizing cars from fascists running our government is exceptionally different and I don’t think most people who are still developing a baseline political framework can afford them anyways so it doesn’t directly affect them.
They didn’t “simply buy a car”, they bought a symbol, and everything that brings along with it.
If you buy one today, sure, a few years ago, before their QC issues and mush really started fucking with the company, they weren’t an awful deal.
Even the cyberdumpsters, you could have been on a waiting list for 3-4 years and paid a solid downpayment.
What happens if mush buys out Rivian, all those retroactively turn to shit?
They’re also probably trapped in a loan. That 50-60k car was financed. it’s now worth 1/3 of it’s original cost. A lot of people who shouldn’t have spent 50k on a car will because monthly payments make it affordable to them, now they sell it and can only replace it with a hundai.
now they sell it and can only replace it with a hundai.
Which is exactly what they should do, hopefully it puts a used one out to further prevent a (committed) buyer from getting a new one.
I guess it sucks to buy a car from a nazi, huh?
This is not new… how long has he owned twitter? 3 years ago? How long has it been since he accused a lead of a rescue team of being a pedo? 9 years now?
The energy is good, the aim is shit.
Children.
It still looks like there’s a clearweb site: https://dogeque.st/
I’m not sure if it’s a mirror or the OG. Love the custom cursor.
And, for convenience, the .onion link: dogeqstqzn2yjns2d6ccns7aa52tglno63ay2uv2orfvd7e23khcsxid.onion (you will need Tor to access)
“DOGEQUEST values your privacy and does not collect any personal information about our users.” 🤣
Is there a paywall-free version of this article?
This topic is unfortunately a black spot for the lemmy community. The hate boner for musk is so hard, that some people now fail to see that burning other people’s cars is a problem. This kind of behavior can lead to some very bad consequences for people who’s only crime was literally just buying a car. Kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
its mostly trucks and dealerships getting targeted.
The hate boner for musk is so hard, that some people now fail to see that burning other people’s cars is a problem.
So, you’d be ok with someone wearing a Nazi pin, because “It was their grandpa’s”?
Im gonna put it this way, I’d be OK with not burning down someones house because their their grandpa was a nazi and they lived in it before. Also, not even remotely comparable, get your head out of your ass.
I feel like a place to live isn’t a fair comparison but if we were to use that, can we burn someone’s house down if they bought their house from a known Nazi, and also knowingly made that Nazi a profit he could use to oppress people?
I’d bet that’s already widespread in America lmao
Yes, I’d be ok with that, especially if they flew nazi flags “To memorialize paw paw”…
Which is basically the same thing as torching other Nazi symbols, like Teslas. Because it’s always acceptable, as a matter of community defense, to destroy Nazi iconography and property. Get your head out of your ass.
What if they were a Nazi because Papa Was a Nazi? Can I burn their house down then? Please tell everybody what’s acceptable. Be the Arbiter for the world. To what level are we allowed to defend ourselves against fascism?
Burning some random persons car is not defending yourself from fascism, lol. How stupid can you get? People are mad at Musk so they are trying to burn down anything associated with him. If anything you dumbshits are encouraging people to join the fascist side. You think someone who does not care either way is going to get their car burned by a Musk hater and all of a sudden think “Damn, you know what? Musk really must be a Nazi if someone burned my Tesla. I am going to join the cause~!”
Idiots are making more people join the other side with these misdirected angry outbursts against innocent folks. Especially since most of them bought them back before everyone knew Musk was a crazy Nazi.
I’m also curious. What’s okay for us to do and why?
Lets just burn all the VW’s too they were literal card carrying Nazi’s. Who cares if it was 80 years ago these new owners should be punished! Driving a car made by a Nazi is driving a car made by a Nazi eh?
