• superkret@feddit.org
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    10 days ago

    The article about the invasion on Poland wasn’t any better.
    The NYT published the proclamation of Hitler verbatim without criticizing it, and reported the German lie that Poland attacked first as fact.

    Berlin, Friday, Sept. 1–Charging that Germany had been attacked, Chancellor Hitler at 5:11 o’clock this morning issued a proclamation to the army declaring that from now on force will be met with force and calling on the armed forces “to fulfill their duty to the end.”

    The text of the proclamation reads:
    *"To the defense forces:
    The Polish nation refused my efforts for a peaceful regulation of neighborly relations; instead it has appealed to weapons. Germans in Poland are persecuted with a bloody terror and are driven from their homes. The series of border violations, which are unbearable to a great power, prove that the Poles no longer are willing to respect the German frontier. In order to put an end to this frantic activity no other means is left to me now than to meet force with force. German defense forces will carry on the battle for the honor of the living rights of the re- awakened German people with firm determination. I expect every German soldier, in view of the great tradition of eternal German soldiery, to do his duty until the end. Remember always in all situations you are the representatives of National Socialist Greater Germany! Long live our people and our Reich!

    Berlin, Sept. 1, 1939. Adolf Hitler"*

    The commander-in-chief of the air force issued a decree effective immediately prohibiting the passage of any airplanes over German territory excepting those of the Reich air force or the government. This morning the naval authorities ordered all German mercantile ships in the Baltic Sea not to run to Danzig or Polish ports. Anti-air raid defenses were mobilized throughout the country early this morning. A formal declaration of war against Poland had not yet been declared up to 8 o’clock [3 A.M. New York time] this morning and the question of whether the two countries are in a state of active belligerency is still open.

    Reichstag Will Meet Today Foreign correspondents at an official conference at the Reich Press Ministry at 8:30 o’clock [3:30 A.M. New York time] were told that they would receive every opportunity to facilitate the transmission of dispatches. Wireless stations have been instructed to speed up communications and the Ministry is installing additional batteries of telephones. The Reichstag has been summoned to meet at 10 o’clock [5 A.M. New York time] to receive a more formal declaration from Herr Hitler. The Hitler army order is interpreted as providing, for the time being, armed defense of the German frontiers against aggression. The action is also suspected of forcing international diplomatic action. The Germans announced that foreigners remain in Polish territory at their own risk. Flying over Polish territory as well as the maritime areas is forbidden by the German authorities and any violators will be shot down. When Herr Hitler made his announcement Berlin’s streets were still deserted except for the conventional early traffic, and there were no outward signs that the nation was finding itself in the first stages of war. The government area was completely deserted, and the two guards doing sentry duty in front of the Chancellery remained their usual mute symbol of authority. It was only when official placards containing the orders to the populace began to appear on the billboards that early workers became aware of the situation.

    Border Clashes Increase Berlin, Friday, Sept. 1–An increasing number of border incidents involving shooting and mutual Polish-German casualties are reported by the German press and radio. The most serious is reported from Gleiwitz, a German city on the line where the southwestern portion of Poland meets the Reich. At 8 P.M., according to the semi-official news agency, a group of Polish insurrectionists forced an entrance into the Gleiwitz radio station, overpowering the watchmen and beating and generally mishandling the attendants. The Gleiwitz station was relaying a Breslau station’s program, which was broken off by the Poles. They proceeded to broadcast a prepared proclamation, partly in Polish and partly in German, announcing themselves as “the Polish Volunteer Corps of Upper Silesia speaking from the Polish station in Gleiwitz.” The city, they alleged, was in Polish hands. Gleiwitz’s surprised radio listeners notified the police, who halted the broadcast and exchanged fire with the insurrectionists, killing one and capturing the rest. The police are said to have discovered that the attackers were assisted by regular Polish troops. The Gleiwitz incident is alleged here to have been the signal “for a general attack by Polish franctireurs on German territory.” Two other points–Pitsachen, near Kreuzburg, and Hochlinden, northeast of Ratibor, both in the same vicinity as Gleiwitz, were the scenes of violations of the German boundary, it is claimed, with fighting at both places still under way.

    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0901.html

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 days ago

      Germans in Poland are persecuted with a bloody terror and are driven from their homes. The series of border violations, which are unbearable to a great power, prove that the Poles no longer are willing to respect the German frontier.

