I get that it’s a meme, but what’s the problem? I’m vegetarian/flirt with veganism; it’s purely for moral/ethical/environmental reasons.
Indian food is delicious. An Impossible burger on a pretzel bun dripping with grilled onions, avocado, vegan aioli and mustard with a side of steak fries? That’s also delicious, in my opinion.
Meat is delicious, and that’s not at all incompatible with my reasoning for being vegetarian.
Aioli is naturally vegan. Classically, it’s just garlic paste and oil. Flavoring mayo with garlic is not supposed to be called aioli.
Try making the proper kind. You’ll be impressed.
Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes. But I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether. If you keep relying on meat substitutes, you haven’t let go of meat entirely, I found it easy to get back to meat eating.
You’re chatting out your ass, this is like saying lesbians shouldn’t use dildos in case they go back to fucking men
Complete ignorance of the thing you’re talking about
Keep it civil please.
Here’s some civility for ya: Go fuck yourself.
Sorry but that’s a ban. I’ll make it a temp ban this time, but please don’t do this again or I’ll have to make it permanent.
Is this kindergarten
No. What makes you feel like you’re in kindergarten?
👆🤓
KeEp It CiViL PlEaSe
Please shut the fuck up. You don’t get to push your shit takes and then chide anyone who doesn’t agree with your braindead bullshit.
How fucking thick can you be
You first
Keep your dick civil you ignorant tankie fuck
Bravery has nothing to do with it. It tastes good, and there’s no harm to any animals. So why not eat it? Denial for the sake of denial is not a virtue.
If you keep relying on meat substitutes, you haven’t let go of meat entirely, and it would be easy to get back to meat eating.
That’s like saying that if you enjoy shooting people in video games, then you’re one step away from shooting people in real life. I’ve been eating fake meats for almost a decade now, and I’ve never been tempted to eat real meat.
I know how horrible and senseless factory farming is, and I have images of the slaughtered seared into my memory from vegan documentaries. Why would I go back to that when I can have substitutes that are just as good, if not better?
I can’t really answer the question of why, but the sample set of people I know who switch to vegetarianism and veganism bears out that the ones who rely in fake meats much more frequently switch back than those who focus on learning to cook foods that don’t imitate meat.
On the counterargument, I did miss cheese quite a bit, and learning to culture my own vegan cheeses hasn’t led to buying animal milk cheeses again, so ymmv
Your anecdote is meaningless as your sample size is not statistically significant.
It wasn’t meaningless, and I went out of my way to make clear the sample size wasn’t statistically significant.
The point was that the parent comment implied there was no reason to start eating meat again after making a moral choice not to. My anecdote shows that some people do anyway, therefore there must be a reason.
That in my experience they tended to be the people who relied on meat substitutes was presented as an observation of interest, not as hard evidence of universal truth.
Who cares for bravery? Avoiding meat is avoiding meat. Crazy strawman.
So your whole point is a slippery slope fallacy. Gotcha.
Being called stupid and criticizing my decisions kept me from “being brave”
Like “You’re not good enough until you are this much” bullshit. If that’s the attitude, then fuck no. Why do I wanna go even further into things if y’all are assholes right off the bat. Like, no. fuck you. If it’s this complicated then I am going to do what has been a life of hassle free eating. My guilt is very easily wiped away like that.
I’m vegan and I eat plenty of fake meat. I’m vegan because I think it’s right, not because I dislike meat. Don’t listen to OP. You are good enough, and any reduction in the consumption of animal products is better than no reduction.
I went through a long period of transition before cutting out animal produce entirely, but have now been vegan for a good few years.
I went through a long period of transition before cutting out animal produce entirely, but have now been vegan for a good few years.
This is the way. It’s like a relationship: if you have to force it, it’s gonna be shit.
I cut down on meat significantly in the past 3 years. I eat mostly vegetarian, fish once a week and meat every once in a while. Overall, my meat consumption decreased by about 90% which I call good enough and I don’t really have the intention to change that.
I’ve been talking a bunch of shit out of annoyance. And there’s a bunch of posts echoing exactly what I was complaining about.
Even getting called a liar.
This is the only reasonable or polite response I’ve seen. Missed one maybe?
