Many people on lemmy.ml deeply respect and admire authoritarian governments and organizations.

Iran, China, North Korea, Soviet Union…

The West has many flaws. But our flaws are nothing compared to these guys.

Iran hangs homosexuals. Iran shot 30,000 people in less than than 2 weeks. The Soviet Union had to build a fucking Iron wall to prevent people from escaping. The Soviets lied about the Chernobyl nuclear explosion. China censors the internet. China wants to eliminate Islam. North Korea is a totalitarian hellscape. Watching anime is a crime.

Why is lemmy.ml so fascinated with authoritarians?

    • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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      The US isn’t authoritarian? Largest prison population on earth, still got slave labor written into the constitution specifically for prisoners, constantly surveilling and imprisoning and killing innocent people, not authoritarian enough for you?

    • wabafee@lemmy.world
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      That hits the point right there, they don’t really know the reality of things that people living in those regime. Since we only see the romantic versions of stories.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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        The romanticised versions are still horrified most people. You have to be seriously deluded to admire these regimes, that said there are plenty that are

  • tymon@lemmy.zip
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    Your post is deeply unserious to the point of seeming like bait, homie

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    our flaws are nothing

    Completely true if you don’t consider Palestinians as equals. Or Vietnamese. Or Koreans. Or Black people. Or Ukrainians. Or women. Or the entire continent of Africa. Or the entire continent of South America. Or the entire continent of Asia.

    Literally unbelievable you’d be saying this during genocide in Palestine and western invasion of Iran.

    • FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
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      Or Sudanese, Kashmiri, or Rohingya people, all of whom are experiencing ongoing genocides sponsored by the same capitalist interests that are murdering Gaza.

      • Riverside@reddthat.com
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        What’s genocide of Gaza nothing compared to? What could possibly be worse than that? What worse than threatening an entire country with “the elimination of a civilization”?

        • brave_lemmywinks@lemmy.world
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          OP didn’t say there weren’t problems in other countries. Also, Israel \ US isn’t “the west”, everyone I know hates that shit and Europe just gets the terrorism end of this bullshit.

          But maybe I can still find equivalents to the Palestinian genocide, in the death famine of all north Koreans, in the genocide of the Uighurs, in the killing of 40k Iranians by it’s own regime.

          Two things can be true.

          • Riverside@reddthat.com
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            Sorry, I think you mean 40 million Iranians, murdered and eaten raw by Ayatollah Khomeini himself.

            Deeply unserious propagandized individual. The reeducation facilities (that’s what they were) in Xinjiang have been closed for 6 years, there was not and there is not any genocide. As for North Korea, they did endure food deficit, you can thank the international sanctions banning food exports to NK for that.

          • freagle@lemmy.ml
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            the death famine of all north Koreans

            My brother in christ. Seriously? Just go read about what the US did to North Korea. The famines in North Korea are squarely the fault of the US. The US literally bombed every single building in North Korea and continued to drop napalm on the country until the people there had to live in caves to not be stuck with flesh burning chemical glue bombs. What the actual fuck?

            the genocide of the Uighurs

            The genocide where the population continued to grow? That genocide? Very interesting genocide that one.

            killing of 40k Iranians by it’s own regime

            It was reported as 30k. In two days. Please, go read something. Anything. Hell, ask a.i. and you’ll be better informed than you are now even if it hallucinates. Israel hasn’t killed 30k in two days and they ghettoized an entire nation and bomb densely populated refugee camps with military planes, tanks, and artillery. There is no way Iranian police killed 30k people in 2 days with small arms fire.

  • jaxxed@lemmy.world
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    It’s not lemmy.ml as a source, but rather a symptom.

    I see two things going on:

    1. A general fall in trust in democratic institutions, as those institutions fail to represent people adequately;
    2. A clear realization of global injustice perpetuated by democratc countries against the will of people.

    There aren’t many that that think that Iran’s goverment is good for Iranian people, but they do see that they are defending their civilization. This umderstanding requires that the observer is able to maintain two observations at the same time, instead of requoring complete black & white intepretations.

    • freagle@lemmy.ml
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      as those institutions fail to represent people adequately

      When have they ever? When black people were slaves? When women couldn’t vote? When marrying a Chinese man removed your US citizenship? When Leopold collected hands? They have NEVER represented the people. They have only ever represented the war mongering mass murdering extractionists and they have created a safe space for white men and those who do their bidding.