We are talking about current behavior, rigjt now. Not 80 years ago…
Simply moronic argument
My arguments are moronic, lol. Hard to believe you can even say that with a straight face. Fine you all want more people to join the other side obviously no argument from anyone is going to change your minds. Enjoy losing this war, whatever. No point in arguing, you are as bad as the MAGA fools when it comes to realizing when you are wrong. Anyone who disagrees with you is obviously wrong no matter what because you just can never be wrong about anything. Damn that sounds familiar.
There is no way that burning random peoples cars is going to do anything except make more people pissed at our side and push more people into Trumps arms. This is one of the stupidest things we could do. Burn the dealerships that is awesome, burn down Musks house even better. Burn down aunt millies Tesla? Pointless and counterproductive. You all sound like a bunch of pissed off teenagers. No logic, just anger.
All of the burned cars that I have seen have been owned by Tesla dealerships. At least people are attacking the company’s property at much greater scale than individual owners.
I feel like unless you bought an Incel Camino or a brand new Tesla like in the last year, you really shouldn’t be on the receiving end of quite so much hate, TBH. They were the car that finally got EVs off the ground as an acceptable alternative, so it’s a shame early adopters are possibly being lumped in with MAGA truck owners.
The only reason EV’s never got off the ground in the US is because the auto industry was shutting that shit down every step of the way. Iirc a few people even got disappeared. There are numerous documentaries out there.
I agree though, going after regular folks just because they bought a car isn’t cool. People should stay focused on the actual fascis7s.
Disappeared? The oil and gas industry has been making people disappear for profit since before automobiles became a thing. This industry will murder you if you’re actually competition or inhibiting them.
Car dealerships are fair game I don’t care what happens to cars there. But an individual’s car, I wouldn’t go beyond leaving notes on the windshield, otherwise you’re just making people angry for no good reason. Before 2020 a lot of people may have bought a Tesla and while Musk was always fishy, at the time it wasn’t any worse than most other car companies. And not everyone can “just sell” their cars. Cybertrucks though… These are actively dangerous and disabling them is a matter of public safety 😝
It’s hard to argue against public safety 😅
And not everyone can “just sell” their cars.
If you bought a Tesla… Yes, you can just “sell your car”. These are not cars that a typical working class joe buys.
The only reason EV’s never got off the ground in the US is because the auto industry was shutting that shit down every step of the way.
Is this Tesla’s fault? How is this relevant? Everyone knows this; it’s like, the number one “did you know?” fact about EVs.
Tesla bennifits from it giving them a monopoly other market.
If you think EV companies benefit from companies like GM trying to shut down EVs at every opportunity, you need to rethink.
They don’t. But tesla does
I guess it does make Tesla the number one symbol of the failure of US capitalism.
Leaf was the first “off the ground”. Tesla were the first to show that production EVs weren’t limited to boring econoboxes.
Anyway, you can filter out early adopters because they didn’t have factory anti-chrome, so if you see a shiny trim around the windows - it’s probably got a pre-public meltdown era owner.
But look harder than just that! Many owners got the chrome blacked out with a vinyl wrap. And the blacked out appeared in 2018 in the model y first, which could’ve been just right after the pedo remarks.
True, that’s why I sneaked a “probably” in my comment lol
The leaf did such a disservice to EVs that the world would probably have been better off without it. It was ugly, it was slow, it had no range, it had no battery cooling so degradation was awful, and charging was slow to boot.
I knew like 2 people that had leafs, they loved them.
I knew like 2 people that had leafs
So all of them
We wouldn’t be here without it though. It did a decent job popularizing EVs, much better than i-Miev for example.
Would we though? The model S was only ~2 years away and that was the first EV people took seriously.
The leaf was affordable, but depreciation hit so hard that buying one new was only for actually insane people. And the battery degradation was almost as bad as the price degradation so your meh range became even worse. In ideal conditions it was fine, but anything worse and it was not a good option.
I’m not a time traveller so I can’t say for sure, but cars lile Chevy Bolt and Renault Zoe wouldn’t be the same, since Leaf showed that there was demand for small BEV hatches and battery cooling systems
Most of those were fixed with gen 2 but the one the two that really matter were not fixed: no water cooling and the CHAdeMO charging. What is worse is that they still didn’t fix it over the last 8 years with a newer generation when it was clear those were both nonstarters. Instead they came out with the overpriced Arya which is much worse than the competition.