      It’s so crazy to see most of the israeli propaganda literally being straight out of the Nazi playbook.

      • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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        9 days ago

        Liberal media aided fascists in the past and continue to aid fascists and authoritarian now.

        • tempest@lemmy.ca
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          9 days ago

          I think peoples view that the increasingly partisan media has political aims is causing them to forget these are companies.

          They are making money (or trying) and they will say or do whatever furthers that aim. They are not out for the public good, they can’t be.

          If you want proof just look at CNN and their waffling in the last 10 years as they try to both sides shit so as to not lose increasingly shrinking cable news subscribers.

    • Elohim@lemm.ee
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      8 days ago

      The NYT published the proclamation of Hitler verbatim without criticizing it

      Yes that is how journalism works. It is a report not the op-ed you seem to want it to be. If you want to be told how to feel, as opposed to reports, don’t look to journalism.

      • superkret@feddit.org
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        8 days ago

        The main job of the news is to decide what to publish.

        The NYT made the decision to simply re-publish what Hitler and the German press had to say about the attack, 6 years after Hitler had abolished democracy and any free press in Germany, and after Germany had illegally annexed the Sudetenland.

    • AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      Iean ya failed history of you think these things are even remotely similar

      Hezbollah has been launching rockets daily. Hardly the same as a false flag fire

      • aasatru@kbin.earth
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        10 days ago

        I agree completely that Hezbollah makes up a huge problem, and after their involvement in Syria there’s not a hint of legitimacy left in the organization if there ever was any.

        But one would do well that to remember their origins: They are what’s left of the resistance from the last time Israel invaded Lebanon. So that’s what a great fucking success that was.

        And Hezbollah are not Lebanon. They control territory, and they need to be fought, but this in not how one fights terrorist organizations. This is how you create terrorist organizations. Which is exactly what Israel did the last time they invaded.

        • orrk@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          but that’s the point, it keeps their surrounding neighbors destabilized

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        10 days ago

        Uh… Israel was and still is committing genocide. And before that it was Apartheid and slower genocide. Setting aside the idea of refugees and how Lebanon is next after Gaza and the West Bank, every country in the world has a duty under international law to stop genocide and other crimes against humanity. The fact that Israel is committing genocide is, in and of itself, is a casus belli. This is the exact same thing the Allies get praised for in WWII. Also you’re phrasing it like Israel wasn’t responding each of these rockets with a lot more rockets, but even if we ignore all that: Israel made the conscious decision to escalate the conflict with Hezbollah with the pager attack and subsequent airstrikes.

        • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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          10 days ago

          The fact that Israel is committing genocide is, in and of itself, is a casus belli. This is the exact same thing the Allies get praised for in WWII.

          No, unfortunately not really. The extent of the Holocaust was not uncovered until the Allies moved into Germany and took the concentration camps. Britain was at war due to their guarantee of Polish sovereignty, the US was at war due to Pearl Harbor, and Germany declaring war on them a few days later. Nobody went into WW2 to stop a genocide. China and the USSR were at war due to being invaded.

          While some credit is given to stopping the Holocaust, certainly, that was largely a side effect of simply winning WW2.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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            10 days ago

            While some credit is given to stopping the Holocaust, certainly, that was largely a side effect of simply winning WW2.

            Yeah, I know. My phrasing was bad. I meant they’re being praised for fighting Germany and stopping thr Holocaust, not that they entered WWII to stop the Holocaust. I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of criticizing a country trying to stop genocide happening close to it.

            • Serinus@lemmy.world
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              9 days ago

              Which one? Clearly anything Hamas does is justified retaliation, so Israel is retaliating enough just there won’t be significant retaliation.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                9 days ago

                Clearly anything Hamas does is justified retaliation

                No? They definitely weren’t justified in raping and killing civilians in October 7th. However, as an oppressed and occupied people, they have a permanent casus belli against Israel until the latter starts taking serious steps towards peace, so the act of attacking Israel on October 7th (remember that 66% of the dead were military or security targets; they didn’t just kill some civilians and leave) itself is a legitimate act of resistance.

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                9 days ago

                Which one? Clearly anything Hamas does is justified retaliation

                im pretty sure internationally recognized terrorism isn’t considered to be justified or retaliation, but it’s the middle east, so that’s something that sort of just, happens sometimes. That would probably explain why israel is reacting so violently.

          • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            9 days ago

            China and the USSR were at war due to being invaded.

            the chinese leg of the conflict is particularly goofy.