      There aren’t many that that think that Iran’s goverment is good for Iranian people

      There are literally millions of people that think Iran’s government is good for Iranian people. And the reason is because the LAST time the Iranian people organized a liberal democracy, it was infiltrated by the West, dismantled, and replaced by an extractivist depotism that did the West’s bidding against the will of the people. This current Iranian government has suffered the worst possible assaults at all levels political, economic, and military from the west for over 40 years and still hasn’t been infiltrated or replaced with Western puppets. This is the choice the Iranian people have - this current form of government or Western domination. The West has demonstrated that nothing else will be allowed.

    • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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      by democratic countries against the will of the people

      Seems like maybe they’re not actually democratic at all

  • Comet79@lemmy.world
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    These people are called “tankies”. It’s communists who like militarism and imperialism, as long as it’s of their own flavor. The internet has many such “bunkers” where these people congregate. They unironically support the countries you mention, and they do not represent the entire left-wing community.

    I’d argue that they aren’t the result of capitalist policies being shitty. Such communities have existed on the internet since the early 00s. It’s just their ideology.

    Why are they on lemmy? My guess is that Reddit banned some of their communities for posting violent content (threats of violence etc.) so they moved to lemmy, which does not censor people to the degree Reddit does.

    The .ml for lemmy.ml supposedly stands for “marxism leninism”.

    • unbuckled_easily933@lemmy.ml
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      lol.

      I joined this instance because I thought that the ml stood for machine learning 🤦🏾‍♀️. However I am an anarcho-communist — mostly because I believe in things like open source and community which are great examples of anarchy and communism together.

    • Riverside@reddthat.com
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      “Everything I consider bad in the world is the fault of those pesky easterners”

      Now please, explain to me how the propaganda apparatus of a decrepit post-soviet nation with an economy the size of Italy has a bigger, more powerful and more pervasive propaganda apparatus than the US empire and the EU together.

      • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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        Now please, explain to me how the propaganda apparatus of a decrepit post-soviet nation with an economy the size of Italy has a bigger, more powerful and more pervasive propaganda apparatus than the US empire and the EU together.

        Easy.

        Propaganda is cheap. Especially in the age of the internet.

        Why build bombs and wage physical war for astronomical amounts of money when you can put some incels in front of a few computers and sow incredible division between the people’s of another nation you don’t like? In that scenario a weaker/poorer nation can absolutely outplay a stronger/wealthier nation.

      • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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        Please tell me how a small group of scientologists have extraordinary influence or a little country like Israel does. Let’s not pretend these things exist or that propaganda isn’t incredibly successful.

        • Riverside@reddthat.com
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          Israel has extraordinary influence because it’s backed by the US, Scientology is also from the US…

          • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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            That wasn’t an answer.

            Edit: for clarification you downplayed Russia’s influence but these even smaller countries and groups also have a disportional ability to disseminate propaganda.

            • Riverside@reddthat.com
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              Scientology is a cult which rich people join because there are other rich people, it’s a manifestation of class power. In the US it’s Scientology, in Spain it’s Opus Dei…

              Israel I did provide an answer for.

                • freagle@lemmy.ml
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                  Why does Israel, that has the 1/4 the economy of Russia, able to effectively disseminate propaganda.

                  Because Israel is funded by the USA and has deep interconnections with USA’s intelligence apparatus. It’s fundamentally integrated into the USA’s propaganda machine and supported by the USA’s vast vast network of intelligence, propaganda, corporate control over the media, and dark money.

                • Riverside@reddthat.com
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                  3 days ago

                  Welcome to Russia.Post, an expert journalism platform of The Russia Program at the George Washington University

                  Hahhaahhahahahahhaahhahahahahahaha

    • Sektor@lemmy.world
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      Back in the day on Reddit it was all about Putin riding a horse and wrestling.

  • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world
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    .ml Is made by and ran by Marxist-Leninists.

    Marxist-Leninism being an entirely made up bullshit ideology from Stalin to paint any and all actions he committed as “communism” or “progress to communism”.

    Its also the adopted “ideology” of every self proclaimed communist state such as China, North Korea, Vietnam, etc. Any contradictions of the ideology between how these states practice it is brushed off by M-L fans as “Marxist-Leninism with <INSERT COUNTRY> characteristics”.

