• TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world
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    1 hour ago

    RTFM is an obnoxious retort for people, arguably in community, not to engage with a member of the community. I don’t mind reading the manual, but perhaps you can point me to where in the manual I could get further insight.

    Reading a manual is also a skill. Being able to compartmentalize manual info into buckets of “obvious and I don’t need to read on”, “could be helpful”, “interesting, but it gets there I ain’t touching it” takes either training or just getting lucky after a certain number of reps.

  • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
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    47 minutes ago

    I don’t bother with manuals any more. I never manage to retain much information unless I need it right now. Way easier to just fumble along and find what I need when I need it and cobble together a half-baked “understanding”.

    Should go get some ADHD meds one day.

    • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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      53 minutes ago

      public transit, ftw… unless “I wish I died pecefully like my grandfather… the driver who was RTFMing, instead of his screaming passengers”

  • reboot6675@sopuli.xyz
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    2 hours ago

    I once read the first 3 chapters of the Git book and my coworkers think I’m some kind of Git wizard

    • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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      1 hour ago

      One of the first things I did at my first full time job (while my very under prepared boss was looking for “junior-dev-friendly” tasks for me to work) was go to git-scm.com and just read through all the man pages I could. I spent a few days doing that, then my boss asked me to create a PowerPoint and present what I learned to the team. It was instantly apparent that I was the only one who knew anything beyond git commit -a on the team at that point, and I was promptly appointed the “title” of “source control SME”. I’ve been heading up version control best practices for every team I’ve been on since (which is scary because the git cli has changed quite a bit since I read all those man pages but I haven’t had a chance to go back and refresh my knowledge).

  • NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world
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    1 hour ago

    I work in maintenance, people act like I’m doing magic, but 90% of the time all I’ve done is read the fucking manual, the other 10% is just basic awareness.

  • ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    3 hours ago

    I mean this is true and yes but in an age where documentation is increasingly terrible, the idea of a service manual for something you bought is basically a foreign concept, and half the shit you buy doesn’t come with a meaningful manual does it really apply the same way?

    Like sure, knowing the post error codes on my motherboard or linux stuff is possible because it’s documented. But the appliance example? That is increasingly false and those manuals are increasingly becoming 5 page idiot guides: “here is how to turn the system on and off, here is how to turn heat up/down, contact authorized vendor for issues” and if you don’t do that then you void your warranty. Any more robust documentation is locked to “authorized vendors” and costs $$$, if it even exists (and doesn’t just say “replace system when it stops working correctly)

    • Bazoogle@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      I partly disagree with what you say. The subscription appliance garbage absolutely do lock advanced user manuals behind paywalls. But it isn’t not rare (at least right now) to still find products with good user manuals. There are usually separate documents with one being a “quick setup” and another being a full “user manual”. Avoid the worst offenders and you should be okay.

      • ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        36 minutes ago

        Becoming increasingly rare and we are speaking on different things. You are talking about a manual that explains how to make your washing machine wash. That is important, yes, but I am talking about a manual that explains how an appliance works.

        the days of a manual explaining anything like an error code are basically dead. Name one appliance manufacturer that lists anything beyond the most basic of troubleshooting (“turn it off and back on”)

        Like go back and look at an appliance manual from the 70s/80s/maybe 90s and you will see a more robust explanation of what to do when things go wrong. The further back you go the more likely you will see parts numbers, circuit diagrams, or be able to order a service manual that has such information.

        We expect this shit level of documentation because we live in a throwaway culture that has tolerated this pisspoor level of documentation for decades. “Oh the washer isn’t working? It’s showing an E-05 error? Guess we better just go buy a new washer” or pay the manufacturer $120 for a “service charge” to find out that code means the latch sensor died and it’s a $30 part that is a simple 5 minute job except you can’t get the part because they won’t sell it to you

      • Cort@lemmy.world
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        1 hour ago

        LMBO, and sometimes it does come with a service manual, but you have to take the machine apart to find it like with my Samsung Washing machine

    • hansolo@lemmy.today
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      13 minutes ago

      They don’t.

      Undoing self-owns like ignoring available information is the basis for 40% of the economy.

    • alecsargent@lemmy.zip
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      2 hours ago

      People who don’t read error messages or do not take the time to see what is going on and just come to the technician/mechanic/doctor saying “it doesn’t work” or some half-assed hypothesis piss me off so bad.

      I know that at some point we all do a little of this in our lifes, but some people don’t seem to be able to read one goddamn paragraph ever.

      • Elvith Ma'for@feddit.org
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        29 minutes ago

        but some people don’t seem to be able to read one goddamn paragraph ever.

        I had a problem with my car. It felt strange while driving. Made some unusual noise. Then a bit later the motor warning light came on.