So thanks. I really shouldn’t be painting the entire lifestyle with the same brush, because well here we are.
So I’ll shut up, and say thanks. And for the record, my kid still makes me get the impossible patties. She’s not veg anything, so ita just cause they’re good and that on its own should be good enough. Not all is lost in my removed.
Yeah same here. I like fake meat. I mean, if it tastes good and has no animal parts in it, it goes into my mouth. It’s not that complicated.
I don’t think meat substitutes is is the major problem to worry about. In fact, perhaps they could help?
https://plantbasednews.org/opinion/do-84-vegans-and-vegetarians-give-up-diets/
If I’m at a barbecue and someone is grilling up impossible burgers, I’m not going to request they instead make a bowl of curry for me. Likewise when I grill for people.
Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes
That’s good.
I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether
That’s bad.
Now, firstly, thank you for defining a lot of people cowards.
Secondly, while I like indian food, I like meat more. And I liked it since forever. If I can have the delicious taste of meat in my plate without killing an animal, that’s great. Fantastic! I’m eagerly waiting for lab crafted meat any day. I’m willing to pay it more than real meat, because I’m not fond of killing living beings to eat them. But if that’s not yet possible, I’d still have my steak and my hamburger.
You don’t make friends with
saladthat attitude.Right so, I have literally never eaten meat in my life. I was raised vegetarian. I still think plant based burger patties or sausages or whatever are delicious. Its literally just food. You gonna think that I’m “relying” on meat substitutes or “haven’t let go of meat entirely” when I haven’t even eaten meat before? :P
Just let people enjoy things! Plant based “meat” doesn’t hurt anyone and its a great option to add to your choices of meals.
A lot of Indian cooking is vegetarian, not vegan. Ghee is very often used.
And paneer.
Not quite the same, but if you want to replace ghee with something vegan, try avocado or coconut oil. There is vegan ghee (made from palm oil I think?) but it’s bad for you the same way old timey margerine is bad.
Incidentally, unprocessed red palm oil could be a nice replacement, but it has a characteristic earthy/almondy taste. I love it on fish dishes but it’s not the taste you expect from Indian food I think.
“I fucking love Ghee, it’s like freebasing butter” - Malcolm Tucker
Don’t forget cow piss
I’m vegetarian. Western food is so focused on meat that people often have no idea how to make a meal that doesn’t contain it. My mother once asked me how to make a vegetarian version of Chicken Parmesan. So keep the tomato sauce, cheese, and spices, but swap out the chicken with pasta. Congrats you’ve made vegetarian Chicken Parmesan. I like to call it Spaghetti.
I’d swap the chicken for eggplant personally.
What was first, the eggplant or the chickenplant?.. 😛
I think that speaks to OP’s point: instead of thinking in terms of trying to replicate the meat dish without meat, think in terms of making a vegetable dish that satisfies the same mood.
It’s just funny that someone was looking for a meatless chicken parm because the original recipe was eggplant parm, just someone thought it would be better with meat.
90% of “vegetarian versions” of dishes are just the dish without meat. 9% of the remainder are the dish with black beans and/or mushrooms
I mean personally I’d sub it in for something with some protein, though you definitely don’t need nearly the amount you get from a piece of meat.
And there’s a lot of alternatives for many different prices. I remember how people used to berate me for being vegetarian while growing up, telling me I’d die and whatnot.
Still here, after nearly thirty years.
You need it.
Maybe you do.
and people get so pissy about like ‘where is muh serving of protein??’ like just because you saw an infograph as a child doesn’t mean you have to have a hunk of a living creature every meal
You should still be eating protein…
You know what has protein? Every whole plant food. You don’t need a dedicated part of a meal that is high in protein when the whole meal contains protein.
That’s delusional.
Different plants have different macros. Ofc there are plants with high protein but don’t go around spouting carrots and fruit are a balanced diet. You need beans, legumes, nuts, etc.
There’s nothing childish about paying attention to macros. If you’ve ever spent time doing any programmed exercising that includes making linear progress, you know the difference protein can make. And it’s hard to achieve even when you’re not extremely limited in ingredients.
I’m not knocking vegan or vegetarian diets. Just saying it’s not at all easy, and that protein matters a lot.
Also most vegetarian Indian food is absolutely loaded with butter/ghee. It’s not “healthy.”
