That’s all.
EDIT: Thank you all for detailing your experience with, and hatred for, this miserable product. Your display of solidarity is inspiring. Now, say it with me:
Fuck Microsoft
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Microsoft OneDrive is the maggots in the dog shit
There shouldn’t be worms in the poop of a healthy dog. This analogy just keeps getting better and more accurate.
Oooh, I hate it so bad…… I used to click “Save” and my word document would ask to save in the only folder I save ALL my documents in. Change the name, save, so easy!
Now it asks if I want to save to OneDrive… Fuck No Mr Paperclip! I want it in the folder I always use and don’t want to have to select “Other” then dig through screens to select the thing I use every time!
So annoying. The OneDrive documents folder masquerading as your actual docs folder. Diabolical.
What’s worse is when I need to upload the doc to a website the OneDrive folder is nowhere to be found.
Tricksy onedrives
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Onedrive is pretty ok, other than being annoying. A company I worked for was acquired by another company that had their own cloud storage product. After the acquisition, they forced us to migrate from onedrive to their product. It was so bad… Files would constantly corrupt and disappear, the speed was terrible, trying to share files didn’t work half the time, when sharing folders the people you shared with wouldn’t see all the files in the folder. They also limited our storage from 1TB to 25GB making it pretty useless for storing builds of our product or trying to share VMs.
And the worst part is that they also closed our SMB network share to force us to use that piece of shit.
After that experience, I will never complain about Onedrive again.
Haha oh man that sounds infuriating. Of course it could be worse, but def could be better
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That’s all.
There’s more: microsoft outlook is garbage
The new outlook has exceeded “garbage” and gone all the way to dumpster fire. It sometimes takes upwards of 15, 30 seconds to open an email. The new auto formatting is a hindrance to be overcome by tricking it to act how you want. Trying to schedule an event across timezones shits the bed half the time, resulting in improper meeting times being sent out. Absolute failure.
New Outlook also doesn’t support Really Simple Syndication, which I used a lot with the Old Outlook.
So back to old Outlook I go.
My CISO has all but said he’s going to prevent any auto-rollout of that shit because it breaks decades of user training and TRUNCATES THE FRONT OF THE URL, NOT THE BACK LIKE ANY SENSIBLE APPLICATION.
Like, let’s make it so Steve in accounting can’t see that the login link he wants to click is actually haxxor.com instead of bank.com, makes perfect fucking sense.
Wait, really? I’ve found the new outlook opens emails faster than the old one, especially the HTML-heavy ones that my work loves to send me.
The refactor to the rules UI is really nice too, the old one was so crusty. Can’t comment on the timezone issue though.
I’ve been told the extended time to open is related to how big the outlook database is, I average 200 emails received a day with various alerts and notifications from internal tools and it cripples new outlook in about a week if I’m not diligent with keeping folders cleaned out/emails deleted. This volume wasn’t a issue before I switched.
Ah so your issue is, let me see here… Ah, actually using Outlook like a normal user.
I’ve tried switching to Thunderbird myself but it doesn’t support Office 365 without a third party service. So I feel stuck with Outlook.
Ah, actually using Outlook like a normal user.
Ha, right? I’m keeping my fingers crossed there is some executive at MS raging and it will get resolved before they force everyone off the legacy version. Surely there are people inside their organization with tons more traffic than I see.
There’s probably a microsoft engineer out there somewhere sitting in a cubical who has the solution already written and tested and they just can’t figure out how to send it to their boss. They’ve tried outlook, teams, github, skype, and even one drive but they’re all so broken that it may just be faster to print the code out and mail it.
I accidentally switched to it and it dropped all my non-MS mailboxes. Then when I immediately switched back it had the gall to ask me why.
I will give respect where due: I like the sweep button. It’s handy for me personally, as someone who is on several email lists that are public-facing. That’s about it.
Every attempt to help me automatically is a pain. Like most things in this vein it never learns what you’re trying to do, only what they would do in a given scenario that’s vaguely like ours.
I’ll die on the hill that classic outlook is far better than Gmail and similar web interfaces for email especially if you have long threads or lots of emails.
Also somehow Google’s email search sucks so bad compared to searching in outlook.
Thunderbird <3
It’s actually disturbing that Thunderbird is the only good smtp/imap client available and it’s not receiving that much funding.
If I’m being honest the only Microsoft product I actually like is Excel.
They’re doing their best to “improve” excel too… I can’t understand how their AI generated cell fill is worse than the old approach.
Ever try finding an old email by sender. Lol, good luck
Microsoft Teams isn’t all bad! For example, it bogged down my work computer so much at start up that I would basically get an extra break.
