Americans would rather spend $20k a year on useless health insurance, just to make sure their taxes don’t accidentally pay for black and brown peoples healthcare…
American Elites and conservative morons.
Not all Americans. The majority have wanted socialized Healthcare for a long time, but actual political results rarely match the popular opinion here.
At least 50% voted racism. There is no hiding behind the “Elites”.
Even the majority of republican voters want health care reform. It’s a cross-party issue, for sure. Trump even lied and said he had some beautiful, magical healthcare plan that’ll fix everything. People who believed him are clearly still idiots of course.
I am sick of this bullshit argument. The ‘majority’ of Republican voters can say whatever they want, but they vote for a party whose core values are against healthcare reform and will even take it away if another party tries to implement it. For 20 years or more voting republican has meant supporting racism and corporate interests above all else. Republican voters are getting exactly what they voted for. Stop trying to make them sound like victims.
It isn’t bullshit per se. It is by and large what they want when polled, but they’re too fucking stupid, too hung up on single issue voting, or too easily misled and naive and think the awful people they keep voting for will somehow not fuck them over some day
Follow the money. Find out which politicians resist healthcare and you’ll find who’s getting paid to resist it.
I’m not referring to votes, but basically every pill or survey that asks people about these ideas. Most Americans generally agree with and want universal healthcare.
Also, a lot of voters are single- or few-issue voters. With limited choices, some will just vote anyways closest to their beliefs. That doesn’t necessarily mean they agree with the full package.
And yet sweet racism/homophobia keeps them from demanding universal healthcare.
You are ignorant on this issue. Please do better before making generalized prejudice statements.
50% of what? Wasn’t his tally closer to 30% of gen pop?
The nonvoting assholes add up to more than 50%.
…and then piss and moan about fuel prices for their pick up trucks and SUVs with V8 motors.
Uh, plenty of Americans are black and brown
Mostly missing the point here. Yes some minorities also voted against health care, but the overwhelming majority of votes comes from white conservatives and the victims are proportionally higher minorities. Most of these voters claim they’re not racists but the results are a great example of systemic racism.
I’m pretty sure even the white population are in favor of socialized healthcare. It’s just that the insurance companies spend a crap on of money lobbying our politicians to make sure it remains private so they can squeeze out every single penny from us. Oh. And other companies in general to make sure you don’t switch job easily
No they aren’t especially if you combine 40+ or men with that statement.
The point is that “Americans” is a net that encompasses a lot of people, so generalizing like you’re doing is a hot garbage shortcut that smacks of the exact kind of xenophobic behavior you’re railing against.
It’s just bigots being bigots.
What is it with Americans and this fear of socialism? Yes let’s have some socialism, what the hell is the problem with that?
Americans see China and think: “Oh no, very bad because of socialism/communism”
But as someone who was born in mainland China (I’m Chinese-American), PRC is nothing “socialist”/“communist” at all, its a horrible State-Capitalist Authroitarian Regime under the guise of Communist aesthetics. I don’t fear socialism/communism because they never truely existed, in fact, I’d say that Norway or Finland (based on what info I could gather anyways, never personally been to Norway or Finland so I can’t speak from experience) would be more closer to “socialism” than PRC, at least they actually have a social safety net, PRC doesn’t.
As for why Americans fear these terms, I think it’s because, for some people anyways, you can get labeled as an enemy of the state to even uttering “socialism”/“communism”.
(Legal disclaimer to the FBI Agent reading this, just in case I have to make this clear: No, I am not a “communist”, as in, I do not support the CCP or similar authoritarian parties, I just support a more egalitarain and democratic society however you want to call that, and my views are 100% compatible with the US Constitution, now fuck off FBI, stop trying to denaturalize me, maybe actualy investigate the traitor in the white house, for fuck sake)
Hear that boys? They mentioned egalitarianism. Round this user up, off to Uganda.
😭
Can we just invite the Trisolarians to get this over with? /j
McCarthyism is probably the most succinct answer. The Cold War directly aligned us against the Soviet Union, and a key means of villainizing the USSR and its citizenry was to paint their core governing beliefs as heretical to the American way.