But make no mistake, the Leaf back in 2011 was a game changer. It showed that your commuter car could very much be an EV.
A lot of that is why I have kind of always resented the tesla marketing even before we k new musk was a hateful sexpest. My uncle had one of the early models before they added a lot of the safety features and it was REAL fun to go basically have instantaneous acceleration… and he would probably have died from that if he didn’t die from cancer instead.
But very quickly they made the argument that people need giant batteries and massive range. And that still permeates today. And the reality is that, no, people don’t. The vast majority of driving is commuting which tends to be more stop and go than not and just making charging stations in parking lots more ubiquitous would go a REALLY long way. No, not the super chargers. Just simple slow as hell level 1 and 2 chargers. And that would cover basically everyone 6.9 days a week outside of the folk with REALLY long commutes.
Where long range and super fast charging DOES help is for people doing long road trips and… folk think they are gonna be in their 30s and 40s driving 12 hours straight with only a stop to dump their piss bottle at a gas station. The reality is that by the time you are even considering a “new” car, you are probably also going to be more likely to stop for lunch or have kids to deal with where 30-40 minutes for a full recharge makes a lot more sense.
But instead we got into the mindset that you need a massive battery so you only charge up once a week and when you do it is a 10 minute recharge because even that is too long to wait.
I occasionally think of an alternate timeline where we realized that was stupid and instead L1/2 charging stations were a lot more popular and pretty much every major manufacturer switched to plug-in hybrids. Yeah, their battery tends to be shite compared to a “real” EV but people vastly underestimate how much you get from regenerative braking under real world conditions. Couple years back I had a rental toyota sedan and ended up driving all around Ontario for the better part of a week on like half a tank of gas and it was insane. And the needle literally did not move the entire time I was in Toronto or even frigging London.
people vastly underestimate how much you get from regenerative braking under real world conditions
From what I’ve heard and read, that’s why the original Opel Ampera/Chevy Volt was so beloved.
and pretty much every major manufacturer switched to plug-in hybrids
Nowadays we have new Honda (and Nissan but who cares tbh) hybrids where the engine doesn’t drive the wheels 99% of the time. So we’re intersecting with that timeline a lil bit lol
I think you are stuck on theory and don’t have a good grasp of the pragmatic realities here.
But very quickly they made the argument that people need giant batteries and massive range. And that still permeates today. And the reality is that, no, people don’t. The vast majority of driving is commuting which tends to be more stop and go than not
I consider a 300 mile battery to be the smallest I’d buy for a number of reasons.
and just making charging stations in parking lots more ubiquitous would go a REALLY long way. No, not the super chargers. Just simple slow as hell level 1 and 2 chargers.
In most of the western world all of those parking lots you’re talking about are private property. Getting L1/L2 chargers installed in dozens or hundreds of spots. That is not only a significant expense, but you’d have to talk to, and convince millions of business owners to make massive investments for something that would take decades to even come to break even. Also, the costs don’t end at installation. Regular maintenance is required for EV chargers to continue to be operational. That costs money too.
Further, there are a frightening number of Charging Networks. Each with their own app, account requirement, and billing terms. Just because an L2 charger exists at your location doesn’t mean its a fair price for charging. Some business owners charge MASSIVELY for L2 charging (which is their right, its their charger).
And that would cover basically everyone 6.9 days a week outside of the folk with REALLY long commutes.
You’re talking about literally millions of L1/L2 chargers that would have to exist with even more than 1:1 availability for each EV sold.
Where long range and super fast charging DOES help is for people doing long road trips and… folk think they are gonna be in their 30s and 40s driving 12 hours straight with only a stop to dump their piss bottle at a gas station. The reality is that by the time you are even considering a “new” car, you are probably also going to be more likely to stop for lunch or have kids to deal with where 30-40 minutes for a full recharge makes a lot more sense.
