as a person that came from the 3rd world country and new in fediverse environment, i genuinely would like to know about this.
edit: thanks for the replies! sorry, i literally don’t know the reason since i’m not a western lol. twitter/x is too biased especially when musk openly supports trump so i came here and seeing fediverse is mostly are harris or biden (when he’s still up for the candidate) supporters. don’t know about reddit tho, i only use reddit as a forum for linux and programming stuff.
I think a lot of the people on Lemmy came from Reddit when the whole API thing happened. It was pretty much a boycott. I assume most of the people who cared enough about that to leave were mostly left-leaning.
That’s why I’m here, at least.
Edit: not sure about Mastodon, though
Reddit chased away the Trump supporters before the API thing happened. When it did, some people like me who are classic-liberals and libertarians also came over. After all, Lemmy is an inherently libertarian platform even when its users aren’t. When I express a political opinion objectionable to leftists, I get several times more down-votes than up-votes but I do get up-votes.
I think this is an example of where the left-right axis isn’t the most adequate way of viewing things. The Fediverse in general is anti-authoritarian. You can be all the way from a far-left anarchist to a far-right anarcho-capitalist and still be anti-authoritarian, just like both tankies and nazis are authoritarian.
As a libertarian liberal, what communities would you recommend? I’m sad there’s not a more active free speech community on this platform. The reddit one is such a gross conservative circle jerk rn.
I don’t have anything to suggest on Lemmy. There’s so little activity that I participate in every community where I see an interesting post, except for those communities which are specifically for people with some particular set of beliefs which I don’t share.
If you’re looking beyond Lemmy, there are are the comment sections of the SlateStarCodex/AstralCodexTen blog and the blogs it links to as well as some associated forums and subreddits. You’ll find plenty of liberal libertarians and the comments tend to be polite and high-effort, but keep in mind that a dedication to free speech means that people with opinions that can’t be discussed elsewhere participate too. It’s a bit much for me sometimes.
I left Reddit because of the pro-genocide mods
There’s only one way you can support Trump today.
You either refuse to acknowledge all the terrible things he’s done, or you approve of the things he’s done.
People who refuse to acknowledge, are going to look at all the “fake news” on this site about His Oranginess, and quickly decide that it’s nothing but propaganda and go somewhere “more reliable”.
Those who agree, stick around a little longer. They will argue and defend the horrible things, because they think there are more like them that will come out and back them up as a fellow defender of
racismmisogynyhomophobia“Good old family values”. But they will be downvoted to oblivion and have trouble finding a friendly voice. Eventually, they too will go where they can have a more comfortable discussion with people who are as terrible as they are.And ironically enough, if you went to Truth Social, and asked why there weren’t more Biden/Harris supporters there, they’d give you the exact same answer in reverse.
We had an opportunity years ago to fix this problem. Long before Trump ever showed up on the scenes as a political individual. We needed in schools to be teaching how to pick out real news from fake news. How to pick out fact from propaganda. Hell out to read a newspaper properly.
How to logically pick a part in argument. We chose not to. We as a society, decided not to put our money towards that. Now people read a headline, and based purely on the headline, make a statement such as “throw the guy in jail for the rest of his life for that one “.
I sat on a jury trial. It was a murder trial, if you went purely by what was in the local newspaper, you would’ve seriously questioned why the guy didn’t just take a plea deal. If you sat in that courtroom day after day, listening to it you’d realize this is a lot tougher than what you realize. we had a hard time figuring out if the guy was even in town at the time of the murder.
But for those that weren’t involved in the trial, they’re convinced the guy belonged in jail for the rest of his life. Because people didn’t sit down and really read the newspaper and ask important questions. Because we don’t hold our journalists to a higher standard and force them to give all the information And tell both sides of the story.
I have no idea how you solve the problem anymore. Because at this point, even if you tell the complete truth about any given politician, no one‘s going to believe what they’re reading anymore because there’s another so-called journalist out there saying the exact opposite and people say well I don’t know what to believe then. And can’t figure out how to critically think about this and ask questions.
Here in Lemmy we are guilty of the same sort of thing, same as over at truth social same as over at Twitter same as over Facebook.
As a society, I’m sorry for the language here, we are well and truly fucked.
I truly don’t know what the answer is.
Also sidenote 10 bucks says somebody comes back with a stupid comment of well since you don’t know what the answer is obviously you’re just saying that we shouldn’t do anything and just give up.