There is also no doubt in my mind that Socialism’s strong connection to Union activity in the US also incentivized Corporate Barons to lobby against Social Politics hard. I have not seen any specifics about that myself, though. Modern lobbying efforts are well-known, though.
cold war and the red scare once performed never went away
The elites own the media. We’re conditioned from birth to hate SoCiAlIsm/CoMmUnIsm/TaXes/ThEft/Etc. Repeat those terms 100 times a day over a lifespan and it becomes religion for 30% of the population.
If the government spends money on the little people, there’s less money to bail out the Too Big to Fails.
Privatize the gains, socialize the losses. The United States isn’t a country, it’s a corporation with a military.
I’ll just refer you to the above graph. That fear is greater among the elders who grew up in the McCarthy era, and the unfortunates who listen to them.
It depends on how the socialism is used. US corporations, farmers and the fucking MAGAts that abused Payback Protection Program like it a lot.
Socialism is democratic control of the factors of production. Crony capitalists paying each other isn’t socialism.
Umm. Ok. Normally when ppl talk about socialisism they’re usually more talking about state provision of the means to live for those who would otherwise be unprovided for; ownership and control of means of production is generally more associated w/ the word communism. Obvs both big tents, but still, odd defn IMO
Americans are pretty confused but that’s not what socialism means.
Sure, that’s why my phrasing was so specific about ‘usually when people say…’. I acknowledge your point and accept it as correct however.
Supporting the food supply and keeping jobs during COVID are both great examples where the government should step in. The problem is the hypocrisy, when people agree only when it benefits them, only when they can be “takers”.
Even the lack of safety features on the Payback Protection Program were good things - the money got out where it was needed much quicker.
The emergency is past so now we have the opportunity to go back and look for fraudulent use. We have time for the legal system to work. This is the money we need to “claw back”. This is the fraud we need to hunt down. And it’s not enough to just return the money for a free five year loan
fuck that, the government already requires taxes without consent. It should not be allowed to retroactively declare uses of money fraudulent.
As far as I remember a key feature of that program was to say what is was for but then to intentionally not implement bureaucracy to ensure that. If it was always fraud but getting the money out fast was a priority, then yes it’s very much a good thing to go back and rain justice down on cheaters
Did the government just make it rain money on people unprompted or did people fill in forms saying they needed it?
Probably stems from the Red Scare when people were rounded up and jailed/fired/blacklisted/exiled. It became the boogeyman. Through the last couple generations the fear around the word is still there, mostly because we haven’t heard positive things (let alone the truth) about socialist policies in the better part of a century.
What Your saying is socialism, You commie!
at least faux news took the effort of separating communism and socialism, as they often use those terms as they mean the same
“That’s what a dirty commie would say!” shakes athritis-riddled fist in pain
takes arthritis pills covered by medicare
“They don’t want to work! They just want to be lazy!” Proceeds to watch 14 hours of fox news while occasionally napping on the couch.
Of what use, then, are the American Communists?
They serve one function extremely useful to you and to the country, so useful that, if there were no Communists, we would almost be forced to create some. They are a reliable litmus paper for detecting real sources of danger to the Republic.
Communism is so repugnant to almost all Americans, when they are getting along even tolerably well, that one may predict with certainty that any social field or group in which the Communists make real strides in gaining members or acceptance of their doctrines, any such spot is in such bad shape from real and not imaginary social ills that the rest of us should take emergency, drastic action to investigate and correct the trouble.
Unfortunately we are more prone to ignore the sick spot thus disclosed and content ourselves with calling out more cops.
–Robert A. Heinlein, Take Back Your Government
I thought “tankie” was the new “commie” but maybe that’s just for DNC true believers because calling people with even the slightest leftwing ideas or who are skeptical of the political propaganda from the US a “Communist”, is too obvious Red Scare-style Propaganda and unlike the fans of the outright Fascist party, the fans of the Fascism-adjacent party actually care about keeping up appearances.
Plus, this is simply a poll of “what’s your favorability of the word we use to say something is when we don’t we don’t like the thing?”
My friend got cancer and she lost her job. Luckily her parents pay for her insurance out of pocket. Even the treatments are covered, she still needs to pay for copay and deductibles. This is America. When you are down, we kick you further down. No developed country does that except us
but you’re forgetting that the other countries tax you more when you are doing exceptionally. Policies like that lead to meritocracy and reduce everyone’s chances of getting a yacht.