    To a M-L fan, none of the core principles of communism actually matter, and are never actually pursued. They don’t care about::

    1. Proletariat ownership of the means of production
    2. Elimination of the system of Capital
    3. Proletariat rule of society

    And both hilariously and bafflingly, they will point to what benefits a respective M-L country has as “proof” that that country is following or pursuing communism, even if that country blatantly shows it refuses to adopt those big three above. They also blame the West, specifically the USA for those faux communist countries failing to achieve communism.

    I.E. M-L fans fall for bread and circuses very easy as long as they’re told its a communist bread and circus

    So TL;DR, .ml’s are Marxist-Leninists who don’t actually care about socialism or communism and are voluntary NPC propaganda machines for authoritarian regimes that abandoned a pursuit of communism long ago.

    • AskewLord@piefed.social
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      my favorite part was when you pointed out corruption and capitalism so rife in every country that is supposedly communist, they say it’s ‘necessary for the transition’… right.

      some of them are still under the delusion that Russia still a ML state…

      • nymnympseudonym@piefed.social
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        necessary for the transition

        Eerily similar to the MAGAs who are happy to suffer the “temporary” pain of tariffs today, since it’s going to “Make Us Great” in the ill-defined future

        • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world
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          There’s a reason M-Ls are called “tankies” and “red fascists”.

          They just simply are. They are fascists in Che Guevara t-shirts.

          • Tolc@lemmy.world
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            Do anybody care about anarchist/liberal opinion about MLs? ML ideology defeated nazis and has changed landscape of the planet, your ideology is cringe and non existent, keep seething. ML is a science and it will always exist

            • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world
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              Do anybody care about anarchist/liberal opinion about MLs?

              I care more about their opinions on MLs than MLs’ opinions on anything

              ML ideology defeated nazis

              No, it didn’t. Defeat of the Nazis was a collaborative effort between allied nations and factions of varying ideologies, mostly liberal, one made up (Marxist-Leninist)

              Actually, you can credit MLs (especially as its OG was in charge at the time), with severely weakening the Soviet Union with massive purges (including of the military), famine of Ukraine, complete fumbling of preparation for war, and the Nazis almost reaching Moscow until Stalin’s generals begged him just enough to fuck off and let them do their jobs.

              Oh, and let’s not forget the alliance MLs made with the Nazis to take Poland together. Their first instinct was alliance with Nazis. That only changed after Operation Barbarossa.

              and has changed landscape of the planet,

              Yeah, it caused irreparable damage to the communist movement by appropriating it for fascism that pretends to be communist.

              your ideology is cringe and non existent, keep seething.

              1. What is my ideology? Do inform me and provide evidence.
              2. Psychological projection that rivals your average MAGAt

              ML is a science and it will always exist

              FUCKING

              LMAO

              ML wouldn’t even cut it as an art, let alone a science. But I bet the rest of the 13 year olds in your discord server thought that line went hard.

              • Tolc@lemmy.world
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                I care more about their opinions on MLs than MLs’ opinions on anything

                Ofcourse you care about opinion of CIA and global capital ideology

                No, it didn’t. Defeat of the Nazis was a collaborative effort between allied nations and factions of varying ideologies, mostly liberal, one made up (Marxist-Leninist)

                Such a shameless downplaying of sacrifices of soviet people. 80% nazis were killed on eastern front by the red army. Liberals suffered little to no damage in WW2. It was collaborative, sure but the biggest contributors by far were soviets.

                Actually, you can credit MLs (especially as its OG was in charge at the time), with severely weakening the Soviet Union with massive purges (including of the military)

                Debateable to say red army got weak due to purges, alot of counter revolutionaries were purged.

                famine of Ukraine

                not intentional

                complete fumbling of preparation for war

                Who told you that? stalin tripled size of red army in 2 years following the MR pact and shifted industries towards east, they were preparing but they just didnt have enough time.

                Stalin’s generals begged him just enough to fuck off and let them do their jobs.

                Lie.

                alliance MLs made with the Nazis to take Poland together

                No, it was a non aggression pact

                Yeah, it caused irreparable damage to the communist movement by appropriating it for fascism that pretends to be communist.

                I mean no other form of communism has ever been tried and people like you have played whatever the establishment say about communism, the global capital will obviously defame communism, it has done since century but so called people of left has played major role in spreading that narrative too. No other form of communism being tried results to no failures and no challenge to the global capital or status quo, so you can just keep blaming the tankies while the status quo isnt threatned at all. ML is still the morst popular far left ideology, theres a reason for it.