        I went to the garage, told them about the warning light and what I noticed the time before, what I suspected and such. A short while after the mechanic came to me and asked for a few details, as my description “wasn’t helpful” and the repair would be much faster with more details that told them where to look etc. Turns out the guy who checked in my car only noted “a warning light is on” and nothing else of my ramblings.

        So sometimes it’s also paying attention to what might be important and relaying information.

    • rtxn@lemmy.worldM
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      4 hours ago

      Most people were conditioned by more “user-friendly” systems to ignore the content of error messages because only an expert can make sense of “Error: 0x8000000F Unknown Error”. So they don’t even try, and that’s how they put themselves in a Yes, do as I say! situation.

      • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        It’s not even obscure, context dependent errors. I’ve had many professional system administrators not understand what “connection was closed by peer” meant.

      • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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        3 hours ago

        But most error messages are in plain English first (plus some numbers and codes).
        No, they see white (gray actually) blocky text on a black background, they think the machine is broken and go into panic mode. Instead of reading.
        Which is kinda what you said.

  • hansolo@lemmy.today
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    4 hours ago

    Video games trained millennials to do this. NES, Sega, SNES, even Atari games very often told you real shit in the manual. They were written to be read and contain training material. There were no tutorials other than reading and trail and error.

    • Farid@startrek.website
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      2 hours ago

      Psh. As a kid in a post-soviet country I hadn’t seen a game manual up until PS3 days. Every single cartridge and disc sold there was just that. Best case scenario in a flimsy plastic case that would disintegrate in a couple of years. Had to rawdog the shit out of those games. Pure trial and error and perseverance.
      Stuck? Try every possible button combination in every location that makes any sense.

      For example, couldn’t finish Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster’s Hidden Treasure on Mega Drive (Genesis) because I didn’t know you can jump off walls. Finished it earlier this year though 🙃

      Not to brag, but my brother and I passed the garage test mission in Driver (PS1) as kids. Now that I think about it, I should put it on my resume.

      • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
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        54 minutes ago

        Psh. As a kid in a post-soviet country I hadn’t seen a game manual up until PS3 days.

        we were lucky if we or family members in the house could speak enough english to know what the fuck was even on screen.

    • bizarroland@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      If I ever make a game I’m including at least 7 pieces of deep lore in the manual and one clue that you would only figure out by rtfm

      • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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        1 hour ago

        Back in the day, DRM was handled like this. I had an indy 500 game where the manual contained a bunch of hiatory of the sport and in order to launch the game, you had to answer indy 500 history trivia questions.

        Other games had a symbol alphabet (or some other mapping between images and information it could put on the screen) where the key was only contained in the manual (or on a piece of paper that came with the game).

        King’s Quest VI had riddles that needed to be answered in a symbol alphabet. You could play the game without doing this but you couldn’t beat it.

        A mickey mouse game had a paper that was dark brown with black ink (so photocopiers would fail to copy it) with Mickey in various poses and you had to find the number for the one shown on screen to play.

    • thejml@sh.itjust.works
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      4 hours ago

      Im really sad that there are no longer manuals in games, and half the time or more it seems nothing has or comes with manuals anymore

      • rtxn@lemmy.worldM
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        3 hours ago

        It’s not necessarily a bad thing. Manuals were needed because they contained information that was missing from the games. Since that time, game design principles have evolved, and most of what used to be in game manuals was eventually included in the games themselves in a semi-diegetic manner. For example, the Codex in Mass Effect, or the books in various Larian games.

        Player training is another aspect that has evolved beyond needing a written summary. Half-Life 2 is an excellent example. The player’s attention is drawn to a demonstration of a mechanic, then they are gated until they solve a simple puzzle involving that mechanic, then a more complex puzzle involving previously learned mechanics. For example: the player sees an energy ball in a socket activating a bridge; then the player has to launch an energy ball into an empty socket; then the player has to bounce an energy ball off a wall to reach an empty socket. Other great examples are Soul Reaver 1, Dishonored, and obviously, Portal.

        I’m not against the idea of supplementary printed material, as long as it remains supplementary. If printed material is required* to make a game playable, then it’s a failure of game design.

        * obviously excludes the other extreme end of the spectrum where reading printed material is an integral part of the gameplay, like various Zachtronics games.

      • otacon239@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        You might look into some Zachtronics games. Both ExaPunks and Shenzhen I/O require their paper manual counterparts to be played.

      • jaybone@lemmy.zip
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        4 hours ago

        Or you miss something from the one time tutorial and go through a ton of the game not knowing you can do a certain thing. Then you watch some YouTube video where someone does that thing and you’re like FUCK I COULD HAVE BEEN DOING THAT ALL ALONG!

      • hansolo@lemmy.today
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        3 hours ago

        If someone in the 80s or 90s was going to the trouble of copying roms onto new boards and making plastic enclosures, then photocopying a little booklet really isn’t that much of a heavy lift.