Everyone’s chances of getting a yacht? You mean a small nu.ber of people?
yes, a chance to get a yacht. Similar to how everyone that buys a lottery ticket has a chance to win.
And yet the same people won’t consider living in a better place for some reason.
How can we move? Or roots are here. It is not that easy to move to another country.
Perhaps it will be easily to change people’s mind such as yours
Country depends on immigrant labor, citizens can’t imagine being an immigrant. Checks out.
I’m Canadian. I highly doubt I pay more than $15k in taxes to get my free healthcare.
I bet you get tons of free bonuses too: roads, public education, pensions… Damn, seems like this whole government thing is quite efficient, with the no shareholders taking profits and stuff.
Italian here: 5,000€
European healthcare is something like 6k€ per year and person, the USA is around 14k€ (because leechers and parasites in the system).
Source: some graph on the internet.
We also obviously do mutualise the efforts so even the bum living under the bridge gets the same treatments. We all put in an effort according to what we can, as we are living in a society. What a way to control the masses in the USA. Horrifying.
My insurance premiums are closer to $12,000 a year (basically a hop, skip, and a jump from $1,000 a month).
It certainly isn’t the most expensive plan I found, but it was up there. I knew about all the shitty practices by insurance companies, but I tried to do my research to ensure that my prescriptions and doctors were covered, and I hoped that with a plan this expensive, I might be a bit insulated from the worst of it.
Then I had an emergency. Three things that my insurance did not cover really stood out to me.
The ambulance was considered out of network, so I am on the hook for 100% of the cost. You don’t have any choice about which service picks you up.
The doctor was out of network, so I have to pay 100% of his charges. I know he probably approved my treatment or reviewed my test results, whatever, but I never saw him and the only treatment I received came from the nurses.
I was given 2 ibuprofen. They cost me $45. I was given several different and conflicting reasons why, but ultimately, I’m on the hook for that.
I wouldn’t pay it. As of now, medical debt can’t hurt your credit score. When they send it to collectors, just deny the debt is yours. Refuse to give the collectors any info and don’t accept the debt.
Do you have any sources?
I tried to double check and all i found is that:
The three nationwide credit reporting agencies will generally not report medical debt on your credit report until the debt has been unpaid for at least 180 days (about six months).
I am preparing a pamphlet for getting and navigating US healthcare and that would be an amazing addition.
Apparently, 15 states prohibit it from hitting your credit. I was under the impression that it was nationwide.
By chance do you have a source to this?
It was a law from Biden that went into effect in January but trump had vacated in July, all this year. There’s a lot of confusion on this because of the flip flop.
https://www.nclc.org/resources/dont-add-further-insult-to-injury-medical-debt-credit-reports/
This was the story I saw. I know in my state, it can’t ding your credit.
The US healthcare system is proof that more Mario brothers are required.
the funniest part is that’s not even what socialism is.
“Socialism is when government does stuff like laws and currency.”
“Socialism is when they take some gold from the dragon”
really? i though it was when no iphone. (and sometimes vuvuzela)
Well, it’s not socialism but universal healthcare is a socialist policy and it has been won by various reformist socialist parties in most western countries.
some western countries usually can have such vast welfare state within capitalism because they are still extracting value from their colonies.
Ireland, Poland, Malta, Denmark, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Andorra, Luxembourg and Norway don’t have colonies. And the first three used to be colonies.
some of those you mention engage in imperialism on their neocolonies.
Of course someone from .ml would repeat the same buzzwords without thought.
I know. I came from a post-colonial/neocolonial country. But to treat all Western countries as monolith is utterly ridiculous. It is ironically being racist to dismiss white former colonies as neocolonialist like Poland, Ireland and Malta just because they arw white, isn’t? Frankly, the MLs patronise the global south as if they have no agency in the same way as neoliberal imperialists do. Ask Filipinos and Indians on what they think of CPP-NPA and Naxalites, respectively. MLs would actually get more respect and taken seriously if they aren’t being hypocritical like the neoliberals. ML is just another form of tyranny with a different mask.
of course someone from .world decides to be completely ignorant.