If you’ve never watched the movie 12 Angry Men, do yourself a favor and watch it. You are going to love it and it has everything to do with your comment.
Thanks for the recommendation
Neglecting public education is really going to keep biting us in the ass.
Something like half of US adults can’t read at a sixth grade level.
If we took some of the idiotic venture capitalist “it’s cat gifs on the block chain” nonsense and put it into education and infrastructure, we’d be so much better off.
I don’t really know how to get from here to there, either. Give me magic powers to Thanos snap away some people, maybe?
I have no idea how you solve the problem anymore. Because at this point, even if you tell the complete truth about any given politician, no one‘s going to believe what they’re reading anymore because there’s another so-called journalist out there saying the exact opposite and people say well I don’t know what to believe then. And can’t figure out how to critically think about this and ask questions.
Reverse cargo cult.
We needed in schools to be teaching how to pick out real news from fake news.
Obviously there are issues with education in this country but it’s always an easy scapegoat for these kinds of issues. Plenty of states have skills like this in their common core, I would venture to say you’re incorrect on that point.
Fair enough I graduated in the early 90s at that time we didn’t have it. At least not at the level that I felt that we should’ve. If I’m wrong on that, then I apologize.
No worries, you just hear a lot of misguided criticisms of the education system a lot of which are based on anecdotal experiences. I wish everyone would keep tabs on what kids are learning and have a more hands on approach to curricula.
So what you are saying is I should be volunteering for the geography classes to help reinforce the flat earth ideals? 😁
Oh fucking christ, a flat-earther. You people are even worse than the fucking round-earther scum on this platform.
I swear you people will never accept a velociraptor-shaped earth, prolly cuz your brains just aren’t big enough to process the geometry.
Edit: I really hoped the /s would not be necessary…
Did you miss the incredibly obvious joke?
You either refuse to acknowledge all the terrible things he’s done, or you approve of the things he’s done.
This is two ways. You literally said either / or.
No! I have been defeated!! I now have no choice but to vote Republican! Damn you, Orbituary! <Fist waves dramatically>
How did you get that from my comment?
It’s all good. Just having fun.
The brackets were implied by OP.
I.e. “one way: (be ignorant || approve)”.
Our three weapons are…
Not sure who down voted you. Or even why
Reddit’s early days were also far more left leaning then they eventually became.
When you have a small niche of nerds who enjoy discussing topics and ideas, then far right wing points will get downvoted to hell because they are, quite frankly, dumb, divorced from logic and the real world, and don’t stand up to actual critical scrutiny.
Reddit got more right leaning as it grew and expanded into the general population and more dummies started upvoting dumb posts, then got more right leaning when right wing political orgs took notice and started trying to influence it, and now seems even more right leaning because they’ve changed their algorithms to prioritize controversial comments and posts that get people angry because it boosts engagement.
While very true, dont discount apathy and lurking. I may have made 15-20 comments on reddit for tge 10+ yrs I was on the platform. There were so many ppl 1. That typically someone else would respond. Two reddit descended into ppl who just want to argue semantics. Here without the karma farming people have more genuine responses
Over on mastodon on the other hand… I get the feeling people brought some of the negative aspects of twitter over there. Still overwhelmingly positive but I tend to get more info on lemmy now than mastodon Imo
I don’t think there’s any less karma farming on here. People still look at their up and downvotes, and I don’t think there was a legitimate industry for selling high karma accounts on Reddit. Not one that would make a difference at scale anyways.
The problem with Mastodon and Twitter is structural, it’s based around following people, not topics. It is inherently problematic because a) personalities and status get elevated over the logic of the argument, b) following people instead of topics inherently feeds people’s egos in a problematic way, and c) a given person can use their followers problematically (brigading, etc). On Reddit / Lemmy by following decentralized topics it eliminates or reduces most of these effects, though the mods controlling each subreddit can exercise some of the same influence.
The problem with Mastodon and Twitter is structural, it’s based around following people, not topics.
I’ve long thought this but infrequently find other people who think the same!
On here (and reddit, rip) and most forums, I don’t really look at the user name. I just read the content I think that’s a better setup.
People still look at their up and downvotes
You can turn that off in the UI. I did that and it mostly makes the place more tolerable, though I do find myself peeking sometimes.