  • FiveMacs@lemmy.ca
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    4 hours ago

    try to RTFM for Microsoft…lol shits updated too much and all the old information is still there and outdated. convoluted mess of shit is all they are

    still, RTFM…always

      • Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de
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        3 hours ago

        And FTFM. Find the fucking manual.

        And perhaps TTFM. Translate the fucking manual either from broken chinese-english or the tech-lingo + missing context information which is almost every manpage on Linux, making it nearly useless for the average user unless you got hours and hours of time to understand all the adjacent concepts and commands.

    • B-TR3E@feddit.org
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      4 hours ago

      Keeping the common user stupid is the better part of Mickeysoft’s business model. The proposed solution for every problem is guessing what MS’ silly nomenclature might actually mean while poking around in GUIs that do nothing but keep you busy. Then buy something from their app store. RTFM doesn’t work in a system that’s inconsistent and undocumented by design. That’s not the fault of RTFM as a concept but a travesty of it.

      • AnyOldName3@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        Unironically, if you bing Windows API related queries rather than googling them, you’re much more likely to find a relevant manual page that answers your question clearly. I wouldn’t be surprised if Google is actively worsening Windows-related queries to make Windows look bad and sell Android devices and Chromebooks. Another example is that googling msvcp140.dll not found or similar queries gives you loads of dodgy download this individual DLL here and put it in System32 and we promise we’ve not tampered with it websites instead of the page for the universal MSVC redistributable installer that’s the only supported way to get the DLL (and a bunch of other related ones) as an end user.

        As for silly nomenclature, generally on Windows, API functions are much more likely to describe what they do and much less likely to be a town in Wales. If you don’t already know what fstat does, it’s much easier to guess that GetFileTime would be the right function to get a file’s last modification time than fstat, for example.

      • bizarroland@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        I have been told that the reason their publically available training, problem solving, and educational material is so terrible is because there is a secret printed guidebook somewhere that makes everything make sense and if everyone had it it could negatively impact the windows economy.

        I do not know if that is true, but I have been told it and it does kind of explain why sites like learn.microsoft.com are so terrible that I would rather treat the world book encyclopedia 1969 edition from A to Z including the index than try to figure out how to run a single powershell command from the educational materials available on that site.

      • YouAreLiterallyAnNPC@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        I just want to say I’m glad other people understand how ridiculous of a suggestion this is for fixing Windows problems. It has become such a low effort nonsensical approach because people don’t truly understand what it does and it feels like doing something. It’s the new ‘have you tried turning it off and on again.’ dism and sfc. Then when someone mentions how absurd the thinking is that this fixes anything but a small negligible fraction of issues, someone always chimes in how there was this one time where it worked for them. Perpetuating this low effort, almost useless approach to troubleshooting. I’ve fixed more issues with BIOS updates than I have with either of those tools.

    • SmoothLiquidation@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      This is a problem with more than just Microsoft. Any software (game, application, library, whatever) that has had many years of updates some of which are breaking, will have this problem with docs.

      Oh you are using version 5.5.24 of xyzlib? All these docs are a mixture of stuff when 4.2.57 was out and stuff someone tried to update when 7.5.14 released.

    • Naich@lemmings.world
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      3 hours ago

      Microsoft documentation actually sucks information out of your brain and leaves you knowing less than before you read it.

  • JaggedRobotPubes@lemmy.world
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    2 hours ago

    The issues come up when I read the manuals and they do not explain anything to a person who doesn’t already know most things.

    Linux fails in too many places at having instructions written by people who care even slightly whether humans will ever be able to comprehend them.

  • Bgugi@lemmy.world
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    4 hours ago

    When you were partying

    I read the fucking manual.

    When you were having premarital sex

    I mastered reading the fucking manual.

    While you wasted your days at the gym in pursuit of vanity

    I cultivated READ THE FUCKING MANUAL.

    And now that the world is on fire and the barbarians are at the gate you have the audacity to come to me for help?

  • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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    2 hours ago

    Half of US adults can’t read at a 6th grade level. This is haunting.

    Some strikingly high percentage can’t complete complicated tasks on a computer (eg: find 3 user email addresses and add them to a spreadsheet).

    Reading the manual is good advice but I think some people are just left behind

  • SacredHeartAttack@lemmy.world
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    4 hours ago

    I don’t Linux (yet), but I do work in Audio Production. I LIVE for good manuals. I always read them, and because of that, I’m always working from a starting line of intelligence with new gear. I keep manuals in pdf format on my computer in like borderline autistic order. RTFM is the best piece of advice anyone can have, ever.

    • RipLemmDotEE@lemmy.today
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      4 hours ago

      I too, work in audio production, and keep a meticulously organized folder of manuals. I love products that still ship with a physical printed manual, especially the spiral bound ones.