Sure bud.
Uncalled for.
You must be new to dealing with MLs. Nothing “uncalled for” for calling out MLs that keep harping about social democratic countries having neocolonies, when literally these countries have none and some of these countries even used to be colonies.
This is why I want america to be screwed up completely. So Americans wake up and realize what theyve been enforcing on global south for decades.
Its tragic that the only way humans (as a whole) learn is when they themselves suffer.
Currently waiting to begin taking a medication my doctor prescribed because the pharmacy wouldn’t fill it without prior authorization from the insurance company, but to do that, they had to go back to the doctor to request the doctor fill out paperwork to send to the insurer.
During the appointment with the doctor, we already discussed that my insurer likely will not cover the medication, but looked up the retail price, which is not beyond my means or out of scale with the benefit I expect it to bring me. I’m okay paying out of pocket, but my pharmacy is locked into this process that has stretched out over a holiday weekend, so it’s likely I’ll get the medicine a week later than I otherwise would have.
This is more mental health related, and I’m okay physically, but if the blood tests and years of failed approaches from other methods are any indication, then this could show immediate and significant impact.
But I have to wait for the wheels of capitalism to grind on, so they can ensure maximum value extraction from a very expensive insurance policy.Your pharmacy lied. There is no legal requirement to try to bill insurance first they presumably stand in many cases to bill them more especially if you cash paid only after coupons or patient assistance programs which are essentially coupons.
Thus they choose to follow this process and lie to you.
Oh, yeah. They didn’t even give me an option. Not even really a matter of them saying it was legal or anything. It was a quick awkward convo in which they were too rushed to really listen and I was too flustered to really make them.
I’m not all that annoyed at the pharmacy. They are trying to save me money. My comment is really more about how the insurer adds confusion and delays, because of their second guesses, insisting on verifications, etc.
Guess what. I visit my doctor, for free, (or dentist for $$$) they give me a prescription, I go to a pharmacy and give them the slip, they take some time to fill it, explain how to take it, and then I pay a small fee (80% covered by employer health plan at no direct cost to me) and walk away. Canadian healthcare system at work.
Sure, I have to wait sometimes for major surgery based on the triage approach (most serious cases seen first) but it is painlessly easy to get the care I need when I need it. This is how most of the developed world works. Your country is cheating you.
If they don’t cover it, hit up goodRx. My insurance was fucking around with me one month, and I got my lamotrigine down to 20 dollars from 120 dollars using goodRx.
They should get rid of the single largest socialist government expenditure on the planet (the US military) and then tell everyone they need to get Defence insurance.
Please stop saying the military is socialist. Please understand that socialism is about the relationship to the means of production and not just ‘exists because tax’
Capitalism is the best marketing socialism has ever had.
Also, the graphic clearly shows 18 - 29 but Mr. Sauer says “18 - 39.” Let’s socialize the education up in here.
I do like the idea that they went around and asked people their age and if they said over 29 they went nope your opinion is invalid and walked away.
I’m assuming the reason that it’s broken down like this is so they can show generational differences but I have to say I’m in my mid 30s and I’d like some socialism I’m not sure why the cutoff date had to be 29. Are there other slides where this information is provided?
Pretty sure the cutoff age is 29 cause gen z is defined as 1997-2012
Aint no way a third of gen z has favorable views of communism. Maybe this is just my experience living in a red state but I know like 5 people irl who I would say have a favorable view of communism and I either convinced them of it or made an effort to find them through orgs. This is fox trying to scare republicans more than it is truth. I can’t even mention communism to the average person I know without them vomiting American propaganda and thought terminating cliches
Maybe this is just my experience living in a red state
It is
Well thats nice to hear atleast
Communism as a concept, or what the world actually got?
Because those are not the same thing.
No
plansociety ever survives contact with theenemypopulationEither
I’d say they are though. Any theorist would be foolish not to acknowledge emeprical tests of their theory across multiple different conditions imo and readjust their model, but one can argue about this for days.
Except they aren’t tests in a vacuum. They’re tests with the capitalist nations doing everything in their power to ensure they fail.