It temporarily deletes my meetings just before they happen, so that I don’t have to attend them!
Of course, when I open it later, the meetings are restored, with the original date, and no trace of the deletion. So not attending them is quite hard to explain to others. But it does save me from attending!
Take a print
The one problem with that is that I need to know I’m not being told about a meeting to take a print.
The the screen recording always on lol
Oh, nice, Windows 11 will fix Teams!
Just do in what I do. Don’t join meetings most of the time. That way when you do it is noteworthy to the meeting stakeholder.
Yeah sure my manglers through the years try to have ‘the talk’ but after awhile of training them via sheer apathy they shut the fuck up.
I solve complex problems, get my tasks done, I’m independent and I stay busy because I’ll get bored. Most meetings could just be an email. There’s no real collaboration except managers or scrum masters asking what your blockers are but not actually doing anything about it. If I think the meeting will be a waste of my time I just don’t show up.
fuxk yea I get like an extra 30 mins a day at leastttt
Hahaha!
Fuckin epic!
Microsoft
Teamsis dog shitThat’s all.
Bill Gates is en route to your location
Oh dear god, no, what have I done
Bill Gates in this episode looks like he’d have nanomachines
Such a brave opinion on Lemmy you have balls if steel sir.
If steel what?
Your mother
😮
I don’t understand reacting like this. Do you disagree? Do you think only people with opinions that aren’t popular on whatever place they are should share them? Should no one ever say what many others are thinking?
Yes
What blows my mind is MS fucking bought Skype and somehow Teams still can’t handle video calls correctly. The actual fuck did they do with that acquisition?
Skype used to be peer to peer. Your call went from you to your friend (whomever). Microsoft decided that they couldn’t mitm that setup to scrape data; so, soon after they acquired Skype, they made all calls go through their servers.
Then they tried to make Skype make more money, since those servers aren’t free. Then they made teams and copied half the code into that, and cludged the rest to make it hold together.
In mean aside from the fact that almost all of that story is completely wrong, it’s a good story.
Source: Used to work at Microsoft and worked a lot with people from the Skype team.
What is the real story?
Skype made the call negotiation go through a central server (as does all systems nowadays). Skype was originally built on Kazaa technology to punch through firewalls without a central coordinator and that’s what Microsoft removed. They didn’t remove it to track the calling but to enable larger group calls on weaker devices which required video mixing on a central system rather than peer to peer call (where weaker peers couldn’t decode that many video streams). Calls up to 4 are still routed peer to peer if the backend can find routes through all firewalls.
Very very little of Skype was in the new Teams if anything. Teams was a rewrap of Communicator calling tech and was a response to Slack. The real time chatting had nothing to do with Skype either.
Skype lingered in Microsoft for a couple of reasons; Microsoft was crap at acquiring businesses back then, thinking that a hands off approach was best. It meant Skype never really became a proper Microsoft team - they still felt and acted like Skype employees and they didn’t manage to affect Redmond very well. Being acquired is super hard especially when almost all of the bigger business was in a different time zone and a different culture.
I was at a leadership development workshop with a tonne of Skype leaders about 10 years ago. They were still feeling incredibly frustrated and not understanding what was expected of them. It was a botched acquisition and the fault was on both sides.
So Teams calls of 1-4 people can send traffic direct peer-to-peer if they’re on the same LAN right?
Do all calls of 5+ users stay centrally hosted on the cloud? These are the kinds of things that MS should document and make easily available for IT and firewall admins. Finding info on Teams ports wasn’t easy in my experience.You’re way outside my scope of knowledge - I know a bit about the decisions they took 10 years, and not very much on what is happening today. I would imagine some of these limits are configurable and dynamic. I really don’t know.
They probably used Chat-GPT which at the time…
Ok Mr Chat I need to rewrite the Skype code to look more like what we have been doing at Microsoft…
Oh my! It keeps crashing my PC, can you do a little less crash and more icons and shit?
Oh, it crashed my PC once more. How about this time no crash?
Dude, I said no crash! But nice graphics! Can you make the people icons at least 25% of the total screen real estate? And can you also hide the full screen icon into at least half an hour of clicks? Yeah make it real hidden!
Fantastic work on the full screen thing! Could you not make it like anything Microsoft has made before up to the point where it can actually run?
Good job at sending all my information to random strangers! Many points for that! And the icons! Soo big and beautiful! Thanks Chat-GPT! Bill! We’re ready to release!
You should write a post sometime about what you know from the internals of Skype. I would read it.