            China had two, or three parties at one point, all fighting for control over the country. There was the communist party (backed by the soviets) There was the democratic party (backed by the US) and then there was also japan doing it’s thing trying to take over china as well.

            Prior to this there was the russo japanese war, which was an equally big shitpost, the russians having been fucking broiled by the japanese over it, though a different story.

        • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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          9 days ago

          And the paper attacks were targeted mostly at civilians and Healthcare workers. Who use those things the most.

          Also that ploy would have taken YEARS to prepare for, given the logistics involved in making the shell companies and finding out how to make sure the bulk of those devices ended up in Lebanon. Meaning nothing that happened in October 2023 had anything to do with that ploy.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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            10 days ago

            Uh… Did you not hear of that one Lancet study about how it’s likely for every documented death there are 5 undocumented deaths? Do you understand how the Gazan healthcare system has already collapsed and they’re unable to count the dead? Even just taking the current 41k and multiplying them by 5 gives 205 thousand, or more than 10% of Gaza’s population. All of Gaza is in famine, with North Gaza faring the worst, and Israel still refuses to let aid in. How do you call 10% of the population (already more than all Hamas members) dying anything other than a genocide?

            • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              9 days ago

              How do you call 10% of the population (already more than all Hamas members) dying anything other than a genocide?

              uh, simple. The definition of genocide as defined in the dictionary is an “ethnic cleansing” and if we assume this to be the “correct” definition, for the sake of argumentative purpose here.

              It must follow, as defined that if the conflict were to stop, that israel would stop killing Palestinians. Since this has been going on for like 80 years or something, it’s hard to say, but i think it’s probably fair to say that israel would stop killing people if they came to a peace agreement.

              However, this changes a little bit if we pull into the definition of genocide as defined by the UN or something, which is a lot more broad, likely due to legal deliberation, this is extremely common. Now i don’t know of any ruling from the ICC the ICJ, or the UN that classifies this as a “genocide” though i know the ICJ has said that this could very well be genocide. And that the ICC has pushed a warrant containing multiple war crimes for netanyahu.

              Though to be fair, i haven’t read into anything the UN has said on this conflict specifically, so i could be mistaken there just due to sheer ignorance lol.

              I know numerous “countries” have claimed as such, but i believe that very few have specifically stated as such, there has been a lot of public outcry, and im sure a number of politicians against this. But to my knowledge, only south africa has stated that this “is a genocide” however accurate that quote is, though to be fair again, i don’t know much about this one either.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                9 days ago

                I mean take a look at South Africa’s case. They have evidence of genocidal acts (causing significant harm to an ethnic group) and genocidal intent (the countless quotes from high ranking Israeli officials calling for genocide). It’s genocide; it’s just that the case is taking a while.

                • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  9 days ago

                  yeah, and if we take a look at south africas case, it’s not “genocide” it appears that it has reasonable extent to be genocide. Which are two different things.

                  You’re doing guilty until proven innocent here, which, is weird. Even weirder, when i see people calling for the literal denazification of israel.

                  As far as the two requirements go here, those are two very broad, and not very specific statements, genocidal acts is incredibly broad, so broad in fact that the vast majority of things that would apply, are probably not genocide. Intent is a lot clearer, but then you also have to consider military and governmental intent, rather than just personal statements. Civil intent is also a big problem here as well. I’m not convinced that the majority of israel literally wants to ethnically cleanse palestinians. Or that the governmental figures do to begin with, albeit they aren’t doing themselves a favor when they say super sus shit like that either.

                  Though this is also the middle east, and from my knowledge, this kind of death toll and fighting is not unusual? They tend to have very aggressive opinions on this stuff for some reason.

                  so in summary here, you’ve basically said, well, it sort of looks like a duck, and the sound it makes is vaugely similar to a duck, so this weird silhouette behind the sheet here must be a duck, there is no possible alternative in this situation.

                  Also. wouldn’t it follow, that if the evidence were SO telling in this case, that this legal case would probably be over a little bit quicker than it seems to be taking right now? It’s weird that we’re even deliberating on the verdict before it’s happened, and it’s even weirder that you seem to be 100% confident about it, even though im assuming you have basically the same knowledge level that i do on it.

                  Maybe i’m wrong, and you’ve written a PHD dissertation on conflict in the middle east, and have extensively studied israel and it’s history, but i’m going to go out on a limb here and say since you’re yelling at me on lemmy, you probably haven’t.