Italy and Japan life expectancy: 84 years.
India: 70 years.
Drastic differences.
Turkey (lots and lots of meat): 78 years.
Life expectancy is not a good scale.
Can I still have 11 bread?
like just because you saw an infograph as a child doesn’t mean you have to have a hunk of a living creature every meal
Especially when said infographic was not only wrong, but also propaganda.
Vegans are great, especially with garlic in a nice butter sauce.
Edit: also you’re literally made out of chemicals.
Literally not a single thing in our world isn’t chemicals. Lemontek - chemicals interacting. Alcohol for some party - Chemicals. Every part of any meal - chemicals. All of it.
In general I think people are referring to things that are either A) heavily proccesed and/or B) something that isn’t naturally occurring. When they speak about “chemicals”
Your body is made to eat natually occuring plants and animals. Any deviation from that is risking long term issues. Effects that are very often (at least here in the states) ignored unless they just straight up kill you. And even then it’ll probably take a couple decades before anyone actually does something about it. So, yes while many people misuse the word “chemical,” their fear is not misplaced. You should be skeptical of things that are synthesized until they are proven to interact with the human body appropriately
B) something that isn’t naturally occurring
- Humans are natural. We are evolved animals.
- Humans created everything humans consider artificial.
- Therefore everything deemed artificial is actually natural.
🤓
Yea yea. You know what I mean
I’m sure cows do not care that the beef in them is healthy
Yeah, that argument is idiotically obtuse.
I think we need to understand what definition people are using for “chemicals”. They usually are referring to highly processed ingredients, with highly processed preservatives, highly processed artificial flavors (called “natural flavors”, but taken for example from the anal glans of a beaver… yes this is real and common). By the broadest definition, absolutely everything is a chemical. Generally, people should avoid any definition for a word that makes the word nonsensical. And also generally, you will find big lobbyist groups using that general definition to shell-game about the specific chemicals they are trying to protect.
When a food-concerned person mentions chemicals, they are referring to things like antibiotics or hormones, preservatives or processed sweeteners with known side-effects. Some of them are talking about isolates, like soy protein isolate to which there are valid health concerns.
And yes, sometimes people referring to chemicals don’t know what chemicals they’re complaining about. And yes, sometimes people complaining about chemicals are complaining that their meatless burger’s consistency comes from methyl cellulose, (probably) completely harmless but absolutely artificial.
The same way some vegans are made ill by the thought of meat, some folks are made ill by flavor- or consistency-related facts in their food. I mean, I think vegans would be concerned to know the beaver anal secretions above was in some plant milks under the term “natural flavors”.
Yes! I was merely poking fun, but I very much enjoyed reading through your comment. Thanks for clarifying for us!
Sorry, must be having a very literal day today. My wife says they’re common ;)
Don’t you dare be sorry, I genuinely love the energy put into clarification and pedantic detail
That just made my day, thanks!
I’m a vegetarian, but feel free to cover me in butter and smother me in garlic anyway.
✅ Peppers
❌ Capsaicin
YW
Yeah I don’t get the whole “replace meat with a vegan steak” idea. Just prepare a delicious Dahl, the recipe of which has been around for hundreds of years!
They’re not made for people like us who have been veggie or vegan for years and have learned to cook with pulses, legumes, etc. They’re designed for people who want to cut back or give up meat but have to break the cultural training that every meal needs meat. Also they allow casual food places that don’t have professional chefs like pubs, cafes, etc to have quick and easy veggie options on the menu.
I think there’s a more commercial aspect to it. It’s cheap processed food, and in fact it’s often cheaper than meat-based processed foods. The real offense is that they charge more for it.
It’s not that they charge more for it, it’s that the price of meat is kept artificially low via farming subsidies and scummy agricultural practices.
As someone who has seen both made, I think the prices are what you’d expect against materials and work involed. Plant-based meats require more ingredients, with more sourcing, and more processing. And then fewer are made and sold overall (economics of scale).
And people don’t realize, the subsidies hurt a lot of the manufacturing chains that are pricemakers for the meat. Ranchers have to pay the infamous feed tax when they sell their meat, which funds one of the biggest subsidies in the farming world, only paid out to the largest factory farms. Because mega-factory-farms can’t actually afford to charge the prices that ranchers charge, what after all those massive bonuses the top couple people make.