Skype is fading fast. Thank God. Discord is already an internet standard.
Replacing garbage with sewer water. Not exactly an improvement.
And at least garbage let you make international calls with the money you put into it. Nitro-saturated sewer water gives you what—a bit of extra bandwidth utilization, 2 free tokens to prove you’re above the poverty line, and discounts on paid cosmetics?
How the fuck did they let motherfucking Zoom take over. The video-call equivalent of “Googling” something was to “Skype.” When Covid hit, Microsoft screwed the pooch horribly.
My sister is super high ranking at Microsoft, and when she calls the family, she uses Zoom.
I don’t see “screwed the pooch” used much but it always is funny to me.
Well, I’m a unix guy for 30 years and hated M$ bill gates blablabla and forced to use windows at work etc. Teams was somewhat bad at the beginning, especially start of covid pandemic , I’m using Teams multiple times daily for ~5 years now. But since ~1 year it handles video call pretty nicely, 20+ feeds, share screens, whiteboard, etc. it’s pretty stable at least, don’t crash anymore, and we can have multiple accounts. It took times to reach this state I agree…
Teams are losing parts of text chat conversations for me. Not sure if that’s issue of their PWA on Linux or just an issue in general…
PWA in Linux is unusable yep, with FF or Edge, super buggy.
I’m using Teams in Windows, I have a software KVM to move between my Linux PC and work windows laptop
The core of what made Skype great was made by a team of engineers in Estonia. Once it got acquired most of those people left the company. Many of them ended up at Twilio.
I was expecting a detailed rant, including an example or two. “That’s all” is much, much funnier.
Is there a Microsoft product that isn’t?
To be fair, Teams is pretty bad even for MS. I’ve never seen something do so relatively little and still perform so poorly. When I switched jobs and got to use Slack it was like a great fog being lifted off of my being.
VS Code. That’s it though.
You may know already, but you should try VSCodium. At least they took the Micro$hit telemetry out!
Powertoys too
That’s open source though?
Ah yes, you’re right.
I guess a better qualifier might be: closed-source Microsoft products tend overwhelmingly to suck.
VS Code is OK if you can’t afford the JetBrains ultimate subscription. I never want to see a VS Code launch configuration again.
Fuck subscriptions though.
Agreed…the community editions of their tools are solid, but if you’re doing cloud stuff, get your company to pay for it. It blows VS Code out of the water.
Ehh, it’s ok in the case of JetBrains - if your subscription lapses your license converts to a ‘perpetual fallback license’ so can just continue using the version you installed when the subscription was originally purchased.
I’m using a 4 year old version of PhpStorm with no issues and no subscription. My PyCharm sub ended 6 months ago and I’m staying on the 2023 version of PyCharm because the latest version comes with lots of AI which makes my CPU fans scream continuously.
WebStorm and Rider will have community versions soon, they are going to eat VS Code’s lunch.
They’ve been cramming random stuff in that though that’s making it more laggy. Recently switched to Zed and it’s so much faster.
WSL was my gateway drug to Linux. It’s neat. Until it isn’t.
Visual Studio for live .NET debugging and the WPF live editor.
TypeScript isn’t terrible. It’s extra work to set up, but it makes JavaScript codebases somewhat more maintainable.
Excel, Active Directory, and to a somewhat lesser degree MSSQL.
Excel?! Have to respectfully disagree on that one.
Sadly I had to go the other way, from Slack to Teams. Oh the horror!!
For your sacrifices, I salute you
How about Zoom to Teams?
Excel?
PowerPoint is shit but it’s the best by far
C#, technically not a product but it’s pretty great. The first few Xboxes, but that’s going back a bit.
Windows pre 8.
Microsoft Excel is goat for spreadsheets.
Erm. Can’t think of any more.
Windows 8.1 was great, you just have to enable the start button and disable Metro. It’s basically a faster Windows 7.
I have an old Microsoft brand thumb drive that fits perfectly into my ass and makes me nut every time
I must be the only one who prefers Teams over Slack. I just don’t like its design. Nothing makes sense to me in how it operates. But then again, Trams runs fine for me. No slow downs or deleting things that others have mentioned.
Unpopular opinion: I actually like MS Teams
Look, I know this might get downvoted, but Teams is… actually fine? Yeah, it’s not perfect, but it just works. The best part is that everyone and their grandma knows how to use it because it’s the corporate standard around here.
I can’t tell you how much time I’ve saved not having to do the whole “can you hear me? let me try reconnecting… oh wait try updating your browser” dance that happens with other platforms. My company recently switched to Google Meet and honestly? It’s been a downgrade. Teams might not be the coolest kid on the block, but at least I’m not spending half my meetings troubleshooting audio and video issues.
