I’m gonna go in a different direction than everyone else here.
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse Of The Black Pearl
is a big budget movie that had absolutely no business getting made, because:
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Pirate movies have always been box office poison. Less than a decade earlier, Cutthroat Island made the Guinness Book of Records as the biggest box office bomb of all time, the latest in a series of pirate-themed failures. The only vaguely pirate-themed movies that had ever had anything you’d call success was Muppet Treasure Island and Goonies, and you could argue that Goonies wasn’t really a pirate movie, it had some pirate theming in it. In 2002, Disney’s Treasure Planet, basically Treasure Island IN SPAAACE had proven a box office flop. Treasure Planet is a well-written, well-made, well-advertised, well-reviewed pirate movie that failed at the box office. What idiot would bankroll another pirate film?
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It was a movie based on an old ride at Disney World. It was their fourth attempt at this, they made a TV movie based on Tower of Terror in 1997 that they’re apparently not proud of, 2000s Mission To Mars was a “commercial disappointment” and 2002’s The Country Bears was a critical and commercial flop. Yeah the year before they made Pirates of the Caribbean, Disney made a G-rated pastiche of the Blues Brothers out of The Country Bear Jamboree. They decided to do that and nobody stopped them. No movie based on a theme park attraction had ever made its money back.
The public’s reaction to the announcement was “They’re making a movie based on WHAT?” This wasn’t going to work. This movie had no business being made.
The film achieved massive critical and commercial success as the 141st highest grossing movie of all time taking $654.3 million against it’s $140 million budget and spawning four sequels.
Everything you said was why it made so much. No one saw it coming and it was entertaining. I still think the first two are solid. After that it fell off. But the third is decent just because of Jack Sparrow’s father being Keith Richards.
You can bag on all you want but it’s movie. The main objective is to entertain. And it does that on many levels. It’s not necessarily cinema but most of these movies are not considered high class cinema. They are blockbusters whose main objective is to make money while entertaining.
Oh I thoroughly enjoyed the film. I went to the theater to see it 8 times, with 5 different girls.
It turned out fantastic. But it had absolutely no business being made. And that was the assignment of this thread.
I loved that Tower of Terror movie. Knowing the lore made the ride so much better once I finally got to experience it.
It’s apparently not available anywhere, no streaming service carries it.
Stremio carries it:
But to be fair, it’s a piracy service, so it carries everything. But a damn good piracy service, though. So much so that I canceled all my streaming services and just use Stremio now.
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The Last Jedi.
I left the theatre angry that they spent enough money to take mankind back to the moon on something that stupid.
I can’t leave it at that. I have to add some details.
Both the empire and the rebels repeatedly made tactical decisions so stupid a five-year old would know better. The opening battle involved sending unprotected bombers against a ship with anti-bomber defences and keeping the enemy commander talking on the phone to delay his response. That works in a Mel Brooks movie, not in Star Wars.
They killed a fan-favourite character off-screen. What, was the puppet too old to reprise its role?
The empire’s main guy decided to chase the rebels down instead of destroying them immediately. For fun, I guess.
Phasma’s a badass. Except that she capitulates at the first sign of personal danger.
All Holdo had to say was “yes, there’s a plan. Not telling you what because of operational secrecy”. Instead she expected Poe to blindly follow orders when he’d already shown he couldn’t do that.
“Oh no, the sacred texts!” …that you attempted to burn a moment ago.
My favorite bit:
Leia gives Rey a pendant and tells her that she can use that to track them wherever they go.
In the SAME SCENE, with NO CUTS, they are tracked by the first order and shout “THAT’S IMPOSSIBLE!”
You just described, IN THE SAME SCENE, how it is, in fact, possible.
Bonus: Putting a tracker in the Falcon was how the Death Star found Yavin IV in the very first movie.
All Holdo had to say was “yes, there’s a plan. Not telling you what because of operational secrecy”. Instead she expected Poe to blindly follow orders when he’d already shown he couldn’t do that.
Well, he did fine following orders in the first movie, and then they changed the entire character in the second movie but kept the same name. I have no idea why they did that.
It’s the movie equivalent of trolling.
You expect a movie director only interested in pretty scenes to write a good plot!?
… your name must be Kathleen Kennedy…
Isn’t Kathleen the producer? It was directed by Ryan Johnson
Yes, and she gave Ryan Johnson full control and backed up his lameass girlboss and “subverting expectation” BS in pressers after.
She even joined in on calling everyone that said the sucky movie sucked misogynists.