I don’t know of any EV with a single charge range that could drive for 12 hours at highway speeds. The largest are 400-450miles which would be a very generous 6 hours tops.
But instead we got into the mindset that you need a massive battery so you only charge up once a week and when you do it is a 10 minute recharge because even that is too long to wait.
No, you need a larger battery for a whole bunch of other reasons:
- you may be in the 34% of Americans live in a rental and don’t have an L1/L2 EV charging option.
- you can’t guarantee your regular public charger will be operational as lack of maintenance (because they are privately owned) or vandalism
- its the deep winter and you only have 70% of your battery capacity available to you
- its still deep winter and you’re expending more charge on keeping the car warmer than you do in summer
- there’s ICE vehicles sitting in your public charging spot blocking your ability to charge that day
- you came home exhausted and forgot to plug in the L2 charger at home, and if you had a small battery your day is now ruined/costly
- there was a power outage at home for a night but with a larger battery its no problem and you can charge it in a day or so
- your spouse was going to pick up the kids, but she had a thing come up at work, and so you’ve got to go pick them up and take them to Karate and ballet practice which was more than your standard commute charge
- There’s construction on your commute and the detour takes you way out of your normal way for a few months until the work is complete.
- You want to visit a city more than a commute distance away and even then public fast chargers are few and far between, assuming they’re functional/available when you get to one.
All of these things are solved only by a larger-than-commute-size battery.
If we lived in a planned authoritarian society like China, your idea of ubiquitous L1/L2 would be more viable. Business owners would be required to install the state sponsored L1/L2 EV charger. Alternatively, these would be installed and maintained by a public government service. In the West though, its a pipe dream to get everyone to agree and be able to afford to roll out that level of infrastructure all across a country.
In the West though, its a pipe dream to get everyone to agree and be able to afford to roll out that level of infrastructure all across a country.
Oh, we did that, with the IRA, and we, of course, gifted it to Elon Musk, after we paid to build it.
Oh, we did that, with the IRA
We didn’t. Not what @NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip is suggesting, which is L1/L2 charging. L1/L2 is much slower but much cheaper EV charging infra to deploy
and we, of course, gifted it to Elon Musk, after we paid to build it.
Musk is a Nazi asshole, but Tesla only got less than 13% of those awards for DC fast charging deployments:
“Tesla has won almost 13 percent of all EV charging awards from the law” source
That’s actually pretty cool to know. Thanks!
Tbh there was also a time where I was under the assumption that all the big car manufacturing CEOs are probably not much better, Elon was just stupid enough to be open about it. For that I’m willing to give the benefit of doubt unless they recently got a Tesla brand new or have the PS1 graphics car.
ive seen people around my area buying new teslas as of recently including the truck, they know full well elon is capable of, they just seem ignorant to his politics. also the fact the teslas as QC problems people are ignoring, going back all the way before twitter purchase. on reddit people were buying the truck as way to get attention, so im not surprised they are this ignorant.
I’m kinda conflicted about this. On the one hand, selling a car takes time and energy, and might not necessarily be feasible to do in just a few months, especially since the market for em is going to SUCK. On the other hand, if you continue to drive a car from a company owned by a literal Nazi once you know, then… well I don’t feel too bad for you.
Once you purchase the vehicle, the damage is already done. There is nothing to gain from busting up cars people already purchased.
That’s not correct though. Just like most people don’t want a car that’ll spontaneously combust, they also don’t want a car that will be likely to be vandalised. I’m not saying it’s justified, but continued vandalism does lower the utility value of the vehicle and dissuades future purchases of would be buyers.
I switched to EVs in 2014, and went fully electric in 2018. My problem is that there still isn’t a good alternative I can use for long distance trips for my family of 7. I’d love to switch to something like the Kia EV9, but I almost have my current car paid off, and can’t afford another $80k car. I’m conflicted, because I don’t want to switch back to a gas car, and I believe my current power company is on track to be 50% sustainable/renewable in 5-10 years. I feel like it could take me years as opposed to months to find a replacement EV that works for me.