I haven’t really used any other platforms so I can’t really compare but I have encountered enough audio issues too. Especially with new Teams and bluetooth devices.
Same, Teams is terrible in terms of getting audio to work properly, our meetings still start with “can you hear me?” And often at least one person has to rejoin after pairing their bt headset again. But honestly everything else I’ve come across is even worse.
For me “it just works” doesn’t ring true. Generally at least once a day, I join a call and it won’t let me unmute, and I have to restart Teams.
Scrolling through history is obnoxiously slow.
The activity feed is mostly useless, spammed with stuff that isn’t important and it’s the only place that vaguely tries to keep track of ‘Teams’ conversations.
In my company, I’ve been added to about 70 Teams and it’s pretty much impossible to interact with them, so as a result no one does, they all just start ad-hoc chats, since that’s the only thing that vaguely gets managed in a way people can follow.
When going cross-organization, it’s a crap shoot whether or not we can use text, voice, and screen share/remote control. I know this is generally due to obnoxious company ‘security’ policies and other solutions have it, but it is a frustration. One recent call with a particularly screwed up company had us on two different meeting platforms at once as well as on an old fashioned conference call, because text was only allowed on one platform, screen share on another, and no audio was allowed on either (despite both supporting all three).
Sure, Teams suffers, in part, because like all corporate tools it connects you to generally dysfunctional work communities. However it broadly does have it’s own annoyances.
I went from teams/ms at another business to google at my current one. If they changed to Microsoft anything I’d burn the place down.
I went from outlook and office to Google suite (Gmail and Google docs). So, so much better. Maybe excel has more bells and whistles, but Google docs has everything I need and works so well everywhere. I would consider quitting if they dared to change to Microsoft.
Regarding communication, we use Slack for text and zoom for video, and it’s fine. I also have installed teams and Webex (for customers) and they are all okay-ish. Once I used bluejeans and audio quality was impressively better, but no one seems ot use it.
Yeah, I have a similar experience, but it certainly lacks in features compared to other messengers. For example:
- chat - formatting is terrible, Slack is way better here
- groups - haven’t bothered figuring them out, in Slack making a channel or group message is super natural
- resources - Teams eats RAM like crazy, Slack seems to be a bit more respectful
- recent chats/messages - I can never find what I’m looking for, with Slack it’s simple
I like the integration w/ Outlook because we’re basically forced to use it at work, but Slack is way better for almost everything that doesn’t interact directly w/ Outlook. So if it’s not a scheduled meeting, I and my team much prefer Slack.
Gotta say, formatting of text isn’t a high priority for me… I’m pinging someone about a thing, I’m not writing a presentation. Adding emojis is about as much as I need 🤔
And - to me - adding people to an adhoc group call / chat is straight forwards - and finding those conversations later is too
But, I believe that there’s a few Corp IT settings that can be adjusted (we’ve recently lost the ability to add gifs for example), so maybe that’s what’s going wrong.
But we’re a long way from AOL IM 😉
I send code snippets, quote sections of linked documents, and provide in-line links pretty often, kind of like here on Lemmy. Slack isn’t as nice as Markdown, but it’s good enough, whereas Teams is a complete pain in in the butt and it completely butchers code blocks. That said, I’m a team lead, so I fairly frequently post about recent releases, security issues, or give cliff notes of recent meetings, so formatting for me matters quite a bit.
And for calls, we have multiple logical groups of people, such as:
- development teams
- team leads (for all teams)
- groups by location
- groups by role (developers, QA, etc)
- release groups - may be part of a team, multiple teams, or parts of multiple teams
- automated alerts when prod has an issue
And we have ad-hoc group chats where just a handful of people need to be involved, but they don’t fit cleanly into one of the established groups above (e.g. project manager wants to know a rough estimate for an upcoming project).
Teams works fine, but I find it annoying to use.
Have you used teams for sending code recently?
I tested it last week and it worked pretty well and even featured syntax highlighting. From the very limited one time test I actually prefer the way teams handle code since it doesn’t force you to use some kind of snippet.
Teams is also supposed to get better formatting and chats fairly soon. I will continue to use slack because I prefer it but it’s nice that teams is at least getting better.
Yeah, it has gotten better since a year or so ago, but it still falls quite a bit short of Slack. Slack can do snippets or not, it’s up to you.
And yeah, it’s nice that it’s getting better, especially since I’m forced to use it for work (and interviews, where bad code handling sucks).
