A 2025 Tesla Model 3 in Full-Self Driving mode drives off of a rural road, clips a tree, loses a tire, flips over, and comes to rest on its roof. Luckily, the driver is alive and well, able to post about it on social media.
I just don’t see how this technology could possibly be ready to power an autonomous taxi service by the end of next week.
“It crashed!”
“Yes but it did it all by itself!”
Except for the last 0.05 seconds before the crash where the human was put in control. Therefore, the human caused the crash.
The car made a fatal decision faster than any human could possibly correct it. Tesla’s idea that drivers can “supervise” these systems is, at this point, nothing more than a legal loophole.
What I don’t get is how this false advertising for years hasn’t caused Tesla bankruptcy already?
Because the US is an insane country where you can straight up just break the law and as long as you’re rich enough you don’t even get a slap on the wrist. If some small startup had done the same thing they’d have been shut down.
What I don’t get is why teslas aren’t banned all over the world for being so fundamentally unsafe.
What I don’t get is why teslas aren’t banned all over the world for being so fundamentally unsafe.
I’ve argued this point the past year, there are obvious safety problems with Tesla, even without considering FSD.
Like blinker on the steering wheel, manual door handles that are hard to find in emergencies, and distractions from common operations being behind menus on the screen, instead of having directly accessible buttons. With auto pilot they also tend to break for no reason, even on autobahn with clear road ahead! Which can also create dangerous situations.
Well, because 99% of the time, it’s fairly decent. That 1%'ll getchya tho.
To put your number into perspective, if it only failed 1 time in every hundred miles, it would kill you multiple times a week with the average commute distance.
Someone who doesn’t understand math downvoted you. This is the right framework to understand autonomy, the failure rate needs to be astonishingly low for the product to have any non-negative value. So far, Tesla has not demonstrated non-negative value in a credible way.
You are trying to judge the self driving feature in a vacuum. And you can’t do that. You need to compare it to any alternatives. And for automotive travel, the alternative to FSD is to continue to have everyone drive manually. Turns out, most clowns doing that are statistically worse at it than even FSD, (as bad as it is). So, FSD doesn’t need to be perfect-- it just needs to be a bit better than what the average driver can do driving manually. And the last time I saw anything about that, FSD was that “bit better” than you statistically.
FSD isn’t perfect. No such system will ever be perfect. But, the goal isn’t perfect, it just needs to be better than you.
FSD isn’t perfect. No such system will ever be perfect. But, the goal isn’t perfect, it just needs to be better than you.
Yeah people keep bringing that up as a counter arguement but I’m pretty certain humans don’t swerve off a perfectly straight road into a tree all that often.
So unless you have numbers to suggest that humans are less safe than FSD then you’re being equally obtuse.
Humans do swerve off perfectly straight roads into trees, I know because I’ve done it!
Can you confirm that to the best of your knowledge you are not a robot?
A simple google search, (which YOU could have done yourself), shows it’s abut 1 in 1.5 million miles driven per accident with FSD vs 1 in 700,000 miles driven for mechanical cars. I’m no Teslastan, (I think they are over priced and deliberately for rich people only), but that’s an improvement, a noticeable improvement.
And as a an old retired medic who has done his share of car accidents over nearly 20 years-- Yes, yes humans swerve off of perfectly straight roads and hit trees and anything else in the way also. And do so at a higher rate.
…It absolutely fails miserably fairly often and would likely crash that frequently without human intervention, though. Not to the extent here, where there isn’t even time for human intervention, but I frequently had to take over when I used to use it (post v13)
Many Tesla owners are definitely dead many times, on the inside.
Even with the distances I drive and I barely drive my car anywhere since covid, I’d probably only last about a month before the damn thing killed me.
Even ignoring fatalities and injuries, I would still have to deal with the fact that my car randomly wrecked itself, which has to be a financial headache.
That’s probably not the failure rate odds but a 1% failure rate is several thousand times higher than what NASA would consider an abort risk condition.
Let’s say that it’s only 0.01% risk, that’s still several thousand crashes per year. Even if we could guarantee that all of them would be non-fatal and would not involve any bystanders such as pedestrians the cost of replacing all of those vehicles every time they crashed plus fixing damage of things they crashed into, lamp posts, shop Windows etc would be so high as it would exceed any benefit to the technology.
It wouldn’t be as bad if this was prototype technology that was constantly improving, but Tesla has made it very clear they’re never going to add lidar scanners so is literally never going to get any better it’s always going to be this bad.
…is literally never going to get any better it’s always going to be this bad.