I don’t think this is entirely accurate. I know ultimately Kathleen called a lot of the shots and was very meddling in the production and I thitk Ryan was trying to do something original after seeing what a superficial piece of garbage TFA was. Ryan is actually a good writer / director.
I’m not saying his other work is bad, but The Last Jedi is unequivocal trash.
That works in a Mel Brooks movie
Good. Our first laugh of the day.
And yet… it’s my favorite post-OT movie. It could’ve used another draft to tighten a couple things up here and there, but it was good.
Now… TRoS is one of the worst films I’ve ever seen in my life and is the only Star Wars property I’ve only seen a single time and never will watch again. Hell I watched Book of Boba Fett twice. Shit, I’ve watched In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale twice. I’d have to go back to Battlefield Earth to think of an equally terrible film.
But when watching The Last Jedi I feel nothing but joy.
Is this the one with horses in space?? I fuckin hated that. Perfectly encapsulated the overdone-ness of it all
No, the horses were in Rise of Skywalker.
The Last Jedi was the one with the “Can you hear me now?” gags, and Luke tossing the lightsaber away.
I think they meant the horse-like things on the casino planet.
Oh god, right enough, I’d forgotten about those, and that whole casino thing! God damn, I hated that movie…
I see why they made it but really the ip must be toxic because there’s no reason they cant make these movies.
thats the 2nd best star wars movie
I’ve given my reasons, how about you give yours?
I can.
Luke’s arc is exactly as he predicted back in Empire and ROTJ. He found peace and defeated his foe using the force in a peaceful way and helped them escape in redemption. Redemption from the horrific way he wanted to kill his disciple out of fear.
Rey and Kylo had legitimate struggles with who they were. A character arc of not knowing who was truly bad or good and the internal struggles with figuring that out.
The battle scene with the imperial guards with Rey and Kylo was one of the best cinematic battle scenes in Star Wars for me.
The vision quest of Rey was legit eye opening on her character and not foreshadowing anything. Great way to tell a story.
The flashbacks with Kylo and Luke changing what happened throughout the story was a good story telling device. I forget what story type it is, but it see saws 3 times until we find out what really happens.
I know it’s not a popular opinion. But I do enjoy this movie so much more than the prequels in terms of execution and emotional connection.
8 was better than 7, and it set up the possibility of an amazing 9.
Then jj abrams shat all over everything.
+ Rogue One.
WTF Rogue One is awesome
Rogue One is a shitfest for a variety of reasons:
The original writer director didn’t start with a script, he started with a supercut of other sci fi films and used that to make a script.
Even when he had a script, he spent an hour a day shooting off script for things that looked cool, but served no purpose.
So when the first trailers came out, they were full of gibberish footage that was never actually used in the movie.
https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/6/14195898/rogue-one-star-wars-trailer-jyn-erson
Then he got fired and a new writer director was brought in, one who said his super power was he never liked Star Wars.
https://theplaylist.net/tony-gilroy-rogue-one-podcast-20180405/
“Because that was my superpower. A) I don’t like ‘Star Wars’—not that I don’t like it, but I’ve never been interested in ‘Star Wars’ ever, so I had no reverence for it whatsoever, I was unafraid about that and they were in such a swamp… they were in so much, terrible, terrible trouble that all you could do was improve their position.”
So you get conflicting scenes, one where Cassian has no trouble murdering an innocent informant, but not long after gets all sweaty and conflicted when it’s time to assassinate a legitimate military target.
https://youtu.be/LORtuZ0ISF4#t=48s
vs.
No character growth, no arc, just in one scene he has no trouble murdering an innocent guy WHO HELPED HIM BTW, but later refuses to take out a military target HE WAS SUPPOSED to kill.
To say nothing of crapping all over the iconic opening of Star Wars by having Vader watch the Death Star plans fly away, personally, with his own eyes.
It’s pretty funny that it still turned out to be the best Star Wars film since the OG trilogy.
Empire Strikes Back is similar in it’s excellent story which somehow survived the shitstorm of fuckups and changes
I dunno, I think the best of the Disney versions is still Force Awakens. The big complaint is “Well, it’s just Star Wars…” which is true… but it’s Star Wars without George Lucas. They had to prove they could do what Lucas did without Lucas and I think they succeeded in that.
Then Last Jedi shit the bed. Then Carrie Fisher died which painted them into a corner with Rise of Skywalker. Force Awakens was Han, Last Jedi was Luke, Rise of Skywalker was supposed to be Leia… 😢
The Force Awakens is just “A New Hope [Remix].” They didn’t “do it without George Lucas,” they just took what George did and put it through the JJ Abram’s filter.
This. Force awakens is star wars by algorithm.