You can do regular code blocks in Slack? I thought you only could do inline or in snippets.
We luckily use both at work.
Yup, it’s the same as in Teams, but I think it formats better: use triple backticks.
“Your organization has blocked this action”
I mean this is my work phone, and I’m trying to copy a customer’s phone number from a spreadsheet to the dialer, but thanks man.
Not that I’m actually trying to defend MS/Teams (seriously, fuck ‘em both); but this is more due to IT Admin settings.
We have similar in our company, that’s in place because we handle PIR data regularly and it’s meant to be a speed bump rather than full roadblock.
For a long time, I would occasionally use my personal phone to check work email and Slack when I had to be out-of-office for an errand. They created a new policy last month that would force me to have a “work” profile on my phone if I wanted to continue using those apps. Fuck that. Instead I removed every work related app from my phone.
“Sorry boss, I can’t check my messages while waiting at my doctor’s office anymore.Why? Oh, because IT policies won’t let me.”
Your org letting you login to anything on your normal profile is crazy. Did you at least CYA?
A lot of small to mid sized companies lack controls around personal device use. For many years we were actually encouraged by first-line managers to use personal devices to communicate when out-of-office. And yes, I always C my A.
Ok, what’s crazy about it and how do you CYA?
If you have a work-profile that’s created through an MDM, your work-apps are isolated from the other parts of phone and your workplace can set restrictions on how those apps can interact with the rest of your phone. Clipboard sharing may be allowed or not, installing Apps on that profile by yourself may be allowed or not, certain WiFi Networks may be saved, you get the Idea. The benefit is that if you leave the company, they can just remove that profile remotely and both, you and the company you work(ed) for, can be sure that you don’t keep any work-related data on your phone. The benefit for you is that android gives you a toggle to switch all of those apps off, so if you’re on PTO you can just hit the switch and it’s silent.
how do you CYA?
get written permission to sign-in to your work-related accounts on your phone
It stems from companies being too cheap to get people work phones, but still wanting them to be available
It’s still better than WebEx because I don’t have to log in to that piece of shit software to start a video call.
fucking WebEx
I shudder when I go to an Apple meeting because they use Webex. (Shudder)
WebEx Teams (now just WebEx?) is leaps better… In that it works.
I actually like Webex better because the audio doesn’t get choppy where I’m from. For Teams to have good audio, I’ve had to call from my mobile, and I get charged for that.
The fact that me and a coworker can’t both share our screens at the same time is absolutely batshit. 1x1 collaboration isn’t even reasonable, nevermind anything more
Yes. Why the fuck doesn’t Teams have this capability??
Honestly, I like that it doesn’t have it. We use Teams for meetings where one person is presenting, and if someone else wants to share, then we’re going to switch presenters. Making sure everyone sees the same thing is important.
We use Slack for 1:1 or other impromptu small group discussions, and it supports multiple people sharing their screens.
So for us:
- Teams - larger group meetings with generally one presenter; collaboration happens via audio, not screen sharing
- Slack - smaller group meetings where there’s a lot more active collaboration with screen sharing and whatnot
I only use Teams for scheduled meetings and Slack for everything else.
Try sharing anything except excel and enjoy your 3fps. Being a game dev and wanting to show videos or share my screen while playing is a no-go.
Videos can work, but I think you need to enable some feature that prevents tearing. It works fine for people who frequently present with it, but I honestly just avoid videos in my presentations because I don’t want to mess with it.
I need to run and stream games at 1440p 60fps 😀
Sounds like you want streaming software like OBS, not Teams…
Yeah, maybe Parsec.
Teams isn’t intended for streaming video games, it’s for meetings.
Discord would be optimal. But not an option.
Why is it not an option?
The biggest mistake was to make it a “hub” for all sorts of other uses in my opinion. It shouldn’t be browser based, it should be native and just focus on chatting and calls, that’s it. It could be so much faster and intuitive.
Ah, they’re all crap.
Came to Teams from Slack, some upsides, some downsides. It’s a corporate communication tool, I don’t use it because I think it’s beautiful and elegant, I use it because I get paid money to use it.
Spoken like a person who isn’t forced to use JIRA
We have that pile of dog shit as well!
sounds suspiciously like we work together. 🤔
Grab lunch tomorrow?
only if the boss is paying 🤣
We just switched to Jira and I hate how pedantic they let admins make it.
Who in their right mind disables the “clone” option on issues 🤦♂️
Spoken like someone who hasn’t had to use both!
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Jira seems more consistent than Teams, and I’m in more control of Jira too.
