Similar vibes than Reddit api pricing
Fuck Elon. Fuck Tesla.
I was their target demographic and Elon made sure that I never even consider their trash. I went BMW instead.
This is why Elonia is asking trump to impose tariffs on Canada and Mexico. Other car manufacturers started biting into Tesla market share this year.
Poor Queen Elonia.
He want to add tarrifs and he is also asking Trump to remove government subsidies on new EV purchases, raising the barrier to entry in the US for EVs
There’s no way he’s asking for that. If you can find a source for that claim I’d love to see it. But it’s about the dumbest thing musk could do.
Wow… Well I maintain that is about the dumbest thing he could do, but I apologize for doubting you.
It’s a good way to make money by shorting his competitors’ stocks.
never owned a BMW, or a Tesla for that matter, but I’ve heard they’re just as bad when it comes to being money hungry
There is no such thing as a benevolent corporation. Don’t feed the fascists. Don’t give your money to Elon.
EDIT: Autocorrect derp
I mean, fuck Elon and Tesla but if you’re spending money on a car you’re giving it to a bastard one way or another. The CEOs of Ford, BMW, et. al. might not be making asses of themselves on the global stage, but I’m sure they’re still horrible. Even used cars run on gas 99% of the time.
There are levels of bad. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good (or in this case, only slightly better).
A friend bought a new BMW. Everything is controlled with an app. There’s also an interface in the car itself, obviously, but the app has more functions.
Things like seat heating, air conditioner, enhanced cruise control and all the fancy things are only available if you subscribe to one of the three offerings.
I just glanced over the app, so i don’t remember the names, but it went like the usual: basic, premium, platinum.
Prices were in the range of 200, 400, 700 euros a fucking month.
Yeah choosing BMW is a strange choice against something like Tesla when they are doing the same sort of thing. I won’t criticize the “I’m rich so I bought an expensive car” thing, that can happen elsewhere, but the idea that BMW is the lesser of the evils isn’t really accurate.
I wish we were in a world where we could more easily avenge our terrible upbringing in this system moment after moment like Geralt, where if we’re to choose between the lesser of two evils, we’d rather not choose at all.
Are you saying that you can’t use the A/C without subscribing to their app?
That is correct, but at least BMW knows how to make decent cars that won’t trap you in in an emergency.
That BMW iDrive looks good but if it’s all app and touchscreen based… Imma skip.
TBH though, all the damn nice EVs are touch screens or bubble crossovers.
Why the fuck do I want to drive a bubble. I want to drive an electric car. Take the Ford Mustang, put the electric parts in it, and don’t turn it into a crossover. Take the Toyota 86, put electric parts in it. Do not turn it into a cross over.
Idk take any fucking car that looks like a fun car and goddamn it, put electric parts in it, don’t add touchscreens, and don’t stick your lips on the wand of soap and blow into the frame making it a goddamn bubble crossover.
Ioniq 6.
I went Audi but to be completely honest Hyundai and Kia make the best EVs.
I needed a single payment lease and BMW does those with zero hassle.
BMW does have shady monetization tactics with their newer car, but Subaru shred almost every other car brands to dust
Are Subaru cars still loud AF? I had a 2002 Impreza, and a 2012 and both had lots of road noise with everything in the car popping or cracking with every bump.
Okay that’s not just me, thank god. I thought something was just wrong with the sound deadening on my Forester, especially because my 30 year old Mazda 323 is at least 50% quieter. Nope, its what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.
Of course, and that’s part of the charm. They bag out like a pair of leather slippers. I read something recently about them using a shit ton more adhesive in the new Forester so maybe it’s improving? My 2015 isn’t that bad, but I hate driving in general so basic appliance standards is fine by me.
Did u have to unlearn how to use an indicator?
Isnt that a mandatory class before they let u buy one?
You know I haven’t been to a dealership yet to find out.
How is it driving without turn signals? Granted, given they put them as buttons on the friggin steering wheel in the new Teslas, maybe not much different?
I am sad to say that the old joke is becoming obsolete. These new cars are smart. If you try to change lanes without a turn signal, the car beeps loudly to tell you that you have drifted. Our company also has a Sprinter van that will actually pull you back into your lane. Sad times.
Turn signals aren’t for you, they’re for other drivers. I can’t hear the other car yelling at their driver, I just see them decide to cut into my lane with no warning or signal.