Early Reddit was very libertarian, you would not believe how big Ron Paul was. It went more to the left once it got a mainstream audience
“Without echo chambers, the weak trump supporter gets bullied and humiliated, leaving defeated and confused back to his herd. Nature is beautiful. “
David Attenborough, maybe
Closer to reality than you think. He did a parody narration of “the MAGAs”.
Haha are you implying that Lemmy isn’t an echo chamber?
It definitely definitely is.
But it’s not a Trump echo chamber, hence their absence.
It’s insane. I left reddit because I thought it was an over-moderated echo chamber with too much corporate influence. Lemmy is somehow an even worse echo chamber and it didn’t need corporate influence to see it happen.
There are plenty of Trump supporters here. Every comment from someone who implies one shouldn’t vote for Harris because of the Israel-Gaza war is likely someone trying to suppress Democrat turnout. Single issue voting is the only way the GOP ever win.
The Gaza posts always make me laugh because they completely ignore that Trump would just glass Gaza.
The only reason Trump hasn’t showed how terrible he’d be on Gaza is because he isn’t president right now.
excellent bait, good sir 👍
Another brand new account posting the same tired bad faith party lines.
Everyone who doesn’t stand behind me absolutely is my enemy.
Sorry pal. Harris gonna win.
I genuinely don’t care.
Have you stopped to consider that labelling someone as the “enemy” is parlance mostly engaged in by conservatives? Progressives don’t usually think in those terms. To a progressive, you might be ignorant, misinformed, misguided, deluded, xenophobic, racist, or engaging in bad faith, but you are rarely the “enemy.” Even Trump himself although perhaps though of as an “enemy of democracy,” is not a personal enemy. Your response using that metaphor serves to highlight the conservative mind set of making it personal, and harboring an anger so deep that political disagreement is grounds for personal animosity and even violence.
Some people cause so much harm that, fuck it, they’re enemies. It doesn’t matter that Adolf McHitlerface had a terrible childhood. Overwhelming violence was a legitimate mean to put an end to his action.
You won’t be able to fix everyone, and not everybody with a terrible life becomes a fascist.
Trump doesn’t care that you have an open mind and are willing to try to change him. Give him the chance, and he’ll let you know what he thinks of your good nature.
I’m not dehumanizing him. He’s not the antichrist. He’s in fact terribly human. But not all humans deserve rehabilitation, especially when they’re actively causing harm. When a terrorist shoots people at a concert, it’s absolutely OK to kill them to prevent innocent deaths.
It’s OK to take a stance, sometimes. And you don’t always need to be very civil about it.
I like how you’re so high up on your horse that not only does is your team too good to have enemies, you can doublethink away any use of the term as impersonal.
The US had a 2x mortality rate of Canada. 6x higher compared to South Korea, 10x of Japan the first two years of Covid. Even going with the lowest number, about 500,000 Americans could have survived with even marginally competent leadership. One that might not have…
- Disbanded the Pandemic response team Obama set up.
- Undercut the messaging from the CDC because Trump couldn’t handle Fauci having a higher approval rating than him.
- Spewed constant misinformation about everything from bleach, sunlight to ivermectin while professionals were desperately trying to do their job.
- Intentionally dragging his feet on the relief effort because someone told him that it was hitting the cities first and the Democrats would be most affected.
- Goddamn masks. All he had to do was go on TV and tell his little cultists to wear the damn things, and we could have prevented so much of the deaths that came from the original strain/Delta. (Not Omicron)
… Hitler killed less Americans than Trump did. That’s just facts.
The “disbanding” of the pandemic response team is largely misrepresented. I don’t disagree with the rest, or see how it’s at all relevant to the current conversation.
Op here’s one ^
Fascists deserve bashes
Agreed.
You: “Hitler can’t take back office, but we do need to continue the concentration camps. People who don’t want concentration camps are directly supporting Hitler.”
My brother in christ you cannot compromise on fucking genocide. Liberals like you are so fucking scared of the orange man that you are willing to let hundreds of thousands die without even asking for better.
If all you’re voting on is how they respond to Gaza, Harris isn’t great but Trump is exponentially worse. He’s openly said that Israel should continue what they’re doing. In fact, in every metric of comparison Trump is exponentially worse. It’s not that we’re scared of Trump, it’s that he is so much worse in every regard.