Plant-based meats require more ingredients, with more sourcing, and more processing.
You’re just using an animal to perform the processing instead. I wonder why poultry or beef isn’t required to list all of the antibiotics or growth horomones that those animals were fed as included ingredients.
You’re just using an animal to perform the processing instead
Which they do efficiently. There’s no grass in the resulting meat, or feed, or sunlight. That’s why they’re not on the ingredient list. And water is in everything.
I wonder why poultry or beef isn’t required to list all of the antibiotics or growth horomones that those animals were fed as included ingredients.
Per the Iowa Farm Bureau, because there ARE NO antibiotics or residue in the resultant meat. An ingredient is something actually in the product. Nobody says there’s gasoline in your food vegetables because of the harvester, or insects in your vegetables because… well there actually are!
As for growth hormones… nobody has to say there’s growth hormones in it because they’re everywhere. Beef from a hormone-treated cow has thousands (to millions) of times less growth hormonesthan many plant-based products like peanuts or soy flour. Nobody has to list Estrogen on soy milk.
Animals do not produce food efficiently. It’s not like everything put into an animal is converted into edible flesh, not even a tenth of it is.
They produce meat more efficiently than any artifical process, especially any process line using nuclear medicine (what businesses are trying now).
And for what it’s worth, there is no other mechanism that converts indigestible starches into highly digestible proteins efficiently.
It’s not like everything put into an animal is converted into edible flesh, not even a tenth of it is.
The typical chicken caloric conversion rate is 2-5x. That means 10000 calories of feed produces 5000 total calories that are higher quality than the feed was, about 2000 of those calories is meat, where the remaining 3000 is used for other purposes, like creating broths. This is incredibly, miraculously efficient.
Real-world numbers seem a bit better. 100-320kcal/day (more in winter and as they grow) per day in feed, and produce 2500 of straight meat after 40 days. That looks like more like 4x conversion than 5x.
Egg-laying chickens have a ramp up (where you feed them but they don’t produce eggs), but then produce an egg almost daily. That’s 80 calories in eggs for 260-340 calories in feed. (so almost 100% return on the extra cals). And yes, you can still eat the chicken when she’s too old to lay eggs. She’ll just be a bit more tough.
So if you’re comparing the production of meat to burning gasoline, then no chicken is not as efficient. If you’re comparing it to any food-related process (or hell, many mechanical processes), it’s downright jawdroppingly good.
Compare to corn. Only 10% of the calories in a typical grain crop are edible by humans. You’ll never guess what we use most of the other 90% for.
Things like Impossible Burgers, absolutely. I tried one once and it was so much like an actual meat burger it grossed me out. But I will make a seitan corned beef to put in a Reuben sandwich just because it’s an awesome sandwich.
Hmm I was 27 years a meat eater, advocating for meat consumption in the face of a vegan mate. Saying things like “we need a little bit of meat in our diets…they’re killed humanely…etc”
Took me one moment of realisation, then I dunno, I just tried, not even that hard, vegan 7 years now.
I can see that the transitional foods are a good stepping stone, but imo, the second you see inside the animal agriculture industry without any blinders on (biases), you’ll choose to act within your life, if you have the compassion/empathy to.
If someone sees the reality of what goes on behind closed doors and continues to consume animals in much the same way, it says more about that persons internal morality than anything else.
There’s actually a lot of plant based meat that are chemical / preservative free, Redefine Meat comes first to mind. As there is a lot of animal meat that is full of chemicals, preservatives, carcinogens, and antibiotics use.
I would only assume most fast food meals, meat ones included, are not chemical / preservative free. That’s a western fast food problem, vegan or not.
Lastly, vegan people broadly don’t eat plant based meats. Like it get the joke… It’s just broadly inaccurate. Meat eaters, people trying to eat less meat, and some vegetarians buy plant based meats.
Lastly, vegan people broadly don’t eat plant based meats
I think it’s a demographics thing. There’s a whole lot of vegans who eat “fake meat” regularly or even exclusively. I have a successful restaurant chain near me that specialized in “plant-based alternative” meals, from burgers to lasagnas and everything in between. No it’s not all meat. Lots of “Cashew Cheese” and similar.