                  Notice how im not 100% confident on the statements i make? Even though i’d be pretty willing to bet money on this, i’m still not going to authoritatively state it either. It’s not really that hard to just, not be so aggressive about something this vile.

          • orrk@lemmy.world
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            9 days ago

            I guess we shouldn’t have intervened in the whole Yugoslavia thing then, I mean, clearly we have to wait until like 40% of the ethnic minority is dead!

                • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  9 days ago

                  i mean, up to 10% is quite a bit. That’s still 90% of the population existing though, so i’m not sure that’s to the levels of genocide, as defined by uh, genocide. Which would be ethnic cleansing.

                  If we’re going by existing figures, that’s like what, 2.5% of the population. I feel like famines have probably killed more people, and that war has most definitely contributed more deaths to this as well.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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        10 days ago

        Just like how israel bombed Gaza for 20 years straight and then Hamas a performed a limited ground operation.

        • aasatru@kbin.earth
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          10 days ago

          I’m sorry, but “limited ground operation” is the same type of shadowy bullshit language as calling the genocide in Gaza a “strategic operation”.

        • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 days ago

          holy shit this entire fucking thread is brain dead dude.

          Im pretty sure the V2 literally didn’t exist before they invaded poland. I’m 95% sure that’s the joke here.

  • greencactus@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    Well, it is obviously a special military operation to denazify and demilitarise the terrorist militia of other country, because it threatens peace and security. /s

    Seriously, isn’t this like called a war declaration or something? If you bomb another country and move in troops and kill civilians?

    • pressanykeynow@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      There wasn’t much declarations of war since ww2. Even the US was only technically at war when Panama declared war on them after the US invaded them. Ukraine isn’t technically at war with Russia, they actually do business together transferring gas to Europe. The world is strange.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        The US formally declared war on Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s what an AUMF is.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            9 days ago

            Yeah well there’s no accounting for them being too dumb to remember they passed the War Powers Act specifically to prevent the President from conducting war without a declaration. And that they specifically voted for the AUMFs as designated by the War Powers Act.

            It’s literally the vehicle by which they exercise that constitutional power. Of course they would then have to admit they declared official war on the concept of terrorism.

            The first paragraph makes that pretty clear, but they added two more just to make it crystal clear.

            It is the purpose of this chapter to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgment of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.

            Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

            The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

            Click here for the actual text of the law.

            Edit - I just went ahead and added them. I am so tired of this purely semantic argument meant to make the US look worse than it is.

  • celsiustimeline@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    10 days ago

    I was listening to German news this morning, and you could hear the anchor drooling when they were speaking about Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. Like, holy fuck, can we stop pretending all of this is normal and okay?

  • peopleproblems@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    Let’s take a complex situation, make it worse, set it on fire, then spray the fire with gasoline from a fire hose. What’s the worst that could happen?

  • YTG123@sopuli.xyz
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    9 days ago

    American media being more pro-Israel than mainstream Israeli media is continuously baffling

  • Juigi@lemm.ee
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    9 days ago

    Can israel just chill for once and can we stop giving them any help

    • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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      9 days ago

      Unfortunately there are too many fascists and too many Christian fanatics who believe that Israel and the wars it is doing are necessary for the rapture to happen.

      • postmateDumbass@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Funny they believe they can make their God come back to destroy the little project He/She/They/It created so the most sniveling, back stabbing, and sanctimonious 1% can go a special place of wonder, happiness, and peace in the universe.

        And then those 1% would destroy that place as well.

        • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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          8 days ago

          That’s the best fucking response I heard to that in a long time. I wish I could upvote more than once.

    • WhatYouNeed@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      With the upcoming US election, Bibi knows no one will take action, least it upsets the AIPAC.

      So he is using this period as a window of opportunity to do this shit.

  • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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    9 days ago

    Zionists have written that none of their surrounding countries are ‘nations’ in a legal sense and thus their land is free for the taking… by them exclusively. No fucking joke. I want to post my source later.

    These people are worse than the Nazis.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      It’s just the “empty land” myth that all genocidal colonizers have used as a pretext updated for modern times.

      • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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        8 days ago

        I have no idea how any of them can call it an empty land when there have been people continuously living there since the goddamn stone age! I mean Lebanon has had extensive trade with Greece and Egypt even during the Bronze age. What the FUCK are these people even talking about? Even Palestine is much older than that.