No character growth, no arc, just in one scene he has no trouble murdering an innocent guy WHO HELPED HIM BTW, but later refuses to take out a military target HE WAS SUPPOSED to kill.
Yeah, it’s almost like the target he was about to assassinate could be the only person in the galaxy who knows how to take out the weapon he just witnessed level a city.
To say nothing of crapping all over the iconic opening of Star Wars by having Vader watch the Death Star plans fly away, personally, with his own eyes.
Those two scenes line up perfectly and imo are quite satisfying when watching the two films back to back. In what way does Rogue One’s ending “crap all over” A New Hope’s opening?
In Star Wars, Vader interrogates Leia, he talks about the plans being transmitted, not that he saw them personally be stolen.
He’s also ragged on by Motti for not having found the tapes when Rogue One puts him in the same hallway with them.
Speaking of… he force grabs every one and every thing in that hallway except the ONE THING he’s there for. Vader is not that STUPID.
The Death Star Plans have plot armor, they HAVE to get away, don’t put them in the same hallway as Vader and don’t make them a physical object that can be grabbed.
Yep I walked out of the theater about halfway in
Same. I got as far as “Yer a
wizardrebel now!” and was like “Nope!” Took 3 full tries before I finished it.The Rebel Moon movies are better than Rogue One and that’s saying something.
The Rebel Moon movies are better than Rogue One
Woah slow down there. I can understand not liking Rogue One, but no way the trash that is Rebel Moon is better.
Rebel Moon is worth it just to see the Space Nazis get wrecked. LOL.
I’m not going to read all that shit: Rogue One was fucking awesome.
Which is why you’ll never know Rogue One is trash. LOL.
I tried watching new star wars and they were all so boring. I remember from childhood pod racing and that red guy with double light sabers.
I now see that people liked star wars for it’s story, but for me it was just a cool space fantasy. That nostalgia didn’t transfer for me.
I don’t very well remember the plot of the first three of the new movies, but I remember being bored, they felt slow and there were no hooks to make me care. After watching the third movie I just said fuck it and gave up.
I might try and watch the old movies as a grown up, but at this point I’d rather rewatch Shrek after work then gamble on a franchise I probably won’t like.
You take that back! It spawned andor which is also amazing. Rogue one proves they can actually make a gritty star wars film that shows a broken universe wouldn’t be all good vs evil bullshit.
I didn’t think I could dislike Rogue One until I watched Andor. After finishing Andor and then rewatching Rogue One, I felt disappointed that it wasn’t quite as good.
Not that it means Rogue One is a bad Star Wars film, but that Andor is just that good. I don’t think they’ll ever make another piece of Star Wars media that can surpass it.
Most of them.
Marvel movies and well basically all of Hollywood are basically a massive money laundering scheme under the auspices of the DOD/USAF.
Ask GPT. Even it knows.
The Hobbit trilogy. It’s hard to understand how Peter Jackson could mess up movie after movie after movie like that.
Simple:
He and his crew had 2 years of prep for Lotr, storyboards, finding locations, making props and sets, etc.
New Line Cinemas forced him to do that same prep in 6 months for the Hobbit. Allegedly they didn’t even fully finish the script and had to cut in Del Toro scenes.
The forced trilogy structure also really hurt it. When the Hobbit film adaptation was initially announced (at the time just two movies, even), I thought that it didn’t make any sense to adapt a book shorter than any of the individual LotR installments into multiple movies. When they revealed it would be a trilogy, I knew it was some studio decision to milk it for money and didn’t have high hopes.
There is actually a fan edit floating around online somewhere called “The Hobbit: Extended Edition” which, contrary to what the name might imply, cuts down the trilogy into a single movie of comparable length to the LotR Extended films. Still not perfect, but a huge improvement in quality just from cutting out all of the extra garbage that didn’t need to be there.
There are a few different edits, but my fave is the M4 Book Edit. It only follows what was covered in the book and cuts out all the additions like the Kili/Tauriel love story (and Tauriel is cut out completely along with Azog until the end), the Dol Guldur stuff, and Gandalf’s escapades outside the party. It cuts the trilogy down to 4hr18min. Aside from a few unavoidably janky transitions, it’s great.
I absolutely adore it for 2 reasons: One, I really dislike the trilogy as a whole, but that’s because of the bloat, which M4 gets rid of. Two, the older I get the harder it is to go through LOTR as often as I like. I usually do an LOTR rewatch once a year, and tried to add in the Hobbit, but usually stopped after the first. It’s just too much time for not enough payoff. With the M4 edit, I’ll get stoned and watch it 5 or 6 times a year.