                What is my ideology?

                A radlib or democratic socialist, mamdani AOC type.

                Psychological projection that rivals your average MAGAt

                There is big world outside US politics, get some help.

                ML wouldn’t even cut it as an art, let alone a science.

                lol

                But I bet the rest of the 13 year olds in your discord server thought that line went hard.

                A lot of such parties made by 13 y.o. are at the forefront of communist movement while all you do is larp online

        • Fluke@feddit.uk
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          Or the Brexiteers convinced that the sunlit uplands are just around the corner of the “short term pain” of abandoning the UK’s closest and largest trade partner.

          Fucking morons, happily led around by their prejudices.

        • Tolc@lemmy.world
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          Can you guys ever think out of your american chauvinist mindset? Marxism Leninism exists for more than a century, it has nothing to do with MAGA and have hundreds of pages of theory and have been applied in real life multiple times, atleast think, its crazy how stupid you people are.

      • Tolc@lemmy.world
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        some of them are still under the delusion that Russia still a ML state…

        Literally no sane ML thinks that, russia is a liberal bourgeosie state

  • Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
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    The Soviet Union had to build a fucking Iron wall to prevent people from escaping

    holy fuck lmao

      • Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
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        you really think the Soviet Union made a literal wall out of iron all along its border to keep people inside? you think they built a really big metal wall all along their ~60,000km land borders? 3 times as long as the Great Wall of China?

        are you perhaps confusing this with the berlin wall? or do you think the phrase “the Iron Curtain” was meant very very literally?

        • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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          For what it’s worth, when I read the OP my brain went to the Berlin wall, not the iron curtain. They said “iron wall,” not “Berlin wall” or “iron curtain” so I think there will be a mix of folks interpreting it each way.

  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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    You probably don’t speak any of the languages from the countries you listed. Almost everything that you know about them you’ve learned from “western” sources. You, like many others come to the fediverse and are exposed to counter narratives for the first time in your life. This comes as a shock, and you think that such people must be crazy, paid shills or bots. I encourage you to stick around, and actually read what people are saying.

    Also, don’t mistake nuance for unqualified support. Do I like Iran’s government? No, but that doesn’t really matter. Right now my government (who does far greater harm to the world than any others you mentioned), is killing people there. I know from my experience and knowledge of history, that the US “intervening” is not going to end up improving the lives of the people there.

    • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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      I speak some languages they listed. I lived in some countries they listed. If anything “western sources” often underestimate shit that happened and happens there.
      You probably also don’t speak all those languages and get your sources from narratives that were translated to your language by propaganda wings of those countries.
      You’re not immune to propaganda.

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        I never claimed to be immune. What I’m saying is that if you spend your whole life enconsed in a bubble of all-pervasive propaganda, don’t be so dismissive when you finally encounter perspectives and information from outside that narrative.

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          Conversely, when you grew disillusioned with your own bubble, and encountered propaganda from “the other side”, don’t immediately trust them. Two things can be true or false at once. Two terrible things can be terrible differently.

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            Sure, but I really don’t think that’s what this is about. As I said, we have a lot of westerners here who are unaccustomed to information from outside their gov approved narratives. Swinging wildly the other way (at least temporarily) is probably healthy and reasonable. Throwing up your hands and saying “both sides bad” while conveniently sharing a POV with the US state department really isn’t.

            • LogicalFallacy@lemmy.zip
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              I’d like to think I have the ability to hate both equally, even though they’re each distinctly evil and wrong.

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                I don’t know. I’ve seen way too many times how ‘both-sidesing’ ends up benefiting the main villain. I think that you don’t realize that your consent is being manufactured. What good does it do for a US citizen to criticize the government of Iran, at a time when our government is waging an illegal war on them? It only furthers the propaganda narrative that our military actions are justified in some way. Whatever crimes they have committed there pale in comparison to the crimes committed by the US-- one of a very short list of countries that Westerners have any business criticizing.

  • Muehe@lemmy.ml
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    Well I can’t speak for others, but I’m on lemmy.ml because the instance says it’s “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers”. And in my experience that pretty much checks out, for all the talk I see from others about how it’s a den of authoritarianism and whatnot the actual amount of that I see on the actual instance is minimal. Yeah moderation sucks sometimes, but so it does on most every other instance though. Their approach to defederation seems to be avoiding it, and I don’t have to see any Nazi stuff or shit like that, so I’m good for now. Pick your poison.