And honestly, I don’t think vegans should be faulted for “wanting meat but not eating it”. It’s the ones that get judgey of non-vegans like the other 99% are somehow inferior to them. I know way too many vegans who are vegan for good reasons or for personal-trauma reasons, and they should be left alone. Even if they want a miracle burger and mac 'n cashes.
Of course there is. Not saying no vegans eat it ever. It could be a regional variable, but I’m speaking about population as a whole, not your local vegan restaurant. Google says 86% of plant based meat is bought by meat eaters. I also work in the field so have some knowledge on the subject. 86% is about right but could be 5-8% high. But in any case, the people who buy it are broadly meat eater, or more likely “flexitarians” .
And vegans should eat more plant based meats. The better brands are very healthy and it could help them stick to their vegan diets.
Google says 86% of plant based meat is bought by meat eaters
The reference behind that Google statement (assuming the same) is a vegan blog talking about the Beyond brand only, and it’s citing a wordpress site as its source, and the wordpress site has been deleted.
NPD has a study mis-cited by vegnews.com (that MPD doesn’t actually seem to cite), but it includes plant-based milks, and I don’t think that gives meaningful numbers. I’ll drink a soy latte with a steak any day. I’m lactose intolerant.
NIH has the most reliable study, that settled around 2/3 of plant-meat consumers are omnivores. Which is saying something, but is also not surprising from the fact that almost 90% of the world consumes meat. So I think it sorta just runs out to nowhere, with regards to being a demographic thing. Clearly, vegans and vegetarians are more likely to consume plant-based meat than meat-eaters. With 10% of Americans being vegetarian and representing over 30% of plant-based meat consumers, they’re eating that stuff up.
Very true, great points all around
Now with that out of the way, this is literally just a lame “I’ve depicted the group I don’t agree with as the Soyjak and my group as the Chad, thus superiority confirmed”.
It was never going to be a balanced take
There’s actually a lot of plant based meat that are chemical / preservative free
Literally everything in this sentence is wrong.
My dude… Says who? You? It’s not hard to Google - you find lists of them when you do.
Chemical free food? Everything is a chemical. Not hard to google that
“plant-based” is not “meat”. Are there “meat-based plants?”
All food is comprised of “chemicals”.
Thank you, it drives me nuts when people say shit like “chemical-free”. Everything is made out of chemicals, tell me which one otherwise I’ll just assume you’re uneducated and afraid of things you can’t pronounce.
I love both, I’m not sure I know any real person who thinks this is a competition
Every vegan I know is on some sort of culinary journey.
Vegan btw
Vegan from protein shakes lol
Same, it’s nice having more options. Apparently that’s a bad thing according to some.
That’s because this meme isn’t about veganism at all, it’s about anti west narratives
It’s not enough to be vegan, or enough to tell people you are vegan. You have to be a better vegan than them.
You have to be a better vegan than them.
Didn’t you know? Todd’s vegan!
Vegone?
Different cultures have different fucking food preferences, more at 11
Most vegans in the US do not eat food that mimics meat.
Most Western butt holes cannot handle Indian food that well. The couple times I went to Indian weddings, I was clamoring for anything that would not burn my butthole. The good combined with the ridiculous amount of alcohol made the toilets cry.
Try a fiber supplement. Or eating vegetables.
As a Canadian Caucasian I concur that we should all eat more vegetables.
The fiber is not the issue. I’m good on that. It was the spiciness that was the problem. I can handle a little bit of spice but there was pretty much no reprieve.
there are plenty of Indian recipes that’s not spicy.
but also it’s a good idea to just build a bit of spicy food tolerance.
The problem is when someone else is deciding how spicy to make it.
You need to focus on the creamy, typically lighter colored curries. Butter chicken, korma, things like that.
The anus has taste buds in it, so when it’s spicy enough going down it can be spicy again coming out haha.
But why the fuck are there taste buds in there?