Rent a van the few times you need one
… What tesla are you fitting 7 people into these days?
Because they only have one vehicle that isn’t a sedan and… he was a full mask off hatemonger long before the cybertruck actually hit market.
The only 7-seater available in 2018 was the Model X. Yes, it was clear he was an asshole as far back as 2018, but he was still a huge proponent of mitigating climate change (in hindsight it was clearly a grift for him), so at the time I thought it was a net positive. I used up a lot of my savings to afford it, so it would be difficult for me to switch to anything that isn’t a gas car.
Carvana takes like… a couple of hours to sell on. Check in hand and all.
I’d point out Volkswagen and Porsche also still exist. With the former now owning a laundry list of other brands.
I’m definately in the camp where people need to take a step back and look at who they are hurting with this and how realistic it is to expect people to just get rid of their car. Especially now nobody wants them.
After all just because Democrats now hate this brand doesn’t mean MAGA starts buying them up…
people need to take a step back and look at who they are hurting with this and how realistic it is to expect people to just get rid of their car.
I think after reading @doughless@lemmy.world 's perspective, I’m certainly a bit more sympathetic. I guess I had a picture in my head about the economic status of the typical Tesla owner that they could probably afford to absorb the loss if they could afford the thing in the first place. I forgot we live in a world where you can finance everything, even your take-out, and that even luxury car owners might be living paycheque to paycheque.
That, and that there are probably quite a few people who got one for environmental reasons who don’t deserve to be hurt for what was most likely an innocent mistake.
I’m definately in the camp where people need to take a step back and look at who they are hurting with this and how realistic it is to expect people to just get rid of their car.
Ok, so they don’t need to get rid of it. Park it, cover with a tarp, and use public transportation. Easy solution.
Sorry if it’s inconvenient, but opposing fascism isn’t convenient to do.
Hell, if that’s too far a bridge, the owner is of course, free to take a can of paint, and put “Elon Musk is a Nazi” on the car. Problem solved.
Yes, take public transport, from suburbia…
Man, it certainly does suck that they’ve opposed public transportation in their community in the past… starting to see a pattern here.
so it’s a shame early adopters are possibly being lumped in with MAGA truck owners.
They could just sell it, or just not drive it, and keep it covered with a tarp…
Sure, everyone got the money to do that… Everything you have written in this thread so far is quite … let’s go with reality shifted.
The money to do what? Take public transportation?
People showing exactly where they draw the class line in here lmao
Anyone who has the excess wealth to afford a tesla and chooses to buy one over helping those in need can get fucked.
The site is nearly useless anyway. It lists very few actual car owners and the ones I’ve looked at weren’t even accurate.
Anyone got the address? I want to add it to my block list so I never get tempted to visit it.
I went here https://dogeque.st/
Wherr there is the onion link dogeqstqzn2yjns2d6ccns7aa52tglno63ay2uv2orfvd7e23khcsxid.onion
I want my information removed. Absolutely! Just provide us with proof that you’ve sold your Tesla. Email takedown@dogeque.st. We only accept scanned documents in JPG and PNG formats.
Can I mirror this website? Of course! Anticipating that some might try to take us down, we’ve designed DOGEQUEST to be super easy to mirror. It’s just a single HTML file—no backend or external services required. Simply save the page from your browser. To display the map, you’ll need to supply your own Protomaps tileset. Grab one from https://maps.protomaps.com/builds/. Save the .pmtiles file as ‘tiles.pmtiles’ in the same folder as the DOGEQUEST .html file. You can reduce the size of the PMTiles file from around 120GB to about 15GB by extracting just the United States using go-pmtiles. Now, host both the .html file and tiles.pmtiles from the same directory using any web server that supports range requests. Seriously, any web server will do. And voilà, you’re all set!
Holy, I did not quite expect to have an interactive map. o.o
