The sequels aren’t bad because they’re woke (are they woke, though?), they’re bad because they’re bad.

For example, I think Daisy Ridley played the part very well, and the character fit in the overarching universe. But the plot was awful and predictable.

And somehow Palpatine returned.

EDIT/ADDITION for emphasis: I loved the acting. Especially Finn. I didn’t find Kylo Ren to be a believable character, but Adam Driver did a great job regardless. Everyone did a great job with Ep VII, except the writers and Disney execs.

Obligatory “just watch Andor” comment.

Seriously. Go and watch Andor. It proves that good Star Wars content can be made. It has a diverse cast. You just need good writing and a vision. That’s what’s missing from the new content.

The new show isn’t great for reasons other than Disney being woke.

For as schlocky of an adventure the OT and Prequels were, they still drew on real world inspirations. The OT pulls inspiration from WW2 and the Vietnam War as the backdrop, a small rag Tage group of guerilla style freedom fighters fighting off the highly militarized empire with weapons that can destroy entire jungles I mean planets in its path.

The Prequels, for as bad as the dialoge was (because Lucas was surrounded by Yes Men instead of people who actually knew how to cover his weaknesses), was about the decadence of the 80s and the exploitation of the labor of 3rd world countries (see the disparity between Anakin being a slave on Tatooine and Padme being a queen of/senator for Naboo), in phandom menace, which quickly shifted focus to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and how republics, like the Roman Republic, and Weimar Republic became the Roman Empire and Nazi Germany, and how America was following the same path.

And this isn’t really some reading between the lines speculation, George Lucas has said that these real world conflicts served as inspiration for the movies. Could it be post hoc rationalization? Yeah it could be, but it’s kinda hard to make those justifications even years after the movies have been released.

The sequels just aren’t pulling from any relevant sources. It was all nostalgia bait without any substance the first order is literally just Hugo boss wearing good stepping nazis 2.0, aka The Empire Again, the New Republic narratively exists only to be blown up by The Empire 2.0, everything is “Look its just like the Original Trilogy!” and it all lacks a cohesive vision and an actual hero’s journey for someone to go through. Like everyone has great setups, a rogue stormtrooper, an ace pilot for the rebellion and a girl who survived childhood gathering scrap from dangerous derelict. And they just all get sidelined for all the nostalgia bait.

The original trilogy was hero’s journey stuff, mythology for a modern age. Episode 6 was the weakest, though.

The prequel trilogy was an envisioned world - for all of its writing weaknesses, it felt like a living, breathing universe.

The sequel trilogy was lifeless. 7 was an okay start, and I actually quite enjoyed it despite being derivative, but 8 was muddled trash (how many times did Poe commit mutiny while they were doing the slow-mo chase?) and 9 was dreadfully mediocre.

And this is coming from someone who loves many of the spin-off media on their own merits, many even more than I love the prequel trilogy.

It’s not nostalgia. Some of us just genuinely dislike how shit the sequel trilogy was, and how bad they did our boy John Boyega after episode 7.

Star Wars isn’t bad because of “woke” inclusivity. It’s bad because the people who were supposed to be responsible for carefully curating and engineering both the past and future lore of the universe were at the very best taking a maverick approach to storytelling and at worst actively trying to to sabotage the canon for the sake of their own selfish artistic pursuits.

I don’t dislike the nu-trilogy because it makes an effort to include women and minorities in leading roles. I dislike it because it’s an incoherent mess of a story that doesn’t mesh at all with what came before it, and the only thing holding it together is the veneer of Star Wars, but only the parts that made Star Wars iconic and not necessarily the ones that made Star Wars good.

No I miss old star wars content. Specifically where Luke and Leia make out and where exactly George was going with that shit.

Jokes aside, pronouns is the dumbest possible hill to die on with regards to the starwars universe. OF COURSE gender is going to work differently when you put a bunch of wildly different species together. Gender dimorphism is not some universal rule the rest of the galaxy has to follow. Hell, sexual dimorphism isn’t even universal ON EARTH. why the fuck wouldn’t you run into a them or xir every now and then? What about those bug people from clone wars? You think bug people are gonna have mommies and daddies or what?