I thought BMW wanted a subscription for heated seats. You know, the seats already in your car but software locked with a paywall.
Similar vibes than Reddit api pricing
Reddit got the idea from Elon’s twitter API fees. This is Elon being consistent(ly terrible).
API pricing is such a shitty obnoxious dogshit practice that is now of course becoming standard because of course it is. internet barely costs money come the fuck on make a quality product
It used to be a respected standard for developers and hosts to be somewhat open and friendly to 3rd party devs, because ultimately they’re customers and they’re helping recruit and retain customers, they should be treated with respect. just because it’s innovative and disruptive to invent the machine gun doesn’t mean it’s good
The internet (ie bandwidth) is cheap, but running servers, providing documentation and tech support all costs a decent amount of money.
However, treating an API as a profit center is a joke. These are literally companies developing software that makes the experience of owning a Tesla better. Making things unaffordable for those companies is putting short term profits over long term success of your product
But 90k is nothing to Tesla, it’s just a paywall to keep the third party devs put while being able to claim to be open
while being able to claim to be open
Marketing is happy while dafdy gets to squeeze
Anyway, look at their actions, not their propaganda
just because it’s innovative and disruptive to invent the machine gun doesn’t mean it’s good
That’s a great Maxim.
I didn’t think there would be a pun in there but, man, you found it! 👍
Well, I am a Prodigy at that sort of thing!
I have the slightest bit of sympathy. So many companies got their shit scraped and fed into AI models. They lost out. They’re afraid it will happen again.
They didn’t lose anything, that’s our data.
I mean, I get your point, that’s why I said “slightest”. I’m basically just saying I understand their perspective.
Something to note: Tesla has two vehicle APIs, the Fleet API for commercial accounts and the Owner API for individuals. This change currently only impacts the Fleet API.
If you are an individual owner who accesses your vehicle data from the Owner API (usually via a self hosted tool like TeslaMate), this does not affect you. Yet.
I’m not a developer, so excuse me if this is a dumb question. Is the API supplying data that is provided by the OBDII interface? Or is it more than that?
There is most likely an overlap on what you can get from the OBD port, but generally speaking the API will provide more high level info e.g driving status, mileage, live location - and the OBD port will provide more low level data e.g. detailed battery stats from the BMS, energy usage, etc.
I see. Thanks.
Hey kid, don’t waste your breath defending corporations. You will end up being wrong in the end, and before that you just look like a fool.
Highlight where in the above post I am defending anything.
Isn’t it tacitly defending this pricing model?
I’ve worked in commercial environments where we’ve had the rug pulled on us in exactly this manner.
Sure today Tesla isn’t charging you, but the moment it is expedient for them, they will.
A lot of users here will have had the same experience with Reddit – it’s not unprecedented.
Not at all.
Lemmy is overwhelmingly militantly anti-Tesla, which is understandable considering who owns it, but it does mean that users tend to interpret any neutral or factual statements (basically anything that is not outright criticism) as having a pro-Tesla bias.
In this case, all I am stating is the fact that this specific change currently only affects corporate users. That could of course change in the future.
There is a rich history of cloud based data providers pulling the rug from under users with no warning. Look at what happened to Nest users when Google took over.
Providing and clarifying information isn’t automatically defending something.
Another reminder to developers to not bother with public APIs, just screen-scrape or reverse-engineer the official app private API.
Really the lesson is, don’t run a business that 100% depends on another company.
This. It’s a recipe for disaster. I think enough (tech-related) companies have shown now, that they first want to lock you in, and then if they got you, want to bleed you out…
Virgin API user vs chad scrapper.
Then you’re at risk of getting sued for cracking the encryption or the API breaking constantly
The real reminder is don’t integrate with devices which you can’t trust
Yeah guys. Downvote me. This is literally part of my day job.
In our industry we call not using an official API a dumpster fire API. Because more than once it has completely broken eventually, and there are a few manufacturers warned will break in the upcoming future
Is it illegal to scrape? I mean most companies and governments scrape huge amounts of data all the time without getting anyones permission, hell the entire business of a search engine is basically WeScrape4U.
If you extract a key from a proprietary client to decrypt a private API, it definitely is illegal. If you do this as a corporation, it would also be easy to detect by abnormal usage patterns tied to your account and presents you as a nice big set of pockets to get sued.