Yeah no shit but im not gonna settle for genocide. Slower genocide is still genocide and if I can do anything to prevent the murder of hundreds of thousands of people I will do so. I genuinely believe that witholding my vote and protesting has a chance of altering Harris’ position here.
What good does altering Harris’s position do if she doesn’t win?
If she wins without ceasing material support for actual genocide then we have failed as a people. Politicans are beholden to us not the other way around. It is our demands they should listen to not the demands of raytheon, boeing, palantir, and others that uphold their wealth and power.
Thats not even mentioning the fact that not supporting genocide basically guarantees her win. This is an incredible popular position that many many people passionately care about. She supports genocide because she wants to
But what good is punishing Harris by withdrawing your vote? What does this even do except inch everything closer to Trump - who will make the issue you’re prioritizing, worse?
It tells her that she might fucking lose if she doesn’t change her stance. Do you really think a politician will do anything for the people if they can win without doing it? How do you think politics works? Asking nicely? I’m exerting political pressure not “punishing her”
^ This is either a bot or a 14 year old. Impossible to tell nowadays
Please get over yourself
The orange man is not the solution here, to be clear
Yes, of course. I would never encourage people to vote for a fascist
Yet you are encouraging others to NOT vote for the non-fascist?
CuriousToeTea.tiff
Harris is materially supporting a genocide and uncritically parroting the rhetoric of israeli fascist. I am telling people not to vote for her because she too is a fascist. Should she stop supporting this slaughter then I would happily encourage everyone to vote for her
lol no
Found the trump supporter.
Ah yes everyone not happy about genocide is a trump supporter /s
Lmao, I’m not voting for a kid diddler either
Then you’re voting for…?
Whichever candidate is willing to end the genocide not that I’d believe trump if he said he would. I’ll vote third party if necessary
Harris is working to end the genocide right now. She’s fighting for a permanent ceasefire and two state solution. That might not be your preferred way to resolve the conflict, but it would stop the carnage and give Palestine more leverage to negotiate on the world stage.
Yeah… no. If she was working towards that she would have ended all weapon supplies to Israel. What she is doing is putting on a face and pretending to care.
The Americans are lost. Their version of democracy has collapsed over their own heads. In a way, they deserve this shit. If they put all this crappy energy into unitedly voting for third candidate, it just might work. But nope, gotta wake up every day and go online to accuse people who refuse a second holocaust of being tRuMp SupPorTers.
Free thought is dead in America and the Americans killed it.
Go ahead downvote me to fucking hell, haters.
It’s so hard to take people seriously who talk like turbo redditors. My BrOtHeR iN lOw KeY cHrIsT.
Thats fair but it’s probably just a generational or regional divide. For instance, I personally can’t take people who use that form of text capitalization seriously. No shame though I just associate it with 7th grade
I just associate it with 7th grade
You’re not gonna believe this, but I’m pretty sure that was the intent, to mock you
Oh, I’m not very good at detecting those sorts of things
Somehow people think that pointing out that anyone who isn’t Trump are pro-genocide means that Trump somehow isn’t pro-genocide.
Like you’re not allowed to think about two problems at once. Or that there are no other options…
I get that but I’m not gonna criticize trump for being pro-genocide bc we can’t do shit fuck about that. Atleast with Harris there is a slim chance of changing her position on the matter by witholding votes and being vocal about it. Stop doing genocide has gotta be the most reasonable political demand to exist right?
Yes. Exactly! The reason people keep bitching about Harris and genocide is because they hope something might actually happen about it.
Biden was an absolutely terrible candidate (that I was going to vote for) and probably the only person who could lose against Trump. Because people constantly bitched about how bad he was they changed the candidate.
Harris doesn’t get to use Trump as a not-as-bad-as screen, and given that we don’t have the option of not voting for her, everyone should be applying every other available form of pressure to discourage her from enabling genocide or otherwise maintaining the status quo.
Now is not the time. After she is elected, get out there and put the pressure on her. But it makes no sense to risk the fate of the entire country on this.
This will come as an absolute shock to you. You can vote for someone you criticize…
Which party was it that dogpiles on anyone that dares criticize their shitty candidates again?
The point of saying it before the election is that the expectations are set.
I can understand that you can vote for someone you criticize. But it’s obviously implied that you’re withholding your vote unless the administration changes their tune, which means you’re not voting for someone you’re criticizing at the moment. If not, then you have nothing to pressure with.