For as much flack as Jackson gets the for The Hobbit movies, he did a phenomenal job where it counts. There really is a wonderful, true-to-source Hobbit adventure scattered throughout the 8hr52min bloat that is the trilogy.
For funsies, if you like the other bits there’s another fan edit called Durin’s Folk and the Hill of Sorcery that’s 1hr8min that covers Gandalf’s adventure after he fucks off from the party at Mirkwood.
There is actually a fan edit floating around online somewhere
I think it was Prime’s Theater where I learnt that for the Smaug fight scene for movie 2, they planed the set the night before, painted the next morning, filmed, and the paint was still wet when the sets were taken down.
I like them all ¯_(ツ)_/¯
(Yes I had read the book before they were made)
Battleship. It’s just such a bizarre license for a movie, and certainly one nobody ever asked for. (Well, outside Hasbro execs clearly desperate for another Transformers-level hit.)
Oddly watchable in a big dumb fun kind of way, at least. And hey, it has Jesse Plemons not playing a total sociopath, so that’s neat.
Watching an Iowa-class battleship do things is always fun.
I’m still waiting for the film adaptation of Checkers.
Hey Gemini, in the style of the 2012 movie Battleship, create a screenplay based on the board game Hungry Hungry Hippos.
Like the Queens Gambit but checkers would be hilarious
All I need to know is, does anyone say, “You sank my battleship!”?
Yes, they work in the line “they’re not gonna sink this battleship!”. When you’re committed to this absurd premise, you pretty much have to say it.
Ikr‽ That like Mike movie really painted him into a corner at an early age. His career still hasn’t escaped the type casting…
It’s shit but also entertaining. I kinda wanna watch that one again.
Yeah I’m not even sure why I watched it, it looks so bad. But it’s entertaining as heck, and well worth watching again
The Emoji Movie
Yes. You look at the title of the movie and you go, nope.
You just know there’s some producer out there who is salivating over minion merch.
It honestly was fine for a kids movie. The story was so generic that it was impossible to mess up and would work with any character/setting.
I was disappointed with how boring it was. They should’ve leaned way more into the emoji aspect.
Let me write the script. Id tackle it with the “anything goes” energy and it would be non-stop crazy nonsense.
Every Jurassic Park movie after the 2nd one.
A lot of the Movies Sony makes now. Morbius, Kraven, etc.
How dare you slight the cohesion and vision of the Whatever Sony Has The Rights To Cinematic Universe?
FWIW I much prefer Sony’s Spider-Man over Disney’s.
I’d like to add Uncharted to that, please.
I was playing Spider-Man 2, where Kraven is a major character, when this movie came out and I wasn’t even aware of it. It is also now available on Netflix.
i first heard of kraven from the game, spiderman instead of the movie, i think the GAME cutscenes are better than the movie.
Those are big budget? I thought they were great low budget movies
Morbius
Watching it flop, then become a meme, then the studio thinking it was attracting an audience because it was being mentioned a lot, to release it again only to have it flop again was just decadent.
…But then we would have seen the main character morb all over everyone!
Cats
What, you didn’t like the butthole cut?
I’d rather have my butthole cut
Mac, can a butthole cut in half?
Like tissue paper
The moment they announced Cats I knew it wasn’t going to work.
First, the story sucks. A bunch of cats prancing around and learning not to be a dick to that one cat.
Second, Cats is a spectacle. The reason you go see Cats in a theater is for the spectacle. Everyone is dressed up and dancing around. It’s meant to be an experience. You can’t translate that to film.
I support the idea of making a cats movie. Just not like that. Should have been more costumes then cgi. Youre audience is furrys… so do furrys…
Just watch the Andrew Lloyd Webber theather version. It’s by far the best.
not sure if it was “big budget” but Madame Web.
It was, essentially, a Spider-Man prequel that simply didn’t need to happen story wise. It introduced a bunch of characters from the comics that do indeed have Spider-Man like powers but in the film they simply “suggest” it. You had a villain whose entire purpose for doing what he did was he had a dream where said “spider people” killed him. You had Uncle Ben shoed in to simply say to the audience 'hey, HEY ASSHOLE! look…It’s a Spider Man Prequel!" and THAT was the ONLY connection to Peter Parker.
It’s like having a Star Wars Prequel where Uncle Owen is in it and he’s hanging out with a bunch of people who could potentially be Padawans but we’re not sure and they’re being hunted cause some random Sith had a dream that sure, they could potentially be Jedi one day. Now none of them actually are but they COULD be one day, just not in this movie.
I know your Star Wars comparison was to reinforce your point, but that does sound like a plausible plot for a legit Star Wars movie that I’d watch.