        There was a site called Masada 2000 that had some of the most brazen bullshit hasbara you’ve ever heard to the extent that they claimed that there was no such thing as a Palestinian before 1967 (as bullshitted by Golda Meir, the bitch) or that the word Palestine did not exist until 1917. They cite no sources because it is such a brazen lie.

  • nikaaa@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    It’s this meme all over again but this time it’s Israel vs. Russia.

    • pyre@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      would’ve been a different story is Ukrainians were sufficiently brown

      • SSJMarx@lemm.ee
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        8 days ago

        Or if the southern Lebanese had been fighting a civil war for eight years and asking for Israeli help.

    • uis@lemm.ee
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      9 days ago

      Quickly, turn on propaganda, turn on Soloviev!

  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    9 days ago

    im sorry, war is mutually consensual in all cases?

    I know a lot of war is generally formalized, but that’s mostly due to legislation and governmental reasons, not international relations. Or at least that’s my understanding of it.

    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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      9 days ago

      Can you clarify your question? The point here is that this is clearly an invasion by any definition.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        yeah, invasions are normal under war. That’s how they work.

        I guess i’m mostly just confused why we care about the clarification here, 90% of war is getting a one up on your enemy, either via readiness, attrition, or technological advantage.

        • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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          9 days ago

          The point here is that Israel is invading, but the Times was too compromised to call it an invasion. Usually when someone says “sends troops” to another country it’s to help after an earthquake or flood or fire or something. When someone invades with troops it’s called an invasion. The Times has a long history of unreasonably downplaying the violent actions of the Israeli government specifically, while using plain straightforward language in other conflicts, which demonstrates bias.

          • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            9 days ago

            invasion colloquially would be considered a more official declaration of war, idk if israel has acknowledged this, and if lebanon hasn’t acknowledged this at all themselves, than i feel like calling it a literal invasion is probably a little bit presumptuous here.

            Is the headline factually wrong?

            Usually when someone says “sends troops” to another country it’s to help after an earthquake or flood or fire or something.

            idk about this one chief, isn’t it usually “sends aid” or “send aid” do you have any examples of this?

            like to be clear here, you’re claiming that the NYT title is biased, but then proposing an equally biased term to replace it. I would rather the title just be neutral. The headlines are useless anyway.

            edit: removed a weird bit.

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                8 days ago

                “Lebanese politicians urgently called on the international community to pressure Israel to stop its advance into Lebanese territory on Tuesday, as Israeli troops crossed into southern Lebanon in an operation targeting Hezbollah outposts.”

                “This is not an incursion, this is an invasion,” Najat Aoun Saliba, a Lebanese member of parliament, told NPR. “We’ve been invaded by another country and we have to call on the international community to call it as such.”

                “Saliba urged world leaders to call on Israel to put an immediate end to its military offensive in Lebanon.”

                ok cool so this is basically the equivalent of MTG claiming that there are jewish space lasers.

                • 31337@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 days ago

                  Is it? Could you please enlighten me? I admit, I’m a bit ignorant of the politics over there.

                  To me, it seems like it’s a clear violation of a nation’s sovereignty. As a US citizen, I can’t imagine Mexico bombing us for private actors for distributing guns to the cartels, for example. Even if the government itself was responsible for distrubuting arms to the cartels (which actually may very well be the case), I still don’t see the justification for bombing US apartment complexes.

    • el_abuelo@programming.dev
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      9 days ago

      About as consensual as defending yourself from someone punching you in the face.

      Sure, you could let them keep punching you in the face…or you could try and stop them.

  • Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    I’m really sick of hearing Americans of all people, and Westerners in general trying to moralize about invasions and war.

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              You know I’ve never seen a single non-Racist person support Israel.

              And all the countries that support and enable Israel are all countries with deep histories of white supremacist exploitation and genocide.

              Must be a complete coincidence, eh?

                • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
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                  9 days ago

                  no. they just give a small piece of what they’ve gotten. the regime in iran, hezbolla, hamas etc abuse civilians as shields to hide their crimes. but maybe you can point me to the lgbtq spokesperson for iran or the houthis? cant. because they are just hatefull and uncivilized.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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            8 days ago

            Ah yes only israel is civilized tell us more about how barbaric those brown people are (which makes it okay for israel to commit Genocide on them like a truly “civilized” white society)