Just screen scraping isn’t illegal, but is fragile as fuck and will break at the worst time and you have no ability to implement version control to manage it.
Personally I wouldn’t want to be the guy forced to write scrapers with how much they break on any modern site
Its Tesla; y’all should be dumping that shit anyway.
So musk pulled a Reddit spez?
Not surprising as musk is a scammer who got incredibly lucky, always has been.
Fuck spez and fuck musk
It’s only going to get worse year over year as we move towards a dystopian corporation ran future.
The U.S. leading the pack on testing how much a rich person can get away with while directly interfering with a d profiting from the government, which is funded by the people.
It’s just another grift, but this time in the open, corporate sponsored politicians being elected as presidents is going to become the norm. The only thing it takes is money to influence an undereducated populace.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
Or until the populace gets smarter.
No sign of that happening yet, especially with the results of a certain election in a certain country.
The only thing it takes is money to influence an undereducated populace.
We got the government the average person deserves…
Didn’t they already do this with Xitter?
.
Awesome username!
I’m surprised devs didn’t see the writing on the wall after Twitter all but murdered its API
Wasn’t that still Dorsey twitter though?
I could swear it was too, but I double checked before the comment.
Elon closed the deal on Oct 28, 2022 according to Wikipedia, and the first API woes I remember was the killing of third-party clients, which happened in Jan 19, 2023
When Twitter (and Reddit) pulled this off, I was just mildly pissed. Can’t do interesting things with my data, oh no.
…Image that, except it’s an expensive luxury car you’re no longer allowed to do interesting things with.
Reminds me of the Fall Out Boy song “Dead on Arrival”.
Or, one of the original punk bands, DOA
Or the old saying “Dead on Arrival”
One more reason I’m glad I bought a car with CarPlay / Android Auto support.
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CarPlay allows third party maps for sure.
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I’m confused. Non google maps can run on Android auto and can even run on the Home Screen view. Same for CarPlay and alternatives to Apple Maps.
I’m not sure what exactly the previous commenter said but map apps in particular only show up if installed through the Play Store. I found that out after trying to get Organic Maps working through F-Droid and Aurora Store. If you’re rooted you can change the app’s ‘installed from’ field to the Play Store and it will show up.
My guess is that Google, like Apple, it’s pretty nervous about letting developers go crazy with UIs that are used while driving.
I know that, for CarPlay, the approval process is more ridged than with a mobile or desktop app.
My guess is that Google and Apple don’t want to be found liable for dangerous / distracting technology.
Its only “Navigation” apps though, media and messaging apps work just fine in Android Auto from another source or sideloaded.
Interesting. TIL.
Damn that’s crazy I didn’t realize my third party map app was actually just Google maps
Hehehe, we all know how that’s like. I’m sure this income will truly be used to improve their services and support robust and reliable API infrastructure.
There’s no laws against profiteering?
Tesla is an American company, in Texas, at that.
It wouldn’t matter if there were.
Imagine trying to sell cars and then pulling some shit like this
What’s the data? The article says the app was fleet management? So location and remote opening doors or something?
I use an app called Tessie. It’s $5 a month for the rest of my life but i do like it . Keeps track of battery usage, trips, and links to Alexa.
Gotcha - I guess I’m still not following though. Twitter and Reddit upped API fees because the data could be used to train LLMs.
Obviously if you had access to everyone’s driving/Tesla data - that’d be valuable - but I am assuming the API data is only for the owners using these the apps like you mentioned.
Is the data available across all users or are they prepping to release some kind of anonymized user data?
I can’t eee how blocking API use helps train LLMs.
Even if the users has a 3rd party app, it’s still making the API calls, so whatever data is already on the server side.
I think you might be misinterpreting me.
Most of these apps run via the app providers servers. So while each subscriber provides an apikey that only gets data on their car(s), the app provider can save every single api response and whatever they want with it.
Why Alexa?
Other than that, a $1 notepad and a pencil will do usage tracking just fine for years. You can’t take a trip unless you’re already sitting in the car where you can see and write down the info.
I’ve decided that we were just fine without the internet, please send your comment to me via written correspondence, since you have your notepad ready anyway.
The internet allows us to communicate quickly over distances we couldn’t otherwise without a long time between messages. What does this app do that I can’t do cheaper and easier with pencil and paper?
I’m not opposed to technology, but I’m not paying for it if there’s no benefit.