Hey now! That’s unfair. It is constantly changing. Software updates introduce new reversions all the time. So it will be this bad, or significantly worse, and you won’t know which until it tries to kill you in new and unexpected ways :j
Anything outside of a freshly painted and paved LA roads at high noon while it’s sunny isn’t ready for self drivings it seems
Actual self-driving vehicles, sure. Just not whatever the fuck Tesla is doing.
I’m not sure about even the more advanced self-driving cars. Shit gets fucked with snow and all kinds of other stuff.
Flummoxes many human drivers too tbh.
I’m confident that they all still need lots of work for advanced weather, but you’re not seeing a Waymo or a Zoox drive into a tree for no reason.
Or silly tunnels you can’t get out of.
Tunnels are extra dangerous. Not because of the likelihood of an accident, but because of the situation if an accident happens. It blocks the tunnels easily, fills it with smoke, and kills hundreds.
Except newly built tunnels in rich countries.
I mean, if Elon was my dad, I’d probably have some suicidal tendencies too.
More like the abusive step-father
I use autopilot all the time on my boat. No way in hell I’d trust it in a car. They all occasionally get suicidal. Mine likes to lull you into a sense of false security, then take a sharp turn into a channel marker or cargo ship at the last second.
Isn’t there a plane whose autopilot famously keeps trying to crash into the ground. The general advice is to just not let it do that, whenever it looks like it’s about to crash into the ground, pull up instead.
The Being 787 Max did that when the sensor got faulty and there was no redundancy for the sensor’s because that was in an optional addon package
Even worse, the pilots and the airlines didn’t even know the sensor or associated software control existed and could do that.
All the other answers here are wrong. It was the Boeing 737-Max.
They fit bigger, more fuel efficient engines on it that changed the flight characteristics, compared to previous 737s. And so rather than have pilots recertify on this as a new model (lots of flight hours, can’t switch back), they designed software to basically make the aircraft seem to behave like the old model.
And so a bug in the cheaper version of the software, combined with a faulty sensor, would cause the software to take over and try to override the pilots and dive downward instead of pulling up. Two crashes happened within 5 months, to aircraft that were pretty much brand new.
It was grounded for a while as Boeing fixed the software and hardware issues, and, more importantly, updated all the training and reference materials for pilots so that they were aware of this basically secret setting that could kill everyone.
Pretty sure that’s the Boeing 777 and they discovered that after a crash off Brazil.
Exactly. My car doesn’t have AP, but it does have a shed load of sensors and sometimes it just freaks out about stuff being too close to car for no discernible reason. Really freaks me out as I’m like what you see bro we just driving down the motorway.
For mine, it’s the radar seeing the retro-reflective stripes on utility poles being brighter than it expects.
They have auto pilot on boats? I never even thought about that existing. Makes sense, just never heard of it until just now!
They’ve had it forever. Tie a rope to the wheel. Presto. Autopilot.
I’ll point this post out to Wall Street Bets, Maersk stock will pop 10%+ overnight.
That’s not how boats (ouside of hollywood) work, tho
They’ve technically had autopilots for over a century, the first one was the oil tanker J.A Moffett in 1920. Though the main purpose of it is to keep the vessel going dead straight as otherwise wind and currents turn it, so using modern car terms I think it would be more accurate to say they have lane assist? Commercial ones can often do waypoint navigation, following a set route on a map, but I don’t think that’s very common on personal vessels.
That’s similar to commercial airliners right?
Full Self-Destruct
This represents the danger of expecting driver override to avoid accidents. If the driver has to be prepared enough to take control in an accident like this AT ALL TIMES, then the driver is required to be more engaged then they would be if they were just driving manually, because they have to be constantly anticipating not just what other hazards (drivers, pedestrians,…) might be doing, they have to be anticipating in what ways their own vehicle may be trying to kill them.
Absolutely.
I’ve got a car with level 2 automation, and after using it for a few months, I can say that it works really well, but you still need to be engaged to drive the car.
What it is good at… Maintaining lanes, even in tricky situation with poor paint/markings. Maintaining speed and distance from the car in front of you.
What it is not good at… Tricky traffic, congestion, or sudden stops. Lang changes. Accounting for cars coming up behind you. Avoiding road hazards.
I use it mostly like an autopilot. The car takes some of the monotonous workload out of driving, which allows me to move my focus from driving the car to observing traffic, other drivers, and road conditions.
self driving is the future, but im glad im not a beta tester.
You’re probably right about the future, but like damn, I wish they would slow their roll and use LiDAR
Elon Musk decided they absolutely would not use lidar, years ago when lidar was expensive enough that a decision like that made economic sense to at least try making work. Nowadays lidar is a lot cheaper but for whatever reason Musk has drawn a line in the sand and refuses to back down on it.