I am all for constructive criticism but I still don’t think this is an effective means to accomplish getting this point across.
What kind of democracy is one where you can’t even criticize the candidate because “it’s not the right time” right before the elections when the candidates are forced to make changes to make the public happy? After they are in power, it’s another 4 years of BS, and by the third year the same cycle begins and you are not allowed to criticize your candidate.
You’re willing to let millions die for how many more generations in Gaza with Hamas in charge, and tens of millions if Iran shoots its shot at Israel? Grow up.
You keep his name out of your fuckdamn heathen mouth…
They’re here, anything pro trump is often downvoted, and most things heavily critical of the Dems are also often downvoted.
For better or worse, there’s not a lot of right wing stuff that makes it into the positive on votes.
If you sort new, you’ll see it pop up from time to time.
It’s hard to tell sometimes, but it certainly feels like some political regimes are trying out dropping propaganda here or there into the conversation. I’m sure most of it is from genuine users, but there are some comments that just look like they’re here to stir up dissent.
The difference to Reddit et al is that votes don’t generally matter a huge lot in here. And you can easily hide them.
However Lots of places love to call those pointing out flaws in democratic policies trump supporters unfortunately
I like it this way. It’s not an “echo chamber” because we do have some interesting liberal vs leftist discussions. I think I’ve already heard quite enough conservative nonsense though; they aren’t entitled to my consideration forever.
You haven’t seen any of the “genocide Joe” trolls?
yes I think the bigger problem here is right wing propagandists masquerading as lefties.
Oh you mean ml?
They’ve all but vanished after Biden dropped out of the race.
you’ve stopped seeing comments about Biden once he became irrelevant?
No, I stopped seeing”genocide Joe” comments. People still discuss Biden, he’s sill President.
until he fucks off soon. the whole point of genocide Joe comments is that people don’t want four more years of him.
but of course thankfully Harris says she’ll help the genocide too so we’ll see how that goes.
Shh stop pointing out basic reality to liberals, they’ll get scared and start sending you death threats
They’re popping back up again recently, attacking Harris of course
Too difficult to come up with something for Harris that rolls off the tongue as easily as “Genocide Joe.”
Careful with that troll word, there are mods that will ban you for saying it. They tell you to report trolls to them, so I did (a very obvious troll) and I got banned. Pretty neat you can’t appeal, and you can’t find out which mod did it either.
Modlogs?
Just show mod. Not which mod.
Doesn’t show what mod did it.
Use the photon UI on desktop.
Just tried it, still doesn’t show which mod is banning or deleting.
Mine didn’t show that. Interesting
You can only see which mod did it if you’re an admin
What are you taking about? Lemmy.world loves to ban those pointing out genocide supporters. Cause totally every one who wishes Israel to stop the genocide is a dirty republican. At least that’s how the mods treat them
Because it’s a bad faith argument.
There’s no candidate that opposes Israel’s actions.
It’s certainly okay, even preferable, to be critical of our administration, but it serves no point to bring it up in a discussion of the election, because it serves only to de-rail the conversation when any candidate who matters supports the genocide.
There is a conservative comm on lemm.ee
It’s a shit hole though as expected
Remember when they banned the word “fascist?”
Self-awarenes doesn’t seem to be their strength.
Is there? Damn I just kinda picked an instance randomly before I really understood what that meant. Now I’m sad.
They absolutely exist. But in general, I think most people here are informed and choose a wide variety of information to consume. That is exactly the opposite of most Trump supporters.
Trump supporters tend to hang out in the /modlog community. Try there first.
They are, but defederation helps keep the echo chambers separate.
On DB0, we get both sides. It makes for a pretty interesting experience. I haven’t felt a need to actually block anybody.
Nice to meet a fellow non-blocker in the wild 👋
He just blocked you
Doesn’t that just create an echo chamber here?
Openness exists on a spectrum
Yep, here too. Exactly my point. Lol
They all on truth. And by truth i mean not the truth, i mean the a-social network truth.
They’re also back past the critical edgiboi quotient nowadays over at the other site that starts with r
They’re here, you can find them if you look in the right places - however, most fediverse admins are technically apt and left leaning so Trump bullshit often gets folks banned and, when it doesn’t, they usually get a very negative response.
There was an alt-right instance made that got defederated quickly.