I don’t know, that’s a stereotype that may not be true. I mean, I’ll also make fun of my culture’s lack of spice and spice tolerance, but I’m the opposite data point. I love spicy food, prepare very spicy food for my kids, and on my one trip to India had at least the spice tolerance of my Indian co-workers. We’re not all white bread and mayonnaise
I’ll have you know our British digestive systems can handle almost anything from over 60 years of Indian, Pakistani, Carribbean and Mexican food. When Taco Bell arrived on our shores it was bland disappointment compared to existing burrito outlets, especially given all the hype that it apparently puts an American in the toilet for hours :(
Thats from the meat quality, not the spicyness
Yeah there’s a sad story about meat quality in the UK after a lot of morons initiated Brexit (goodbye EU food law)
Think this post confuses veganism and vegetarianism. Also it’s chemicals all the way down. Those spices? Made of chemicals.
Those alternative burgers are actually pretty tasty but also very heavy because they are imitating beef. For American fare I’d generally prefer a sandwich with deli style meats made out of tofu or seitan, or a bean burger.
“pulled pork” Seitan is probably my favorite fake meat, its got the right mouthfeel.
Haven’t been too satisfied with Tofu, its ok, but there’s no pretending its not bean cheese.
Lol, I’m calling it bean cheese from now on
Tofu has a lot of range, there are many types of tofu you just won’t see that many in a Western market. There are also a lot of ways to prepare tofu, it’s very versatile.
You mean to say scientists don’t sit in a circle and summon the “Chemicals” from the lower tiers of hell?
vegetarianism minus butter/ghee = veganism. there are tons of dishes in vegetarianism without milk products
Ohhhh scary, buzzz words… Chemicals.
Don’t forget the preservatives!
I, on the other hand, enjoy all-natural pickled vegetables, which are just regular vegetables immersed in water,
sodium chloride, acetic acid & trace flavors — chemicals which act as preservatives for the vegetablessea salt and vinegar.
My only problem with Indian food. Whenever I try a restaurants it’s shit. But when my coworkers would bring in a feast on Diwali, it was my favorite time of year.
I can’t find any restaurants that taste even similar to their home cooked meals.
The best indian food I’ve ever had from a restaurant was from a truck stop in the middle of nowhere off I-80 in Nebraska.
Sounds about right honestly It’s a shame the best food comes from the most random and niche places
That’s because you can’t beat home cooked meals.
Yeah, the same goes for Korean food. I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of produce. In the west produce is often picked before it’s ripe because we have to ship it hundreds of miles. They also tend to change the spices and sweetness to accommodate western pallets.
That may be more of a problem with the restaurants where you live. I live in San Antonio and we have dozens and dozens of exceptional Indian restaurants where everything feels like it’s a home cooked meal. I definitely miss Diwali before the pandemic though. My old company had a lot of Indian workers and the spread of food they would bring in was always incredible.
I don’t know what country you’re in, but lots of Indians in the UK are actuall run by Bangladeshis and the food is a bit middling. Once you find a good one you become loyal.
Dude fuck off. Bengali cuisine is great.
The food those Bangladeshis serve aren’t generally Bengali cuisine, but rather what sells.
I’m sure actual Begali cusine is fantastic. Bengalis half arseing Indian dishes not so much.
Ah yes! Herbs and spices, the original chemicals and preservatives.
Honestly the Indian one should have just been “Here’s your meal.” “Thanks. It is delicious, as expected.”
With the power of spices… I lived in an apartment with Indians as neighbours 2 floors beneath.
There wasn’t a single day when you couldn’t smell all spices combined when you walked past their apartment. It was … an interesting smell…😮💨 I don’t believe they could smell/taste the original flavours of their food
Nice neighbours though
the original flavor of their food?
what is that? bland?
Yeah, tell him.
I like that all my different vegetables taste like cinnamon and curry.
I see the seasoning police has arrived. It’s funny and also sad that you think normal food flavors are “bland.” Better drown everything in Lawry’s seasoned salt and Dr Buttblast.
Probably. The spices must have been worth more than the actual food though (:
I used to work with a guy from Pakistan, my car would smell of curry for a week after a couple days of driving about with him. I could tell that he’d been back to his hotel room by the lingering smell in the hallway.
Haha :D
Yeah, some foods are like that - my ex-father-in-law had a similar thing with garlic. You could tell he had it for a couple of days
Nice if you like Indian food.
The smell of all the spices is too much for me at times but I am super sensitive to smells. Gives me headaches.