Why does every idiot who is not a Star Wars fan think that repeating the normie stereotype about it is very smart? Which is this pic BTW.

Star Wars since the OT and till around 2006 had very clear borders between, 1, that which doesn’t get mentioned, but follows from what’s shown, 2, that which doesn’t get explained, 3, that which is explained by magic, 4, that which has decent, but very roughly cut sci-fi descriptions and, finally, 5, that which is taken seriously.

Disney doesn’t understand how to use any of these categories, especially that core plot points can only belong to #5, that #1 is not just fan imagination, but part of the paradigm, that #2 is not a box for everything lazy, that #3 cannot be center of the plot, and that #4 is still necessary.

I just wanted to see Luke in the role of obi wan or Yoda after decades of Jedi training be a hero and pass on his legacy by training the next generation. But I would have been ok with one heroic lightsaber battle, and a reunion with han, chewy and Leia.

Watching the last Jedi and seeing someone who tossed his blade away because he saw the good in essentially “Space Hitler” try to kill his own nephew because he was having a nightmare so out of character. Then having him overdose on the force and die like a chump, broke me. I left the theater in silence. The last Jedi is also the only star wars movie with out a light saber fight. No blades ever touched.

Why do people defending Star Wars keep shitting on sci-fi and fantasy? “It’s just a movie about space wizards with laser swords” they say, as though having fantastical elements negates all criticism.

The original trilogy isn’t schlock. It’s fun, relatively lighthearted adventure in a fantastical setting. It has its flaws, but there is genuine artistry there, and it resonates with people because of that.

And even if I am looking at classic Star Wars through nostalgia goggles, that doesn’t invalidate criticism of new Star Wars stuff. Rise of Skywalker is a train wreck of a movie all by itself, no comparison needed.

Star Wars is now the schlocky, uninspired, cheesy “sci-fi” that the original Star Wars killed by changing the whole genre back in 1977. It’s time that the next George Lucas emerges and ends the travesty that is Disney SW. I don’t see it happening with the risk-adversity of modern Hollywood.

I do miss being younger and happier.

Solo had L3-37 who was presented as being a self made individual literally and she was also humanized with her body and movement being less stuffy and robotic and more human. I remember people complaining she was woke.

Maybe it’s woke to advocate for someone having equal rights or wanting to be viewed equal to people when the story presents her as someone who is self-aware, capable of emotions, and desires freedom. She certainly uses a lot of terms that I guess people who are worried about wokeness might find off-putting.

BUT, here’s the thing most of the time when she says that she wants fair treatment or equal rights it’s presented as a joke. Even her losing her body and the ability to freely move and pursue her own goals is treated as something of a happy ending. Remember the whole movie where she said she wants freedom and autonomy and how she’s a self made droid? Well now she’s shackled inside a computer with no ability to escape, but it’s a happy ending because the audience wasn’t meant to take her seriously.

So in that the context of Solo the people who were complaining about wokeness were missing the forest through the trees, when the only messaging that could really be considered “woke” was something that was treated as a joke in the movie. I wouldn’t be surprised if people complaining about wokeness are just people who are upset if minorities or gay people exist and they use the term to hide behind and avoid outright saying it

(I’m aware that there’s more Star Wars than just Solo, but I haven’t seen all the new stuff and was mostly using it as an example)

Science fiction is primarily a form of social critique and commentary, according to the Titan, Professor Isaac Asimov.

Coming from a childhood raised in the deeply conservative Southeastern USA, SW felt like a validation of belief in religious magic, patriarchal paternalism, and accessible exceptionalism from hard work.

Before the information age, these ideas were far less clearly false. Now I see the parallel in religion as a toxic dead mythos, misogyny in western culture, and propaganda of a feudal death of democracy.

While I long for the nostalgia of the past, shinning a more modern perspective on that past reveals hideous flaws. The framework is dead to me, but admitting such a reality to myself is to give up a part of my childhood.

Bold of you to assume we were ever happier.