If you test chemical reactions in the atmosphere you’re likely to get totally different results than if they’re isolated from outside interference.
The only communist countries that had a moderate amount of success were authoritarian dictatorships. That isn’t because it’s required for communism, it’s because that’s what was required to maintain control while the CIA was trying to turn launch a coup. If you didn’t have strict control then you would be couped and it’s over. The same would happen with any for of government with that much pressure trying to collapse them.
Where’s the vacuum you’d like to test it in?
If you can’t test in a vacuum you can’t make a ruling on if it can work. In this case, you need to test in as many conditions as possible to get as representative a sample as possible.
I’m not claiming it should be tested in a vacuum. I’m saying the times it’s been tried were while the US would do everything possible to kill any communist or socialist experiment. We should try more times, and also try to influence the US to not intervene.
It would be pretty stupid to just go off on a theory that wouldn’t consider the rest of the world. Unless this communist society was supposed to exist in a vacuum.
You can’t argue it’s always bad if you only look at it in one situation. You can argue it was bad while the US was ensuring it wouldn’t succeed. That’s a different claim though. Make that claim and you’re fine. Make the claim that it proved communism can’t work and then you’re plainly wrong.
If I had billionaire money, I would buy EVE Online and spin off a project: a set of isolated but mirrored galaxies (shards), each with an enforced economic system. After two or so years, I would then allow players to leave their home servers and interact with the other galaxies, doing trade, politics, and war with each other. After another two years, tally up the player QOL and count for each of the servers to determine which economy was most successful.
That would let us simulate the economies by themselves, then see how they interact on even footing.
I wasn’t the one making the original claim. I’m just saying that if the theory expects a vacuum or zero opposition then it’s a pretty poor theory to follow in real world. More like a hypothetical.
It has nothing to do with communism though. Nothing would survive it. It doesn’t require zero opposition, but any functioning government can’t survive well with most of the world trying to collapse it. With that said, Cuba is doing fairly well despite that.
You should look into leninism, which explicitly does not do that at all. Understanding how global material conditions and economic interests affect the local application of Marxist theory is like the whole point of large portion of what Lenin wrote
Did the bourgeoisie of countries like France and America not do this when they dispensed themselves of the feudal order?
I don’t know what sort of theoretical playbook they were following but seems like that was more succesful
What empirical tests? Just because a politician uses a label doesn’t make it true, usually the opposite in fact. Remember, the Nazi party (the original German one) rose to power by calling themselves socialists.
So you think when they say it now though they mean it?
Cato institute is not a very reliable source imo. Admittedly did not look up this study but this is TV news and they are in the business first and foremost of trying to frighten their viewers (never watch TV news BTW). Fox viewers would be petrified by these numbers. I’m guessing that perhaps a disproportionate portion of the sample was college students, city dwellers or even just people that know how to read. Ie. Not a representative sample most likely. Also, this is not the demographic politicians pay the most attention to.
From the Cato Institute:
“Young Americans Like Socialism Too Much—That’s a Problem Libertarians Must Fix”
Not biased at all! /s
Nothing wrong with the concept of communism. In practice it always leads to authoritarianism, fascism and the loss of personal freedoms. But look at the U.S. as it suffers late stage capitalism with a populist dictatorship growing - it’s exactly the same.
Saying that communism leads to fascism is a silly concept that I don’t feel the need to expand on. All states are authoritarian so I’ll give you that one atleast but I don’t think we can get to a stateless society without a proletarian state in transition. We are never truly free under any state society so yes personal freedoms are restricted but this isn’t unique to socialist societies. The question should be what freedoms are restricted, how are they restricted, and why are they restricted. Personally I believe the freedoms restricted under a socialist state are preferable to the freedoms restricted under a capitalist state. I don’t think people should be free to own private property (property that exist to produce private capital) for instance. I do think everyone should have the freedoms that proper medical care, education, and employment; freedoms which are up for debate under a capitalist state.
I don’t trust the Cato Institute, but Pew Research has some likely more accurate figures, at least for the socialism front, (with what I believe is a larger sample size) showing about 36% overall positive viewings of socialism, with 6% being very positive, and 30% being somewhat positive.
Uh, yes, but… Socialism!!!