Unlike many people online these days I don’t believe that Musk is some kind of sheer-luck bought-his-way-into-success grifter, he has been genuinely involved in many of the decisions that made his companies grow. But this is one of the downsides of that (Cybertruck is another). He’s forced through ideas that turned out to be amazing, but he’s also forced through ideas that sucked. He seems to be increasingly having trouble distinguishing them.
He’s forced through ideas that turned out to be amazing, but he’s also forced through ideas that sucked.
He’s utterly incapable of admitting that one of his ideas is garbage.
There is a reason he fawns all over Trump and that’s because both of them are of a type. Both of them have egos large enough to have their own gravitational fields but lack any real talent. Look his family up, they’re all like that.
They removed their lidar sensors after the prices had already come down.
Musk has drawn a line in the sand and refuses to back down on it.
From what I heard the upcoming Tesla robotaxi test cars based on model Y are supposed to have LIDAR. But it’s ONLY the robotaxi version that has it.
He seems to be increasingly having trouble distinguishing them.
Absolutely, seems to me he has been delusional for years, and it’s getting worse.
Self driving via cameras IS NOT THE FUTURE!! Cameras are basically slightly better human eyes and human eyes suck ass.
i agree
Yikes. Glad they’re ok
Ditto! They were about 1 foot from hitting the tree head on rather than glancing off, could have easily been fatal. Weirdly small axises of random chance that the world spins on
I still don’t understand what made it happen. I kept watching shadows and expecting it to happen earlier.
It makes no damn sense! There were worse shadows. it was totally unpredictable
They seriously need to pull FSD if it were just a matter of people risking their own lives I wouldn’t mind but they’re risking everyone else’s by driving this glitch machine around.
I thought it might be following the tire tracks but no. It just decided to veer completely off.
I have visions of Elon sitting in his lair, stroking his cat, and using his laptop to cause this crash. /s
Why would you inflict that guy on a poor innocent kitty?
That tree cast shade on his brand.
It had to go.
For no reason?
They are running proprietary software in the car that people don’t even know what is happening in background of. Every electric car needs to be turned into an open source car so that the car cannot be tampered with, no surveillancing, etc etc
Everyone should advocate for that because the alternative is this with Tesla. And I know nobody wants this happening to other car manufacturers cars as well
Why someone will be a passenger in self-driving vehicle? They know that they are a test subjects, part of a “Cartrial” (or whatever should be called)? Self-Driving is not reliable and not necessery. Too much money is invested in something that is “Low priority to have”. There are prefectly fast and saf self-driving solutions like High-speed Trains.
I have no idea, I guess they have a lot more confidence in self driving (ESPECIALLY Tesla) than I do.
I just don’t see how this technology could possibly be ready to power an autonomous taxi service by the end of next week
That’s because it won’t, that’s because Elmo musk is gasp a liar. Always has been. That robo taxi is actuyab older lie he used a couple of years prior, but he dusted it lfft and re-used it.
Anytime Elmo says that he’s confident they can do it now, he means that they’re nowhere near a real product. Anytime he says “next year” it means that it won’t ever happen. Anytime he says that they alrethave a product, it just needs to me produced, it means that it’ll never happy
He is a vaporware con man who has been cheating people (and mostly the US government) out of billions
Literally look at all of his promises over the last decade, you start seeing patterns. It’s always almost there.
SpaceX, arguay his most successful company that he actually did with his leadership is a shit show of lies. According to him we’d be having colonies on Mars by now, it’s what he took 3 billion dollars in funding for, and he literally isn’t at 1% of that. Yet, he keeps claiming, within a few years now! Three billion dollars and he managed to blow up a banana over the Indian ocean, and obliterate a launch pad
If I commit fraud in the thousands, take thousands and then don’t deliver, I go to jail. He does it with countless billions and he’s still out there. Bit alas, his behavior finally is catching up with him, Tesla is going off a cliff bow that nobody wants to drive a Nazi brick anymore
Literally look at all of his promises over the last decade, you start seeing patterns. It’s always almost there.
Cheers for the guy/gal that maintains an updated list of all his bullshit, check it out sometime
Holy shit that is a treasure trove! Thanks kind stranger!
If it was open source tech people could check it and see if it really is capable for themselves but because it’s not we don’t know what it is missing to be way way better
Nah, on the 5 levels of autonomous driving, telsas as at level 2
Elmo isn’t even close but that wint stip him from just lying about it because that is what Elmo does best
I fear the day I’m on the receiving end of a “glitch.” It’s ridiculous that anyone can think these are safe after how many of these videos I’ve seen.
As a motorcyclist… Yeah.