    The West has many flaws. But our flaws are nothing compared to these guys.

    Well if you look a bit closer at the history of the cold war you will find that “the West”, mostly in the form of the CIA, destroyed a lot of nascent communist or even just social democratic governments worldwide through covert means, and sometimes even militarily. In the face of such a threat you are basically forced to become even more authoritarian, if you want your communist government to survive that is. So “the West” instituted a process of selection through political (and military) pressure if you will. Hence why there are no surviving liberal communist states left to discuss.

    Anyway, I don’t think there is much of consensus here on lemmy.ml whether these countries are good or bad (or even something more nuanced). What I think often happens is that someone voices “critical support”, as in they say something like “Iran has a right to self-defence” although they don’t agree with everything else Iran does, and someone from another instance comes along to read it and confirmation-biases that into “typical lemmy.ml user, fully supports that theocratic regime”.

    I mean just look at the straw man you build in your OP, supposedly I’m supporting the Islamic regime in Iran, and the anti-Islamic regime in China!? Bit of a stretch there mate…

    • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      You haven’t been paying attention then. Dessalines, the head admin, regularly instance bans people for speaking about the genocide in China in .ml communities.

      • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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        There is no genocide in China, people with far more credibility on the topic than any westerner have investigated in person, you should try listening to them

          • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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            Jesus fucking christ, seriously? Your counter to “the majority of muslim nations on earth convened to investigate these accusations in person and dismissed them entirely” is a cartoon? And not just any cartoon, but a patronizingly simplistic cartoon depiction of fantasy asia in which fantasy China is using literal mind control? You’re trying to argue against observable reality by pointing to a racist caricature in a show for children, truly astounding.

      • Muehe@lemmy.ml
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        I mean I have seen that accusation thrown around a lot, but from what I remember it was a few cases a long time (years?) back. But yeah to be honest I haven’t really been paying attention, so if you have evidence to the contrary feel free to let me know. The goals and rules of the server as stated seem fine to me, and I haven’t seen anything that really deviated too far from that.

        Anyway, like I said I may not agree with every moderation decision, but I probably wouldn’t on other instances either. Didn’t your instance just defederate the Germans for their heavy-handed moderation of anything remotely antisemitic? I mean I would get it with any other instance I guess, but your users didn’t get why the Germans would be a bit iffy with this stuff?

        • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          This is part of why ml users get a bad rap. Both of your core statements/assumptions here are false, to a degree that it would be easier to assume bad faith and move on with my life than to type this response up.


          So Dessalines’s continued and ongoing banning of any negative talk about China or Russia:

          I’m not a particular fan of !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works, but what I see when I look at that community for the past month is mostly a running log of questionable at best bans that lemmy.ml admins, including Dessalines, have handed out.

          I picked out some that stand out to me, but please peruse that community and your own instance’s mod logs at your leisure. You should be able to filter the mod logs themselves by action, and I believe by the mod or admin that took the action.

          That poster clearly has a bone to pick, and that community does especially, but there is a concerning pattern there as well.


          Didn’t your instance just defederate the Germans for their heavy-handed moderation of anything remotely antisemitic?

          That is… quite an interpretation of what happened. Anti-semitism is not tolerated on db0. You see it, go report it and tell us what happens. Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism.

          From the db0 admin team’s mouths, their take on what happened: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728


          Funny enough, they don’t look kindly on Meanwhile on Grad/MoG. And I downvoted that post, voting that I did not want to defed from feddit.

        • Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          4 days ago

          You seem way too knowledgeable about lemmy sever bans and federations for being “just some casual ml dude”.

          Defending the TERF dessalines too … Bravo

    • CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.today
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      I had my first account on .ml because “hey this is the official instance run by the devs, that sounds like a solid starting point” but after seeing how strong the anti-west, pro-authoritarian nonsense is on there (especially leading up to the 2024 election, the apathetic “both sides” people were out in full force), I decided to move to a different instance.

      • Muehe@lemmy.ml
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        4 days ago

        I’m not denying that there are such people around, but I don’t really think they are in the majority. Most of the specific things you mention I saw coming just as much if not more from other servers.

    • uenticx@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts

      An admin over there literally tried to dox me and deleted any trace of it within a few hours. No. You are not safe visiting lemmy.ml lol

      Using this post as a honeypot for my blocklist. We need a fresh post like this every month.