Waterworld. At the time the most expensive movie ever made and the most spectacular flop of all time.
But I like Waterworld.
I “think” John Carter beat it, but yeah.
John Carter suffered from an awful title.
“Princess of Mars,” would have resonated better with marketing. And is actually one of the book titles.
I agree, but Dianey was desperate to create a new franchise. It was their response to Iron Man and the anticipated success of the MCU.
Neither of those movies were really all that terrible. I enjoyed John Carter. But clearly they didn’t connect with audiences.
It’s the name and the power concept, all around bland and forgettable. Feel like that movie was a passion project of a book fan.
Absolutely, I enjoyed both for what they were, silly fantasy/adventure movies.
Yeah, I was upset they didnt continue John Carter, it was just a fun zany scifi movie. I think it was the advertising that killed it, but if they had stuck with it I think it could have done well.
I must be on my own. I know John Carter flopped phenomenally, but I really liked it. Thought it was a great movie. Was very annoyed when I found out that there may never be a 2nd. Even if there was, at this stage it is very unlikely to be the same cast. IIRC, a lot of the blame was on Disney marketing. But IDK about these things.
Don’t worry brother, I still go back and watch waterworld. I like oceanscapes and post apocalyptic settings. Esthetic can be enough for me.
It would have been a great Sci Fi miniseries, and eventually a movie. They didn’t prep the groundwork for the franchise and casted very poorly
I also liked it. But i think that it was completely miscast.
I did some digging and apparently Waterworld somehow broke even. I remember a lot of the hype around the film at the time was wanting to see if it was really as bad as people said it was.
You fucking take that back right now…
Ohh i forgot another one of my favorite. Ghost in the Shell live action. I love that movie because of Scarlett Johansson, but if you watch the original anime, everything just feels better, and the live action is simply unnecessary.
Avatar.
You mean, “Dances with Smurfs”?
It’s clearly ripping off Pocahontas, not Dances With Wolves.
Avatar at least had the excuse of existing to push 3D and mo-cap technology.
Not sure about Avatars 2-5…
There’s five of them???
There are 2 out already, Cameron is making till 5 right now.
Edit: Till 5 or more, I can’t remember.
2 completed and released with 3 more in the pipeline.
There’s like three or four already out. Or something. Whatever the actual number is, I’m always amazed.
Only two out so far. The third is arriving in December.
The third is arriving in December.
Lmao see? I had no idea even one sequel was out
Movie magic at it’s finest
There are sequels???
Avatar 2 came out in '22. Same basic plot, but the water effects are stunning.
3 is completed and will be out for Christmas. 4 and 5 are in the pipeline.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar:_Fire_and_Ash
(All the trailers on YouTube so far are AI Bullshit, be warned).
Avatar 4 and 5:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_4
“it is scheduled for release on December 21, 2029.[8][9] A sequel, Avatar 5, is in development and is expected to be released on December 19, 2031.”
Yeah, I watched it in a 3d cinema at the time and it was a great experience. Not the pocahontas story, but the cinematics. Avatar 2 was just shit. It’s like they’re pretending to be a real scifi franchise by building an entire world.
Avatar was always about being a visual feast, which Avatar 2 definitely succeeded in IMO. I like them for what they are, great popcorn flicks.
Same thing for the sequels. Here’s an article about it. Maybe it’s the passage of time, but I’d say 2 is much more visually stunning than 1
i love that the answer to “which one?” is “doesn’t matter, they suuuuuuck”
Alien pocahontas
Smurfgully
Incredible summary. 10/10.
At first I thought you meant the first Airbender movie. Which also fits the criteria here.
This but nickelodeons avatar live action remakes.
I love the first movie, everything after is just more of the same. It feels uninspired.
I mean yeah it was a shit film but it obviously had “business” being made because it was the highest grossing film ever for a while. I think it was the start of Holywood going out their way to crack the Chinese market (or at least the first time they did it successfully).
I know it’s just rehash Pocahontas but I enjoyed it. Suspend all that crap for a second and just enjoyed it
The Minecraft Movie
It _could _ have been great. But it ended up - like the Mario movie - being a formulaic piece of drek.
Both movies were loved by their target demographic: children
What, they dont make every movie for aging millennials to monetize their nostalgia? I call bullshit, see marvel.
My kids didn’t like it because there wasn’t enough Minecraft in it.
The question blocks weren’t good enough, eh?
I’m curious why you watched it
I thought both of them wouldn’t end up as clip art movies.
And I have kids.
I loved it. It was slop, but was good slop. I think it’s fun to watch with a friend.
